.410 as replacement for 12ga

Is the 410 a replacement for the 12 ga? Put the two shells next to each other. Maybe you didn’t need to ask?

The 410 is good for some stuff. The 12 is good for everything. If you don’t know how to shoot a rabbit or bird with a 12 ga without turning it inside out, ask that instead.

I’ve seen good trap shooters shoot 25’s with the 410 on the same days I couldn’t shoot a 25 with a 12ga. So maybe I should shut up.

I have hunted and killed everything from Dove to Deer with a 410 shotgun, growing up in a slug only state. It is a more capable cartridge than many people believe, but at the same time it is well short of what the other larger gauges are capable of. It will give the shooter less margin for minor mistakes for any use you would employ a shotgun.

Take both a 12 gauge and 410 shotgun to the range and shoot stuff with it, water jugs, wet phone books, watermelons, sheet of plywood or drywall. Even take them out hunting and see how well they do on legal game. It won't take too much of that before you get your own intuitive feel for how capable the 410 can be and how much more capable the 12 gauge is with the right ammunition.

I had always wanted a 410. About 10 years ago I came across a Mossberg 500 in that configuration. It was in nice shape so I bought it. I tried it for shooting trap and it barely did OK. I know I could have gotten better with it but the price of shells made me sell it. I want to say they were over twice the price of 12 gauge shells per box.

After learning that economic lesson I don't think you could talk me into anything but a 12 guage.

The price of 410 shells is why I got into reloading back in the early 90's. Even with current prices, it is still a lot cheaper to reload 410 shells than it is to buy factory ammo.

George P said:

a 410 could do in a pinch but, there are better alternatives.

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True, true and true. If someone stuck a .410 in my face I'd get real cooperative.
My preference for the 20 gauge (5 guns) as opposed to .410 (0 guns) doesn't mean I wouldn't happily use one if it were the gun available when needed. I've owned a couple .410's over the years and two things turned me off to them. #1 is the cost of the ammunition if hunting or shooting clays with them. #2 is availability of said ammunition in hard times. Other than that I liked them and felt like hunting with them was more of a challenge.
If they suit your purpose go for it just be sure and stock up on shells.

If you are serious about using a 410, it is worth getting into reloading do to price and availability of the ammo.

Mr. Mosin said:

how does the .410 fare as a replacement for the 12ga in regards to small game (rabbit, squirrel), medium sized game, and self defense (in a tight pinch) ?

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Not well at all IMO. A 20 gauge does though for anything but duck and geese.

12 gauge with buck or slugs is certainly the warriors choice for cqb for up to 50 yards or so. I can make my little 870 or a games 1100 or my Benelli m1 super 90 sing .A 12 gauge lupara double is nice too. 20 gauge Ithaca 37 short pumps with buck are nice and light and what I give younger and females in my house hold for defence, but they do kick ! Now I don't have a small pump or semi . 410 only doubles and o/u , but the 5 000 pellet loads are as discussed above effective. I use 4 000 2 1/2" .410 loads on my Public Defender as a bedside weapon, unbelievably destructive to 15 yards

Growing up, I killed everything with a 410 because that is all we had before my dad finally bought an 870 12ga. Killed rabbits, squirrels, quail, pheasants, possum, and coons. You just gotta know the gun's limitations. My 13 year old nephew became quite adept at trap with a 410. I could hit running rabbits, jumping squirrels and flying quail. Sold both of my 410s and this thread is steering me toward a new one!

Sniper66 said:

Growing up, I killed everything with a 410 because that is all we had before my dad finally bought an 870 12ga. Killed rabbits, squirrels, quail, pheasants, possum, and coons. You just gotta know the gun's limitations. My 13 year old nephew became quite adept at trap with a 410. I could hit running rabbits, jumping squirrels and flying quail. Sold both of my 410s and this thread is steering me toward a new one!

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I grew up hunting with my Dad's old Montgomery Ward Western Field single shot 410 since that is all we had. I took everything from rabbits, squirrels, quail, dove, and a few turkeys with that old single shot. I saved up my lawn mowing money and purchased as Mossberg 500 in 410 for a whopping $145 around 1985 and am still using that shotgun to this day.

I've notice 410 ga is a whole lot scarcer than 20 ga or 12 ga. And more expensive.

Mr. Mosin said:

So a .410 is perfectly capable, as long as one knows the limitations of their gun, and their personal limitations ?

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It absolutely is perfectly capable for all small game hunting and home defense uses as long as you know the limitations of the 410 and your shooting skills.

Skeet shooter stick to the 2 1/2" shells with a 1/2 ounce load while hunters do like the 3" shells with a 5/8 or 11/16 ounce load. I have not seen commercially available 3/4 ounce 3" loads but there is reloading data for them. I prefer the 3" shells when it comes to buckshot loads since most commercial 3" shells are loaded with 5 pellets of either 00 or 000 buckshot while the 2 1/2" shells only have 3 pellets.

I don't skeet shoot anymore so I just leave me MEC 600 Jr set up for reloading 3" hulls for both hunting and home defense.


