Project "Grip". Study in regards to firearm violence/suicide. Your input please.

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RALPH..

OK. I'll take your intentions at face value. Read my post above for where this comes from. Really want to reduce suicide. OK. Great. Here ya go. Any taxpayer funded "help" should have staff that has a history of truly caring about the job. And I'm going to name names. MODS, if you have to delete them, then do so. One example, Kitsap County Sexual Assault Center. Claims to help victims of rape through counseling and emotional support. This is one place my daughter attended. The "counselor" could not have been less interested. Absolutely no interest in helping my daughter. She was just a name on a list to justify a paycheck. Honestly, way more harm than good. My daughter had to drive withing 1/2 mile of her rapists home to get there. Passed the guy on the road a few times. I went with her and waited in the parking lot every time. She wouldn't go alone. Did the therapist care? Nope. I got the impression she was amused by the situation.

Volunteer rape support groups. What a joke. Pandering for "donations" the entire time, every time. Here's one for you...... I'm not a big believer in "support group therapy" never have been. But, I wasn't dealing with my girls death very well. I needed help, bad. I still do. So it was a huge step for me to reach out to a support group for the parents who have lost children to suicide. I opted for a nationally known .org with a good reputation. The Compassionate Friends. Hardly. I've sent several e-mails, I've called. No response, zero. No interest at all in providing what they claim. I couldn't even get on their email newsletter list. I couldn't even get on their spam list!!. Pathetic. So, I'll have to get through this alone.

Seems like you want to focus on gun related suicide. OK. pretty small group though. About the best you can do is to make education about suicide more available. Teach the warning signs of a potential suicide. Just keep in mind, locking up a gun to prevent it's use is only going to slow down an insignificant number of those who don't really want to die but have a moment of pure hopelessness. The few that would pick up a gun that was just laying there because it won't give then the time to think about it like pills or other methods.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, a lot of suicide attempts are truly a desperate cry for help from one who does't know where the help is. Those that really decided that that's the only answer, aren't going to be stopped short of epoxying them to the floor. You can't stop a determined suicide, can't really stop the not serious ones for hat matter. They just may screw it up bad enough to succeed. What we all can do is to help them not want to. I have no idea how to do that. I lost my baby girl 6 months ago. I don't have a clue what I could have done to make her not want to do it. I do know this. People who really, truly want and need help, DON'T GET IT!! Because that help does not exist. Just a bunch of useless feel good window dressing programs that made someone feel good that they did something. No real help. The funded "resources" only exist to get more funding. They don't offer any real help. Most of the "help" I was able to find for my daughter were nothing more that somebody's tax write off. No substance.

Look into the reasons that the survivors of attempts have stated as their reason for trying. Start there. Asking a forum of gun owners how to prevent suicides with a firearm is pretty futile to me. Locking up a gun because someone is possible suicidal is an exercise in stupidity if you don't recognize the signs of possible suicide. I didn't see it coming. Her so called therapist didn't see it. Even her very expensive psychiatrist didn't see it.

Here's a bit of irony for you. Daughter's expensive shrink called me and was telling me how great my daughter was doing. "turned a corner" "Has a good handle on it" "learning to cope" "healing" all the BS buzzwords. Later that day my daughter was found dead at the end of a rope. Been there since the night before. That entire conversation with the shrink took place while my baby was hanging from a rope. Even a very experienced and highly trained professional didn't have a clue. How could a bunch of everyday guys? We have every kind of person imaginable as members here. There may be some ideas here, but it won't have anything to do with the gun.

You figure out a way to stop that and there won't be a gun suicide problem. There isn't one now. It is a suicide problem. Period.
 
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Wow....tough crowd.

Regardless of how we feel about the linked survey/study and the relationship of firearms and suicide, there are two facts that cannot be argued.

1). Suicide is a leading cause of death in the United States. Second leading cause of death in individuals between the ages of 10-34. Courtesy of the NIMH.

