Biden to target 'ghost guns,' stabilizing braces in new gun control actions

Status
Not open for further replies.
Saying that the current check system has faults just leads to the argument that it gets tightened up. Isn't that simple to see. It's not an argument to get rid of it, if that is what folks are making.

It is a problem with progun folks. They see an antigun policy and suggest - it doesn't work well, so get rid of it. The antigun folks say - fix it.

It is similar to the folks saying that a lever gun can shoot as many as a semi EBR, there is no evidence that the AWB affected crime rates.

So the response is to get rid of the lever guns and truly come after all semis. I heard this from their experts at a DOJ panel way back

And that is the problem. Violent crime is the justification for a policy that any thinking person knows will not affect violent crime whatsoever. When it doesn't reduce violent crime, the solution is always to expand the policy into more areas that will not reduce violent crime.

Instead of making the argument: braces are a workaround to allow people to acquire SBR's without going through the (ridiculous, pointless, expensive) official process, so they should be illegal. The argument should be, if we reduce the number of SBR's available to the public, it would have X impact on violent crime, and that justifies the policy of making private property illegal which we have a history of allowing the manufacture, marketing and ownership of. That argument has not been made, by anyone, at any time.

If there's no beneficial justification for altering the status quo, then leave things alone, and do not further restrict law-abiding citizens' civil rights.
 
I don't mind the b/r check, in fact, I like not being able to be likely conned into selling a gun to a prohibited person. We're in 2021, we should have accurate information available to whoever grants the permission to buy, it shouldn't take days. If there is a hurdle preventing a fast background check, let's clear that out of the way.

That is one problem!!!

Permission to buy? Who grants permission to buy a tool? Why do we need permission? I accept the fact that humans can be evil people. Evil and bad humans exist no matter what I think I can do about it.

I do not believe that we can legislate morality or make laws to stamp out evil in this world.
 
The opposition is in part symbolic of political totems and thus immune to arguments. The goal is to eliminate all but clearly sporting guns (Uncle Dick's deer blind rifle and some duck guns). That's why the sporting argument for the RKBA is useless. I have to come to the view that only a Scotus decision that clearly articulates that the 2nd is for SD, defense against tyranny and less likely foreign invasion. That such a decision clearly indicates that SD does not support weapons and mag bans because 5 is enough. That such a decision or decisions clearly allow the possession and the carry of weapons outside the home for law abiding citizens.

I have some views about what to carry outside the home but the basic right should be affirmed. How determine someone is law abiding and not adjudicated to be a risk due to psychiatric disorder can be studied but regulations cannot be made to deliberately block the right.

Such decision or decisions would wash away the SBR, suppressor, AWBs, mag limits, etc. Will it happen - yeah, in some alternate universe.
 
Is there any pressure we can put on SCOTUS to hear more 2A arguments? Every email GOA sends out with an act now, I do them. Though when they did these for bump stocks to the ATF, I recall the ATF disregarded these because they were sent essentially thousands of the same argument instead of more unique arguments.

There's a narrow margin in both chambers, just have to convince a few on one side to help us out. If only pro-2A stuff could've been buried in the middle of an omnibus package.
 
Laws and regs only hurt the law abiding and raise money for buerocrats. It doesn’t matter if it’s guns, manufacturers, automobiles.

It’s illegal to rob someone with a gun already. Doesn’t stop robbers.

felon can’t buy a gun, just get a black market one.

GOV passes new law that affects all widget companies. Come to find out a bunch of Congress owns stock in company with the solution and gets rich. Companies willing to skirt the law stay in business and companies who won’t go broke.

we are required to have drivers liscense and insurance. But when an uninsured/ no liscense motorist hits me, my insurance rates go up for the next 5 years and they get a ticket that costs less than my insurance for a month.
 
