Biden to announce executive order on gun sale background checks

[Mark_Mark]

All of this is nonsense, since these actions will only effect those who buy their guns legally and without evil intent, while the gang bangers, steal guns or buy them black market with the intent to use them to commit crimes.

Go ahead Biden. Give us another executive order requiring these criminals to have a background check before buying a murder weapon.
The president is a blooming idiot!

Its about control, when you got all the money in the world. You want to control people. Founding father’s knew this, they didn’t even trust themselves. So, trust No one!!!

 

[crstrode]

How about this:

ATF distributes FFLs to everyone - just like COVID tests, food stamps, SSNs, ObamaCare. etc.
The next step is to monitor all of them and find even the smallest tidbit of non-compliance.
Then ban them permanently from posessing guns.
Voila! - everyone is a lawbreaker and all guns can be confiscated

 

[Mark_Mark]

How about this:

ATF distributes FFLs to everyone - just like COVID tests, food stamps, SSNs, ObamaCare. etc.
The next step is to monitor all of them and find even the smallest tidbit of non-compliance.
Then ban them permanently from posessing guns.
Voila! - everyone is a lawbreaker and all guns can be confiscated

Confiscated!!! lol! this an’t china or Australia. We went to war with Britain over the price of tea! Want to see a NEVER ENDING gorilla civil war!

 

[Elkins45]

Clinton did that in the 90's, requiring those who sold more than x number of gun to get an FFL.

At no point was X ever defined. In some cases people were prosecuted for X=1.

Table at a gun show? To me, that is selling guns for profit. Yard sale or estate sale of personal or inherited firearms to dispose of? Not dealing in firearms.

How about a table at a gun show to dispose of years of accumulated firearms to downsize a collection? What makes the gun show different? What better place to find buyers?

On this note I have wondered for years how some of these guys who work gun shows have managed to avoid prison. There are at least 10 guys I see at almost every show I attend, and as soon as they trade for a gun it lands on their table with a price tag. ATF in Kentucky either must not have any interest in prosecuting unlicensed dealers or must be the laziest agents in the bureau.

 

[Spats McGee]

"Boyfriend loophole" refers to the qualification for domestic violence. Traditionally, domestic violence only happened if you were married to that person. E.G: Spousal disputes. You'd be arrested for this. If it's a dating partner someone beats up, it's considered a misdemeanor.

They have extended the definition of domestic violence to include dating partners. The amount of people who live with said partner without marrying them has increased so much since 1970 to the point it's the most normalized form of co-habitation. But this meant that alot of people who beat up their girlfriend/boyfriend weren't getting arrested on domestic violence charges.

For at least as long as I have been practicing law: (1) domestic violence laws have always included significant others that aren't spouses; and (2) is generally a misdemeanor, barring serious injury or prior convictions.

As an aside, most people not involved with either law enforcement or the courts would be shocked to find out how much damage one person can do to another before it rises to level of a felony.

 

[dweis]

IANAL nor do I pretend to fully understand legal precedent & procedure.
Still, from what I have been able to deduce following the NYSRPA vs. Bruen case, the infringement of UBC & RFL are probably not constitutional as the historical background prior 1791 to support these laws is not present. Also, the government is not permitted to step on our Constitutional rights just because they claim a benefit for doing so. Even if the gov't could prove such a benefit (they cannot) it does not (IMHO) provide a constitutional basis for violating our 2nd Amendment rights.
Also, given the Deep State's proclivity to exaggerate, lie and fabricate stories and evidence to further political goals, the gov't has a proven track record of NOT having the citizen's best interest at the core of their actions. They SAY they do, but, historically, that has VERY rarely been true.

JMHO and worth everything you paid for it, too!

If one applies the “missing historical law precedent” then women lose the right to vote because it was not in the Constitution before the 20th Century. Bruen was about 2A. Background checks and red flag laws are about public safety.

 

[Ignition Override]

It is just another in a not-surprising series of momentary distractions - attempts to create trivial "political capital" ...despte...the White House's current series of crises, inactions, indifference to the sufferings of Americans.

They want America to forget that they never could pass UBC / Universal Background Checks in Congress (yet people at the same time said "They gonna take our guns!"), and they know that the public is generally Unaware the ATF (or FBI etc) seldom tried to prosecute people who lied on FFL Background Checks---

---even if such people did Not throw a handgun into a dumpster, having lied on a federal application.