2). Firearms are used in over 50% of total suicides as per 2018. About 56% of male suicides and about 32% of female. Courtesy of the CDC.

It definitely is a issue. Definitely concerns me. Suicide has touched many folks around me. Young lady that went to school with my oldest son just killed herself this week. There were low times in both of my son's lives when I thought suicide may be a possibility. I do not know if the removal of firearms would decrease attempts or decrease the amount of successful suicides. We need to find the real cause and a real solution for why folks feel death is better than life. We need to remove the cause of why folks attempt in the first place. I think the linked survey/study has good intentions as does the OP. While there could be concern for an ulterior motive in the survey/study, I highly doubt the OP has one.
 
Any police officer who worked patrol for any length of time can tell you the same stories I have. The solution to cutting the suicide rate is to find the things in our society that make people feel that is their only alternative and address them. The idea that if only someone who was suicidal didn't have access to a firearm they would still be with us is ludicrous. If they are determined to take their life they will find a way. The only thing we as a society can do is address those things that make people feel that is their only option. And quite frankly, some of those things can't be addressed because they are individual problems. No intervention program is going to stop people from taking their own lives. We had an absolutely terrible suicide here a few years back where a young man deliberately crashed head on into another car at a high rate of speed on US 51 taking two people with him. We know it was suicide because he left a note stating his intentions. It's estimated at a fairly high percentage of fatal single car accidents where there aren't any obvious contributing factors, bad weather, wet or icy pavement, alcohol or drugs, are actually suicides. Again it's something we will never know, but it's a plausible explanation for the car that crashed into the bridge abutment at 100 mph in good weather and the driver wasn't under the influence of anything or had a medical event like a heart attack or stroke.

Any approach that focuses on an inanimate object as the cause of human action is either biased against the possession and use of the inanimate object or is the product of an immature thought process.
 
The validity of a study usually centers around the integrity of the design, the quality of the data, and the accuracy of the analysis. Anecdotal accounts and value statements, while perhaps useful in fleshing out the resulting literature, tend to distort study findings.

I think the OP's motives are good, and the study objectives of reducing suicide are laudable, but we have seen many studies become self fulfilling by poor design, sampling, uniformity and bias in the funding entity or mechanism. We tend to distrust these projects because it is so tempting and popular to use parts of the analysis to advance someone's pet theories. Many of the comments above are borne of this disillusionment.

I'll go out on a limb and posit that everyone here wants to reduce or eliminate suicides, attempted suicides and suicidal ideation. That's something that will require intensive effort long before the method of suicide is a factor. A focus on the tools used in suicide or attempted suicide does not to me seem to address the central issue, and we as a society can't seem to deal effectively with death and the drive to self-destruct. Focus on tools harkens back to the padded cell, clockwork orange and cuckoo's nest. Yes, we can protect someone from themselves in most instances with a frontal lobotomy, but thank heavens that is not acceptable in this day and age.

How many accounts have we read of people being killed while cleaning a gun? Does anyone believe the data on suicide is accurate? Until we get accurate information based upon uniform reports free from the human desire to spare the survivors, we can't even accurately describe the breadth of the problem, much less deal with the stakes and social cost.

This study seems to suggest the simple answer of eliminating firearms either by banning them or draconian lockup measures, but if that is the route to safety, knives, poisons, automobiles, access to tall structures, aircraft and water in sufficient quantities must also be restricted. However noble the intent of the USA researchers, starting at the back end of the process has it all wrong. The study and determination of what make people want to kill themselves is far more pressing and likely to be productive than restricting a specific tool that is used for this purpose.

OP, I'm sorry I don't have answers for these researchers. I would recommend beginning the process by improving data collection, uniformity and accuracy universally, but that doesn't seem to be on the table or in the cards.
 
entropy said:
Look 'em up. I'm not doing your research for you. I did enough of that in High School and College.
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You questioned someone's integrity because they didn't use FBI or DOJ statistics on gun suicides? Then you refuse to produce data by the FBI or DOJ to show that the 50% statistic is wrong?