And before all the naysayers jump in and tell you to get a 28 or 20 gauge or use reduced 12 gauge loads. If you want a 410, then by all means get one. The 410 will serve you well. Like with any type of firearm, practice makes you better.

Just ask the thousands of squirrels Ive shot with a lowly single shot 410. I prefer a 410 over 12 for squirrel hunting.

The 410 is what I used when I was 9 or 10 for doves, then I went to a 20 gauge and eventually 12 gauge. I would use one for that still, except I would rather pay less for 20 gauge. I have an old H&R single in 410 that I keep on my 4 wheeler in the woods when its "snakey". For self defense, it would be better than no gun at all.

FL-NC said:

For self defense, it would be better than no gun at all.

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5 pellets of 000 buckshot inside of an 8 inch circle at 15 yards is nothing to sneeze at. And that is out of a 14" cylinder bore barrel and a 18 1/2" cylinder bore barrel. And at 25 yards all the pellets kept a decent pattern and also more importantly they still penetrated the thick rubber belting that the Mo. Dept. of Conservation uses for target backing.

I did shoot a bird with a friend’s .410/.22 O/U in the late 60’s. I have no recollection of what make it was. We were hunting together and switched guns. I was using a single barrel break open 20 gauge Beretta my uncle brought back from Europe when passing through on his way home from Vietnam. We both nailed more birds with the 20. I wholeheartedly agree that a .410 is better than nothing, especially for defense. I also think HD is an area where the .410 is less handicapped than others-like wing shooting. I’d still rather have more room for error.

Another reason that I stick with my 410 shotguns is the fact that I am disabled. I have arthritis and fibromyalgia and messed up my rotator cuff this spring. I can't shoot 12 gauges anymore. And like I said that is pretty much all I have used for small game hunting since I was a little kid.

12Bravo20 said:

Another reason that I stick with my 410 shotguns is the fact that I am disabled. I have arthritis and fibromyalgia and messed up my rotator cuff this spring. I can't shoot 12 gauges anymore. And like I said that is pretty much all I have used for small game hunting since I was a little kid.

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There are countless variables that affect us. In your situation I’d use a .410 too.

As he aged, my older brother was finding that shooting squirrels through the eye with a .22 was getting harder, so he switched to his Stevens SxS .410. His shooting averaage went up immediately. As a bonus one day, a gobbler stepped out in front of him and he bagged him too. The mighty .410 has many uses.

Too long a story for here but I have a Spanish 410 double we ordered for a customer in the late sixties from Harden and Knight. It has 27" barrels, mod and full with 3" Remington 7 1/2 shot, selective trigger and ejectors and is man sized. I really like it and bought it out of our shop when the original owner traded it back in. That said, it isn't effective on much but stationary squirrels, rabbits, and doves when we get our sunflowers mowed in time and the cold hasn't hit.
It sure isn't a replacement for a twelve. I get it out a couple times a year during the dove season but otherwise leave it in the safe to assume queenly status. My late brother's Ithaca 100 20 gauge is a much better game gun.

I would think that you can do as much with a 410 as a 12 in shot instances.

When it comes to stopping a charging grizzly with a 1.25oz lead slug from a 12 gauge might be the correct choice.
Stopping a charging Grizzly with a 410 slug could be a monumental challange that very well might end poorly.

Busting geese on the wing?
Again youd have to really know the limits of your shotgun.

For most instances like shooting squirrels, rabbits and grouse the 410 should be quite effective.
My uncles related that hunting coyotes with the 410 was when viewed by percentages was not a very effective shotgun, the wounding ratio was high, but the dropping/killing a coyote ratio was pretty low.
Once they switched to the 12 gauge the numbers of wounded and lost coyotes dropped.

410 to shotguns is like flyfishing with fishing tackle using 4lb test leader
It takes firearms finess to a art form.

I like the 410 for small game. For self defense there are much better choices.

I will repeat what I have said in many threads, here and other forums; the .410 is not a beginner's shotgun, except to introduce the shotgun to kids, shooting at static targets. Think clay pigeons on a berm at 10-15 yards. Other than that, it is an expert's gun for small game at any but very close range. If one grows up shooting it a lot, it makes a good dove, quail, and woodcock gun. It makes Skeet or Sporting Clays a real challenge. Not the best choice for Trap or ducks. 3" .410 is good for close in HD, I consider 2 1/2" iffy, despite the fact I own a SxS derringer in 2 1/2" .410 & .45 LC. It is my 'get off me' at the door gun.
My son has my old .410 H&R, he keeps it for a 'bumping around the woods' gun.

By many the .357 mag. is considered the best all around pistol cal. for defense purposes. Comparing the numbers below I'd say the .410 compares quite favorably.
A .357 magnum cal. pistol slug weighs on the average 142gr. or about .32 ozs. and travels at approx. 1294 fps. with a muzzle energy of 528
The average .410 slug out of a 3" cartridge weights weighs 1/4 oz and travels at approx. 1800 fps with a muzzle energy of 788.
If you reduce the barrel length of the .410 it would seem the muzzle energy of these two would run neck and neck. From the looks of it the .410 might make a very good home defense weapon.