 

[GEM]

Like I said - just some PR that accomplishes very little. The real game is elsewhere.

 

[12Bravo20]

For at least as long as I have been practicing law: (1) domestic violence laws have always included significant others that aren't spouses; and (2) is generally a misdemeanor, barring serious injury or prior convictions.

As an aside, most people not involved with either law enforcement or the courts would be shocked to find out how much damage one person can do to another before it rises to level of a felony.

It is basically a "He said She said" situation and 9 times out of 10 the court will side with the women. I have seen vindictive ex wives and ex girlfriends totally ruin a man's life with lies and false accusations happen way too often.

And don't forget that having a restraining order placed against you all bars you from possessing firearms also.

 

[benEzra]

If one applies the “missing historical law precedent” then women lose the right to vote because it was not in the Constitution before the 20th Century.

Except the Constitution was specifically amended to add it, and the original meaning of that amendment has not changed.

Bruen was about 2A. Background checks and red flag laws are about public safety.

Warrantless surveillance, warrantless search and seizure, censorship of divisive ideas, preemptive arrest based on “precrime” indicators, indefinite detention without trial, and outright gun prohibition could *all* be framed as being “about public safety”, too.

The Constitution and case law both say a lot about due process. Imposing felony-level punishments on people who have committed no crime, without trial, is unconstitutional and immoral.

 

[Megawatt maker]

Except the Constitution was specifically amended to add it, and the original meaning of that amendment has not changed.


Warrantless surveillance, warrantless search and seizure, censorship of divisive ideas, preemptive arrest based on “precrime” indicators, indefinite detention without trial, and outright gun prohibition could *all* be framed as being “about public safety”, too.

The Constitution and case law both say a lot about due process. Imposing felony-level punishments on people who have committed no crime, without trial, is unconstitutional and immoral.

Bingo!

 

[CapnMac]

I see articles beyond numbering gabbing on about this or that, and, generally, the same 4 or 5 "bullet points" (NPI).

What I cannot find is the actual text of the EO, which is likely germane to all the arguments on this.

So, much of this is inane articles about how FFL with "suspended" or "abandoned" licenses are to "stop dealing in guns." Er wut? Forbes, Newsweek, several others used this same 'paragraph' in their reporting. Does no one know how to proofread anymore. If a person is not a legal dealer, how are they dealing firearms?

There's drivel in the articles on the National Balistic Database, which appears to be something Brandon saw on NCIS Toledo or Matlock or the like.

I've seen absolutely zero on just how, without any legislation, the laws governing NICS checks are changed in any way.

NPC's twitter feed is frothing at the mouth about this new "UBC."

Sigh.

 

[d2wing]

Remember that the goal of many Democrats is the elimination of firearms for any purpose and Biden, like Obama is strongly in favor of the UN small arms treaty. The idea that all guns are evil in engrained in the liberal mindset. Of course not all Democrats are anti-gun. In my opinion as a former Democrat politician is that you need to read the party platform. If you vote for a party you are guilty of the wrong doing of that party.

 

[Dudedog]

What I cannot find is the actual text of the EO, which is likely germane to all the arguments on this.

This appears to be the text, but may be may be mistaken.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing...un-violence-and-making-our-communities-safer/

 

[Elkins45]

This appears to be the most relevant section:

The Attorney General shall develop and implement a plan to:

(i) clarify the definition of who is engaged in the business of dealing in firearms, and thus required to become Federal firearms licensees (FFLs), in order to increase compliance with the Federal background check requirement for firearm sales, including by considering a rulemaking, as appropriate and consistent with applicable law;

Funny, but ATF has always avoided creating what they called a “bright line” in determining who is engaged in the business. I’m still ruminating on whether it would be a bad thing for them to finally come out and define the X variable.

 

[Mark_Mark]

I really want to say something about JB. But I would get a F - JB fans out there

 

[dogtown tom]

Before the usual suspects start spamming their YouTube videos that literally suck twenty five minutes of your life away, here's a synopsis with my comments.