The CDC is the agency which collects such data and the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention notes this. If you google anything on suicide by firearm it is listed at 50% or more.

The FBI and the DOJ are law enforcement agencies. They do collect some data on suicides but it is limited to the law enforcement community. I cannot find anywhere where they collect data on all suicides or suicide attempts. They do however collect meticulous data on homicides which is expected because they are law enforcement.

If you can point to something then please do so! Otherwise you are simply blowing smoke and being dishonest and doing exactly what the left does by propagating lies.

Believe me. If you can show the suicide rate with firearms is less then the 50% mark then show me because that is something I can use. Otherwise, if anyone else can confirm what entropy is stating then I'd appreciate it because I cannot find anything listing it less than 50%.

God Bless,
Ralph
 
"That is the point in having the "community advisory board". They want input from people who live in neighborhoods most affected by violence."

Unfortunately, many of the people who live in such neighborhoods will view the inanimate object as the problem...far easier than looking at the individuals who commit violent crimes.

oh, and Vern Humphrey...well said.
 
I have been volunteering with a local suicide prevention group for about 4 years. The group focuses on education for the general public: Risk Factors, Warning Signs, etc. I'm one of the trainers.

The issue with firearm usage with regards to suicide is the degree of lethality. People who attempt suicide with a firearm rarely survive. And men overwhelmingly pick up a firearm for a suicide attempt as compared to women. While suicides are often planned for a considerable amount of time, research suggests the decision to actually take action (implement the plan) is a "snap" decision. If the selected means is a firearm there is a low survival rate.

The data does not suggest that someone will find a way to kill themselves no matter what. Approximately 90% of people who attempt suicide and survive, AND THEN get the right mental health help, do not end up killing themselves. The "AND THEN get the right mental health help" is a huge problem, in that access to good mental health services is so difficult given provider availability, insurance issues, etc.

Where I hope we're able to go as a society is a model like what has evolved with regards to drinking and driving. No one (that I know) claims that someone who has gotten drunk should have their driver's license permanently taken away from them. But hopefully when we see a loved one or a friend that has had too much to drink we'd encourage them to not drive. And we might even grab their keys.....until they've sobered up. In my opinion this model works well when it comes to firearms and mental health crisis. If someone is going through a mental health crisis hopefully we can realize them accessing their guns might not be the best for their well being right now. But when the crisis subsides they are "safe to drive" (shoot) again. It's not really different from other safety measures houses with suicidal individuals will take: Families will lock up their kitchen knives and medications when someone in the home is going through a mental health crisis.
 
otisrush said:
Where I hope we're able to go as a society is a model like what has evolved with regards to drinking and driving. No one (that I know) claims that someone who has gotten drunk should have their driver's license permanently taken away from them.
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We already have that model. People who attempt suicide and are involuntarily admitted to a mental health facility lose their RKBA. Federal law......I have a friend who was a great shooter who was dealing with PTSD who attempted suicide, failed and is now a federally prohibited person.
 
Thanks. I'm not familiar with that type of situation (the "involuntary admission" part). I'll research it. I want to be sure I understand those types of scenarios.

Very sorry to hear your friend is now a prohibited person.
 
Check under 18 U.S.C.922 (d). It’s been the law of the land since 1968. It was part of the Gun Control Act of 1968.
 
I'm not an attorney nor did I do REALLY deep research - but it looks like the critical step is to be adjudicated with mental health issue. This is what makes someone prohibited from a RKBA perspective if I understand correctly what I've read..

I don't know numbers, but I would presume there are a lot of people who survive suicide attempts who are not adjudicated as mentally defective or mentally deficient. In fact, I think I know people who fall into that category. (I for sure know people who have attempted suicide and survived. And I'm virtually positive they do not have any sort of mental health adjudication.)

The point I'm trying to make is helping to keep someone safe from firearms when in crisis prior to an attempt.
 