That has been discussed quite thoroughly here. Frank Ettin, one of our legal experts, has explained that while a lay person thinks X - it is the Supreme Court that interprets it. I am not a lawyer and to get into those weeds. Just to give you a flavor, the anti gun folks say the militia clause implies 'not infringer' refers to the rights of the state to have an armed militia - not individual ownership of guns. Sigh - tons of discussion of that. You might search on it and Frank's postings in Legal.

We announce the phrase as a magic spell but it doesn't work that way in actuality, even if we would like it to be so.

I'm not trying to claim anything is a "magic spell" (especially in today's environment) , and with all due respect to Frank Ettin, who I'm sure is a fine legal intellect despite his rather procustean attitude toward court interpretation (I'm NOT claiming he is wrong), but IMHO the definitions of words can be found in dictionaries everywhere. Mr. Ettin may ream me over Hell's Fires but, I seem to recall that a principle in jurisprudence is to use modern definitions for words, not "what the great unwashed masses think."

For the record, my dictionary is the OXFORD AMERICAN DICTIONARY, a huge tome that could double as a weapon, and this defines the word INFRINGED thus:

1.) To intrude into.
2.) To diminish.

Thus, without resorting to legal precedent, but applying them only as my logic would guide me;
"Shall not be infringed." "Shall" is an imperative, not a suggestion or request. Therefore, arguing via metaphor, if there is, say, a room in a house one cannot intrude into, then one cannot enter into it or effect any changes in said room .... atleast not without violating the term "intrude." Likewise, if something can not be diminished, then by definition it must remain whole.
Thus, IMHO, there are numerous gun laws that violate this proscription.
Now, yes, okay, I'm not a court. What I say is not the law and may not be what the court said or agree with. I only claim to have a very modest, humble, B.A. in English, and a belief that Rush Limbaugh was right when he claimed "words mean things."

The existence of the "militia clause, " or "preferatory clause," does not create a collective right of a state to have an armed militia. Even scholars might believe it but it simply is not true. "The right of the people" clearly connects the right to its owners: the people.
Mr. Ettin may correct me if I'm wrong but it's my belief, in law, a word or phrase that is given a definition retains the same definition everywhere in the document. Thus if "the right of the people" in the second amendment means only a government militia, then said militia are the only ones who have any of the rights mentioned elsewhere in the Bill of Rights.



Given the lengths the founders went to explain their efforts in both THE FEDERALIST PAPERS and THE ANTIFEDERALIST PAPERS I don't feel I have commited a heinous crime by expressing my own opinion here. I think my reasoning would roughly parallel theirs atleast in the whole if not specific.


Oh. P. S.: None of the above is to be construed as legal advice. :evil:
 
Last edited:
Said militia was supposed to be any abled body person. Jefferson believed that a state militia would keep a federal military in check. I believe Jefferson wrote 4 or 5 different versions of the 2A, the final one is what we have now. However all the other versions were more cut and dry, did not leave any room for misinterpretation in my opinion.
 
Unfortunately, it is the opinion of judges and justices that count. Heller could have flipped and then what? That's why the 4 didn't take the 10 cases, they thought Roberts would flip.
 
Said militia was supposed to be any abled body person. Jefferson believed that a state militia would keep a federal military in check. I believe Jefferson wrote 4 or 5 different versions of the 2A, the final one is what we have now. However all the other versions were more cut and dry, did not leave any room for misinterpretation in my opinion.

True ... but (again, in my opinion) the current second amendment is pretty clear; I believe that the collective rights argument was an attempt to alter it's meaning through specious interpretation, not honest reading.
 
Unfortunately SCOTUS has been very inconsistent and disingenuous when it comes to interpretation of the Constitution and the 2nd Amendment for well over a century now.
 
Said militia was supposed to be any abled body person. Jefferson believed that a state militia would keep a federal military in check. I believe Jefferson wrote 4 or 5 different versions of the 2A, the final one is what we have now. However all the other versions were more cut and dry, did not leave any room for misinterpretation in my opinion.

