Was this a good buy?

Traded something worth $35 for that 50 round box of ammo? Seems like a good price for the ongoing gun-demic.

What I want to see is a pic of this revolver you inherited.

Since 38. Special is among the unobtainable currently, I would say you got a good deal.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/38-spl-federal-no-38f-td-110-grain-value.752318/

It’s higher pressure than +P ammo, or +P+, made for use in magnum revolvers for police and federal agencies. Be careful with that Model 10.

Any 38 you can find right now is probably worth it. That being said, it's not ideal for a Model 10. The revolver is sighted in for 158gr bullets, which is as heavy as 38s get, and your box of 110s are as light as 38s get. Light bullets shoot low, and your revolver was sighted in for the highest load.

At self defense ranges, where your target is a man's torso and the distance is <30 feet, it's not going to matter. But keep that in mind if you shoot it on paper.

The 110s were designed as a snub-nose load. Hollow points require a minimum speed to expand. 38's not a fast round to start with, and a 2" barrel robs even more speed from it. 158 HPs of the day wouldn't mushroom from a short barrel and would just behave like normal FMJs. 110 bullets can be driven faster than 158s for the same powder charge, and those would clear the velocity threshold needed to open up.

No one said don't shoot it. They said don't shoot that box of ammo you got through it. And for what it's worth I think that's a neat old gun, and the connection to your grandfather makes it that much better. If you keep it, please don't go to some local gun smith and ask them to re-blue it. All the rust and blotches are character lines and marks. It tells the story of what that old revolver has been through. Clean it thoroughly, protect it from further rust and deterioration, and enjoy it.

Were it me I would make sure it was in safe, working order, then I'd trade that box of ammo for some standard pressure 158g LRN ammo and shoot that old work horse.

YMMV,
Dave

gobsauce said:

Might just keep it just to keep it. Might sell it, who knows. But knowing this, definitely won't shoot it.

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It doesn’t say +P or +P+ simply because it was manufactured before +P became a standard in 1981. If your Model 10 was made after that I probably wouldn’t worry about 1 box. Those rounds were used in the J Frame Model 640. But if it’s an older gun I would be a bit more careful. They were just made during a time when new bullets and ammo were evolving. I have heard some say that they even vary and newer versions of that round are much tamer than the originals. Just from a time with few standards. Check the headstamp, I bet they don’t even say .38 Special in them.

As a trade item that box is probably worth two boxes of .38 target ammo to a guy with a .357 for which they were mostly meant to be used in.

gobsauce said:

I don't have another .38, don't plan on getting anytime soon. Are any of y'all interested? I myself wouldn't shoot it because of what y'all said.

The revolver is '76 i think.. '72? It's one of those.

It says "F C / 82"

View attachment 985131

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Yea, just looked at the pictures, get some standard pressure ammo, 158 Semi Wadcutter, Round Nose Lead, Full Metal Jacket and enjoy the gun for many more years. It has character! That 82 on the cartridge s the year or manufacture, FC for Federal Cartridge, like I said, no caliber stamp.

FYI - according to S&W, any K frame .38 Special made with a model number (10, 15, 67, etc. ) are +p rated, even though that designation wasn’t standardized until later.

gobsauce said:

I don't have another .38, don't plan on getting anytime soon. Are any of y'all interested? I myself wouldn't shoot it because of what y'all said.

The revolver is '76 i think.. '72? It's one of those.

It says "F C / 82"

View attachment 985131

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I'll give the best reason not to use that ammo in your inherited revolver.

That ammo you have is Federal's version of the "Treasury Load". It was somewhat a political project too. The 70s saw the 357 magnum as the premier LE caliber. However, certain factions were horrified to hear the police were using MAGNUMs!

The Treasury Dept asked manufacturers to come up with something to come near the performance of the 357 but in a 38. The resulting ammo was the Treasury Load. It pushed that 110 gr bullet to 1100 fps or better in a 4". It did it by raising the pressure. Standard 38s are about 18000 psi, +P about 20,000, and +P+ over 20,000. That ammo produces about 24 000 psi.

I first saw Treasury loads in 1978. We were told they were safe to use in a jframe. I didn't believe that. I used them in a modern k frame 38 but mostly in a 357 in which they are safe to use.

I've seen j frames come apart after moderate use of Treasury loads. My agency quit ordering them and told us to use up remaining stocks in 357s.

The government rotates ammo contracts. The first t-loads I used were headstamped WCC 78. By 1980 Federal was in the game.

The loads proved devastating on a soft target but had little penetrating power.

SHOOT THOSE ONLY IN A 357. THATS SAFE.

It’s 31 years old, not ancient ammo, but aging. The box looks like it’s been stored well and not like it was left in a Las Vegas storage shed for three decades. I’ve seen those loads, and what was said about them being hot is true. I’d have no issues shooting it in a .357 or even a .38/44 heavy duty revolver... not in an older K frame.

As for your older smith, I’d do like wcwhitey suggested and try to swap for standard pressure .38’s instead. I have a 1945-era S&W M&P .38 that is a bit older but looks like yours, in that oldie I’d keep it mild.