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Ralph III, since suicide seems to be the main focus of a LOT of the posts so far, and I don't (luckily) have much experience in that area, I'll touch on accidental shootings. I've taught Hunter Education for over 26 years and we ALWAYS go over hunting accident statistics in our classes (an important part of the curriculum). Most states track these stats and have them available to the public. They show a huge drop in hunting accidents after Hunter Education programs became a prerequisite for obtaining a hunting license. I'm NOT advocating for mandatory education as a prerequisite for gun ownership. I'm just pointing out that there are statistics available that clearly show a decline in accidental shootings (specific to hunting, obviously) as a result of education. Just another "arrow" in your quiver of ways to reduce accidental shootings.

BTW, to those who've already posted their decisions to demystify the curiosity of children with regards to firearms, I totally agree. It has worked in my small corner of the world.
 
otisrush said:
I'm not an attorney nor did I do REALLY deep research - but it looks like the critical step is to be adjudicated with mental health issue. This is what makes someone prohibited from a RKBA perspective if I understand correctly what I've read..
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It’s adjudicated by a court or admitted to a mental institution. In fact this prohibition keeps many people from seeking mental health care. I have seen people who were in crisis situations who refused to talk to counselors because it would mean they could never go hunting again.

Do you support “red flag” laws? If so, who do you think should decide if someone is danger to himself or others? What kind of evidence should be admitted? Under what circumstances should a family member or a peace officer be permitted to compel a person to get mental health treatment.

I’ve done involuntary committals on people who have attempted suicide. It is a long process and it needs to be to protect the people from being abused by the system.

Here it starts with a trip to the ER where a physician examines the person and then calls for a mental health professional, the local community resource center usually sends a counselor to the ER. If the ER physician and the counselor concur the hunt for a bed in a mental health ward begins. Many facilities will not take a patient if they have street drugs in their system. Then they go to jail where they get no mental health care until their system is clear of the street drugs and then they go to a mental health facility or if they don’t have street drugs in their system or a bed is found for them at a mental health facility that will take then with drugs in their system (this varies by state) they get a hearing after 96 hours to decide if they should continue to be hospitalized. In my experience by this time most patients had been on medication long enough that they were released to home. Then without anyone to monitor their meds and continue the care they found themselves right back in a crisis situation. We had one woman who went through this cycle many times.

The fact of the matter is that the mental health care system in the US is broken and it’s been broken for decades. It seems to me that people are attempting to fix the inadequacies of our mental health care system by focusing on the tools people use to harm themselves.

I’m not a doctor or a lawyer just a retired first responder who had to deal with these issues at the user level.

It seems to me that we are talking about the wrong problem. The problem isn’t access to guns, knives, lamp cords or Tylenol, the problem is a mental health care system that isn’t funded, staffed or equipped to do the job we are asking it to do.
 
Jeff White said:
<Lots of good info.>
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You provide a perspective that is very helpful. I definitely concur re: a failed mental health system. I've heard stories of people being discharged following a 72 hour hold with a follow-up plan that will include recommendation for further Psychological / Psychiatric care - and then the wait to see a Psychiatrist will be 8 months. Or someone is so mentally ill they literally have a hard time getting out of bed or deciding what to cook for dinner - yet to get their meds they have to fill out insurance forms or, even worse, deal with Medicaid. There's no way someone will be able to navigate tasks like that if they mentally can't handle getting out of bed.

Thanks for the info.
 
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Ohen Cepel said:
I would look at the high crime areas and see what can be addressed their as a high % of the firearms deaths are in 10 or less counties. Why and how can you address that?
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IMO this hits the nail on the head. Absent those 10 counties gun assaults and homicides in the U.S. are a very small number. But for the self-styled elites, taking guns away from the millions of law-abiding citizens who own them and have never and will never use them to assault or murder anyone is a great solution because they get to assert power that way. It also means they don't have to look into, much less admit, how the policies enacted by their predecessor elites caused the social breakdown in those 10 counties that is the real reason for the violence there.
 
Ralph III said:
Hello Everyone. I'm the OP, btw.