Jefferson may have been the inspiration for the Bill of Rights, but I believe James Madison was the author.
 
At the rate this idiotic “logic” is going with the “80%” stuff, at some point, I bet a kid gets into trouble at school for eating a PopTart into the shape of a gun...o_O
 
No one can convince me that the common criminal (or gangbanger) will spend $335 for this item. He then needs a jig, a milling machine and some machining acumen. Easier to go to the corner....

I agree. My point, where does it stop? 80%, 79%... go to the illogical conclusion....
 
No one can convince me that the common criminal (or gangbanger) will spend $335 for this item. He then needs a jig, a milling machine and some machining acumen. Easier to go to the corner....
That’s The whole point. It’s a grown mans erector set, it’s a hobby. It’s fun, cool, etc.
No laws and regs are in place to stop or hurt criminals. It’s to take our rights. Criminals will go steal one or buy it from their cousin down in Mexico (who got it from barrack Obama)
I’m on lots of forums online. Used to be very active in some. There’s foreign country’s where red necks can’t even buy oversized tires for their trucks. You can’t do engine mods that an inspector can see. Why? Because your a peasant and that’s what they want to do here.
 
No one can convince me that the common criminal (or gangbanger) will spend $335 for this item. He then needs a jig, a milling machine and some machining acumen. Easier to go to the corner....


Exactly.


How many crime guns are found to be stolen? A lot.


I don't think a "ghost gun" has ever been used in a crime yet........
 
Unfortunately SCOTUS has been very inconsistent and disingenuous when it comes to interpretation of the Constitution and the 2nd Amendment for well over a century now.

Not just SCOTUS, circuit courts often go off on oblique tangents with regards to ..... "interpreting" :scrutiny: (I use that term pretty loosely :D ) the Second Amendment, as a recent 9th circuit court decision regarding Hawaiian gun laws recently demonstrated.

In the end I can only speak my own opinion. I try to keep it real, and also realize that the court does determine what the law is (no matter how badly they muck up). :cool:
 
When while over in Chicago (alone), the current year to date is:
How many of these were from s SBR or Build it yourself gun kit!???

So what are they doing about this and other cites? All they care about are they few crazy people that get a gun and go on a spree, when every single day more people are shot and killed all over the Country. Back ground checks and banning SBRs, Polymer 80s only makes it harder for law abiding people!

April To Date

Shot & Killed: 19
Shot & Wounded: 83
Total Shot: 102
Total Homicides: 19


Year to Date
Shot & Killed: 154
Shot & Wounded: 685
Total Shot: 839
Total Homicides: 162


2021 Homicide Map

Neighborhood
Homicides Wounded Total
Englewood 11 64 75
Austin 17 47 64
Grand Crossing 9 54 63
Garfield Park 9 49 58
North Lawndale 7 33 40
Auburn Gresham 8 31 39
South Shore 7 30 37
Chatham 6 30 36
Humboldt Park 5 28 33
Roseland 3 30 33
West Pullman 10 20 30
Washington Heights 7 17 24
Chicago Lawn 5 12 17
Woodlawn 3 14 17
Little Village 5 10 15
All Others 46 203 249


As of 4/7/21
 
Not all criminals lack proper tooling and knowledge to employ it.

In other parts of the world, they are building AK’s out of shovels.....grease guns from hardware stores....

From the earliest days, people built their own firearms. So the law abiding will obey, and those that don’t won’t.....
 
If there's no beneficial justification for altering the status quo, then leave things alone, and do not further restrict law-abiding citizens' civil rights.
The problem is that hardliners on the gun-control side define "beneficial" as anything that limits or restricts access to firearms, period. Their acknowledged strategy involves incremental steps toward a total ban.

I'm pretty moderate on most political issues, but that doesn't blind me to the true nature of the gun-grab zealots. Even now, they're complaining that what Biden is proposing is insufficient. They're in a frenzy right now because they see an opportunity.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top