Stay safe.

GRIZ22 said:

I'll give the best reason not to use that ammo in your inherited revolver.

That ammo you have is Federal's version of the "Treasury Load". It was somewhat a political project too. The 70s saw the 357 magnum as the premier LE caliber. However, certain factions were horrified to hear the police were using MAGNUMs!

The Treasury Dept asked manufacturers to come up with something to come near the performance of the 357 but in a 38. The resulting ammo was the Treasury Load. It pushed that 110 gr bullet to 1100 fps or better in a 4". It did it by raising the pressure. Standard 38s are about 18000 psi, +P about 20,000, and +P+ over 20,000. That ammo produces about 24 000 psi.

I first saw Treasury loads in 1978. We were told they were safe to use in a jframe. I didn't believe that. I used them in a modern k frame 38 but mostly in a 357 in which they are safe to use.

I've seen j frames come apart after moderate use of Treasury loads. My agency quit ordering them and told us to use up remaining stocks in 357s.

The government rotates ammo contracts. The first t-loads I used were headstamped WCC 78. By 1980 Federal was in the game.

The loads proved devastating on a soft target but had little penetrating power.

SHOOT THOSE ONLY IN A 357. THATS SAFE.[/QUOTE

V

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Very well explained!

@gobsauce you did the right thing asking about that ammo. Years ago someone gave me a beat up box of those. I decided to pull the bullets and reuse the brass after I fired one round. I honestly thought something was wrong with the ammo. I shot it from a Ruger Vaquero so no problem there. A friend of mine who was a Sheriff’s Deputy told me pretty much what @GRIZ22 said above.

I will join those that say not to shoot that ammo in your Grandad’s model 10.

Mosin Bubba writes:

The revolver is sighted in for 158gr bullets, which is as heavy as 38s get, and your box of 110s are as light as 38s get. Light bullets shoot low, and your revolver was sighted in for the highest load.

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I still have five or six rounds left of the service ammunition I was issued my first day on the job in 1987. They're .38 Special +P, 95-grain Silvertip HPs.

I found out just before final qualifications how low they shoot. We had shot thousands of rounds of 158-grain training stuff (I was using my issued Model 67), and I noticed that I had enough service ammo to shoot the last "practice" qualifier with it before shooting for actual scores, for which service ammo was required. My score, and my shots, fell very low real quickly, requiring some fast Kentucky elevation. I was glad I did that, as the difference was significant, and I was able to adjust in time for the "real" shoots.

Run it hoss. That one box won't hurt a S&W in good mechanical function and sound construction.

Here's a recent article on the Treasury Load;
https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/38-special-treasury-load/389102

fxvr5 said:

Here's a recent article on the Treasury Load;
https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/38-special-treasury-load/389102

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This article references the FBI 38 special load. My research says they adopted this load in 1972. I don't think this was development of a completely new loading as the Treasury Load was. It was the FBI adopting an existing commercial 38 load.

I remember in the early 70s Winchester made a 158 LSWCHP in 38 that was headstamped and marked on the box as "high velocity". This was the term the ammo manufacturers used to identify higher pressure ammo before +P and +P+ designation was adopted. The code on the box has "MS" in it. I read somewhere that the MS was supposed to denote manstopper.

It was later on in the 70s the FBI did their first gel tests. IIRC the winner in 38 was the Norma 110 JHP. Norma didn't use the high velocity designation but it was. The FBI rated this ammo better than any load in any caliber IIRC. I didn't believe this and apparently neither did the FBI as they didn't adopt this load. I remember Remington making a 95gr JHP load in the 70s.

Keep in mind this quest for high performance ammo was caused by the modern father of all of it and that was Lee Jurras and Super Vel. The first time I saw Super Vel was in Vietnam. A new lieutenant had brought over a S&W Model 19 and several boxes of Super Vel.

Super Vel, although sold at a premium price, became the sweetheart duty load for a lot of LEOs in the late 60s and early 70s. All the big boys wanted a piece of this action. They got it ultimately putting Super Vel out of business in the process.

MedWheeler said:

Mosin Bubba writes:



I still have five or six rounds left of the service ammunition I was issued my first day on the job in 1987. They're .38 Special +P, 95-grain Silvertip HPs.

I found out just before final qualifications how low they shoot. We had shot thousands of rounds of 158-grain training stuff (I was using my issued Model 67), and I noticed that I had enough service ammo to shoot the last "practice" qualifier with it before shooting for actual scores, for which service ammo was required. My score, and my shots, fell very low real quickly, requiring some fast Kentucky elevation. I was glad I did that, as the difference was significant, and I was able to adjust in time for the "real" shoots.

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95 grain! I've never heard of 38s that light before.

Mosin Bubba said:

95 grain! I've never heard of 38s that light before.

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And now there is a 90 grain 38 Spl load;
https://supervelammunition.com/38-special-p-super-snub-90-gr-jhp-20-count-box/
reviewed: https://www.shootingillustrated.com...review-super-vel-38-special-plusp-ammunition/

Depends on how bad you want it.