Now let's cut through some of the Bull Sheet!

Ok, now that I've got your attention let me clarify a few things.

1. I am an avid supporter of the 2nd Amendment and have been my entire life. It's how my Dad, who served in the Korean war (Navy) and start up of the Vietnam war (Army) raised me. He started taking me hunting when I was 7 years old and I loved every thing about it, especially the times I spent with him and other close family/friends. I belong to this gun forum, KahrTalk.com, RugerForum.net, WaltherForums.com, BersaChat.com MSGO.com and a few others. You can check out any of my posts on those forums under Ralph III.

So why do I belong to those forums and others? Because I have firearms relevant to those forums and when I was attempting to settle on a ccw gun I thought it prudent to get first hand feedback. I belong to the MS forum because I grew up in Ms. and I have a lifetime hunting and fishing license for the state. So it's nice to converse with locals as I'd call them.

2. I am a conservative. A Reagan conservative and a staunch Trump supporter despite his blowing the re-election bid.

3. The USA study is going to take place no matter if you or I participate, period! I however saw it as an opportunity to be involved with the direction of the study however and I intend to insure the perspective of legal gun owners is represented! Period and end of story! That is my goal and that is in fact what the college is asking for.

"University of South Alabama faculty researchers have received a $1.8 million federal grant to collaborate with gun owners in devising strategies to reduce injury and death" That is the first sentence folks and the stated goal because and to continue.

"Right now, there is a communication gap between gun owners and users and the people who are working to prevent suicides, homicides and assaults......Project GRIP wants to connect everyone's voices to create solutions that work to prevent deaths and save lives".

They are absolutely correct. There is and has been a communication gap BECAUSE the point of view of gun owners is rarely considered or put at the forefront! Nor are the benefits of gun ownership and it's place in preventing crimes ever stressed by studies or the main stream media. Instead, all we get and hear is that guns are bad and they should be banned. I think every law abiding citizen should learn how to use firearms and then carry one for self protection. I think law abiding gun owners should also be afforded protections under the law when they intervene to stop a crime with their weapon. I truly believe you'd see a drastic reduction in crime with such.

Ok, I've been asked to participate in a prominent fashion as the goal is to have the gun owners help set the agenda and devise questions and topics which should be addressed. So I'd appreciate some help and in getting your opinions. A few responders have already offered some insight and experiences so I'd like to follow up with them, such as herwalther who has dealt with suicides with military personnel. That really hits home for me as my family has a long history of service to our nation. However, if I am wording things improperly then please point out specific instances so I can change my wording or tone? I don't know what some of you are talking about.....

4. My second goal is as the project GRIP purports and desires to accomplish. That is to some how reduce firearm injuries. I think more legal gun owners is one major solution because it is the greatest deterrent to stopping criminals with guns. The issue of suicides is a difficult subject though and I see it as a different subject. However, if you had someone who is suicidal in your family you'd surely remove or lock up your firearm wouldn't you? That IS NOT a solution though as I see it. It is simply a short term precaution. Recognizing and helping people in depression should be the greatest goal as it is a solution. Anyhow, your thoughts are most helpful here.

I have to go now so I do apologize for any typo errors. Again, I appreciate your help.

Thanks,
Ralph
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Just want to say, I think the critical comments are NOT criticizing YOUR bona fides, rather the parameters of the study itself seem to the critics to have been determined in order to lead to the usual "let's ban guns" conclusion. If your participation will help avoid that, that would be fantastic.
 
Ralph III said:
In regards to veterans or elderly people who are alone. Beyond getting them help if needed what about getting them a pet? Maybe they see the pet as being dependent on them and consequently a reason to live? We show a lot of affection for our pets, so maybe that would be enough in some instances to save someone from attempting suicide?
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This is a great idea IMO. And dogs in particular give unconditional love. :)
 
Tinman357 said:
RALPH..

OK. I'll take your intentions at face value. Read my post above for where this comes from. Really want to reduce suicide. OK. Great. Here ya go. Any taxpayer funded "help" should have staff that has a history of truly caring about the job. And I'm going to name names. MODS, if you have to delete them, then do so. One example, Kitsap County Sexual Assault Center. Claims to help victims of rape through counseling and emotional support. This is one place my daughter attended. The "counselor" could not have been less interested. Absolutely no interest in helping my daughter. She was just a name on a list to justify a paycheck. Honestly, way more harm than good. My daughter had to drive withing 1/2 mile of her rapists home to get there. Passed the guy on the road a few times. I went with her and waited in the parking lot every time. She wouldn't go alone. Did the therapist care? Nope. I got the impression she was amused by the situation.

Volunteer rape support groups. What a joke. Pandering for "donations" the entire time, every time. Here's one for you...... I'm not a big believer in "support group therapy" never have been. But, I wasn't dealing with my girls death very well. I needed help, bad. I still do. So it was a huge step for me to reach out to a support group for the parents who have lost children to suicide. I opted for a nationally known .org with a good reputation. The Compassionate Friends. Hardly. I've sent several e-mails, I've called. No response, zero. No interest at all in providing what they claim. I couldn't even get on their email newsletter list. I couldn't even get on their spam list!!. Pathetic. So, I'll have to get through this alone.

Seems like you want to focus on gun related suicide. OK. pretty small group though. About the best you can do is to make education about suicide more available. Teach the warning signs of a potential suicide. Just keep in mind, locking up a gun to prevent it's use is only going to slow down an insignificant number of those who don't really want to die but have a moment of pure hopelessness. The few that would pick up a gun that was just laying there because it won't give then the time to think about it like pills or other methods.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, a lot of suicide attempts are truly a desperate cry for help from one who does't know where the help is. Those that really decided that that's the only answer, aren't going to be stopped short of epoxying them to the floor. You can't stop a determined suicide, can't really stop the not serious ones for hat matter. They just may screw it up bad enough to succeed. What we all can do is to help them not want to. I have no idea how to do that. I lost my baby girl 6 months ago. I don't have a clue what I could have done to make her not want to do it. I do know this. People who really, truly want and need help, DON'T GET IT!! Because that help does not exist. Just a bunch of useless feel good window dressing programs that made someone feel good that they did something. No real help. The funded "resources" only exist to get more funding. They don't offer any real help. Most of the "help" I was able to find for my daughter were nothing more that somebody's tax write off. No substance.

Look into the reasons that the survivors of attempts have stated as their reason for trying. Start there. Asking a forum of gun owners how to prevent suicides with a firearm is pretty futile to me. Locking up a gun because someone is possible suicidal is an exercise in stupidity if you don't recognize the signs of possible suicide. I didn't see it coming. Her so called therapist didn't see it. Even her very expensive psychiatrist didn't see it.

Here's a bit of irony for you. Daughter's expensive shrink called me and was telling me how great my daughter was doing. "turned a corner" "Has a good handle on it" "learning to cope" "healing" all the BS buzzwords. Later that day my daughter was found dead at the end of a rope. Been there since the night before. That entire conversation with the shrink took place while my baby was hanging from a rope. Even a very experienced and highly trained professional didn't have a clue. How could a bunch of everyday guys? We have every kind of person imaginable as members here. There may be some ideas here, but it won't have anything to do with the gun.

You figure out a way to stop that and there won't be a gun suicide problem. There isn't one now. It is a suicide problem. Period.
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Tinman. I've been slow reading some of the posts and I just read yours. I don't even know where to begin other than to say what you went through absolutely breaks my heart. We have two daughters and I cannot even imagine what you are going through. They say there is no greater loss than losing a child and I can see that.

I would like to say a few things.

**I've acknowledged that addressing suicide by firearm, which is what the study desired to do, has been extremely challenging for me because there are just to many unknowns. So I was having great difficulty trying to form a concise opinion on the specific subject. It just kept coming back to one point for me; the means is not really so important as the fact someone chose to kill themself. So we truly need to focus on the people and not the means which is just a distraction. Your post and several others has been instrumental in reaffirming that for me and I will be stressing this.

**The study is in regards to firearms and homicides/suicides with a desire to work closely with gun owners in devising legitimate strategies that also do not infringe upon our 2nd amendment rights. So I felt communicating in the gun forums would be a fantastic method because I could quickly and easily garnish a lot of opinions. The subject of homicide is fairly straight forward and this is a great place to get opinions on that subject. The subject of suicide however is difficult and there probably are better forums that could be contacted versus this one in regards. I don't belong to any such survivor type forums though but I will strongly suggest they look into that or I may myself. Your opinion and a few others in regards to suicide has been valuable and sufficient for what my input will be however.

Tinman are you seeking counseling even if through friendship? Have you reached out to your Church group or religious leaders? Man I am going to be praying for you. I am so sorry for your loss but know that God obviously Blessed you with a wonderful daughter even though her life was cut short. As hard as it is to lose her just remember the Blessing she was. So you must live on and make her proud of you and whatever endeavors you undertake. Take care brother and contact me via PM if you want to.

I am going to be copying your post and sending that to the professors because I want them to see it from a very personal aspect and not just some study with numbers. I will say, their intentions to me do seem genuine irrespective of what a few on this forum may think. Otherwise, that is the direction I will be attempting to steer it. May I ask your daughters name?

God Bless,
Ralph
 
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RALPH.
Thank you and I am glad that you can't imagine what it's like. I hope you never do. This is quickly getting off topic for this forum and I have a lot to say.
If the MODS leave it open, I'm sure you would get tons of good info but very little would be gun related.

This site and others are under attack right now and your original post is a bit suspiscious. If you are doing as you say, I'll PM you my phone # and we can discuss this off this platform.

In my opinion guns are used so often besause it's quick, relatively painless and there is no time to think and change your mind after the trigger is pulled.

Suicide is a mental health issue. The gun has nothing to do with it.
 
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Tinman357 said:
RALPH.
Thank you and I am glad that you can't imagine what it's like. I hope you never do. This is quickly getting off topic for this forum and I have a lot to say.
If the MODS leave it open, I'm sure you would get tons of good info but very little would be gun related.

This site and others are under attack right now and your original post is a bit suspiscious. If you are doing as you say, I'll PM you my phone # and we can discuss this off this platform.

In my opinion guns are used so often besause it's quick, relatively painless and there is no time to think and change your mind after the trigger is pulled.

Suicide is a mental health issue. The gun has nothing to do with it.
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Hey Tinman,

Everyone, please keep one thing in mind. I am not conducting the study, nor do I have qualifications to do such whatsoever! I work at a tourist attraction on the Gulf Coast as the supervisor of the maintenance department. This study was brought to my attention though because I am a firearm and outdoor enthusiast. Consequently, I have simply been asked to help with the project.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THIS POINT IS IMPORTANT AND I WISH EVERYONE TO UNDERSTAND.

Since I agreed to be part of this project I want to make sure it goes in the proper direction! I cannot emphasize this enough. That is all I am trying to do and that was the point of my original post and coming here.

I told Dr. Mehari that I was going to send her a word document "denoting my stance on these issues" and that is in fact what my original post here is. It is an unfinished and brief outline of the document that I am trying to compose. I wanted to get other gun owners opinions and yours, so that I could be more concise with my own opinions and gun owners in general. The whole point of my feeling compelled to send her something this early on is because I had many of the same concerns which has been expressed here.

She has been very enthusiastic and appreciative of the time I have invested already. If my original post is "suspicious" please tell me why so I can further tweak it. One thing I am going to stress for sure is that placing to much focus on guns is a general distraction. The focus must be on the individual and not the means. You and others helped me form that concise opinion.

You can forward your email to me if you like. I am working with Ohen already. His credentials are amazing and he is truly the type of people they need on such a project. I'd like to hear from you though if you feel it may help me or better express your views.

Take care,
Ralph
 
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