The Executive Order directs the President’s Cabinet to:Increase the number of background checks by ensuring that all background checks required by law are conducted before firearm purchases, moving the U.S. as close to universal background checks as possible without additional legislation. A large majority of Americans support background checks and agree it’s common sense to check whether someone is a felon or domestic abuser before allowing them to buy a gun. The President will continue to call on Congress to pass universal background check legislation. In the meantime, he is directing the Attorney General to do everything he can to ensure that firearms sellers who do not realize they are required to run background checks under existing law, or who are willfully violating existing law, become compliant with background check requirements. Specifically, the President is directing the Attorney General to move the U.S. as close to universal background checks as possible without additional legislation by clarifying, as appropriate, the statutory definition of who is “engaged in the business” of dealing in firearms, as updated by the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act. This move would mean fewer guns will be sold without background checks, and therefore fewer guns will end up in the hands of felons and domestic abusers. The President is also directing the Attorney General to develop and implement a plan to prevent former federally licensed firearms dealers, whose licenses have been revoked or surrendered, from continuing to engage in the business of dealing in firearms.

Currently, only only licensed dealers, manufacturers and importers of firearms are required to follow the provisions of the Brady Law. Adding additional parties or allowing nonlicensees to access FBI NICS directly would require an amendment to the Brady Law.

The Attorney General isn't so stupid to believe that licensed dealers, manufacturers and importers don't already know their responsibilities under federal law. After all, that's the point of the initial FFL interview and subsequent ATF compliance inspections.

The definition of engaging in the business:
Dealer in firearms other than a gunsmith or a pawnbroker. A person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such a term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms;

Amending this to eliminate the underlined portion would require legislative action.

The last bolded text implies that former licensees can continue to engage in the business of dealing n firearms. Thats clearly not true. If you are "engaged in the business"....you need an FFL.

Once an FFL has been revoked or suspended, that FFL may be allowed to dispose of his remaining inventory, but certainly cannot continue to seek profit or livlihood through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms. He would be just like any other citizen selling off his own (now) personal collection.

Improve public awareness and increase appropriate use of extreme risk protection (“red flag”) orders and safe storage of firearms. 19 states and the District of Columbia have enacted red flag laws, allowing trusted community members to petition a court to determine whether an individual is dangerous, and then to temporarily remove an individual’s access to firearms. However, these laws are only effective if the public knows when and how to use red flag orders. President Biden is directing members of his Cabinet to encourage effective use of extreme risk protection orders, including by partnering with law enforcement, health care providers, educators, and other community leaders. In addition, President Biden is directing members of his Cabinet to expand existing federal campaigns and other efforts to promote safe storage of firearms.

"Red flag laws" aren't federal law. He can have the Secretary of Traffic Lens Timing, Cleaning and Lens Acquisition give speeches all day long or issued press releases.....but they are already doing that.

The last paragraph means he wants to give away more cheap, crappy gun locks at gun shows.

Again.......this portion is a nothingburger.

Address the loss or theft of firearms during shipping. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) data indicates an over 250% increase in the number of firearms reported as lost or stolen during shipment between federally licensed firearms dealers, from roughly 1,700 in 2018 to more than 6,100 in 2022. President Biden is directing the Secretary of Transportation, in consultation with the Department of Justice, to work to reduce the loss or theft of firearms during shipment and to improve reporting of such losses or thefts, including by engaging with carriers and shippers.

You would think this was already a priority.
But really.....6,100 guns lost or stolen out of NINETEEN MILLION that were transported last year? Thats miniscule. That's .03%.....not three percent, but .03 percent.

As far as "improve reporting"? Well federal law already requires the reporting of the loss or theft of a firearm and there is a reporting system for that. Maybe ATF/FBI/Postal Inspectors oughta remind UPS/FedEx/USPS of that.

Again.......this portion is a nothingburger.

Provide the public and policymakers with more information regarding federally licensed firearms dealers who are violating the law. Gun dealers violating federal law put us all at risk by increasing the likelihood that firearms will fall into dangerous hands. The President is directing the Attorney General to publicly release, to the fullest extent permissible by law, ATF records from the inspection of firearms dealers cited for violation of federal firearm laws. This information will empower the public and policymakers to better understand the problem, and then improve our laws to hold rogue gun dealers accountable.

I would agree with this if the exact violation were disclosed and that the violation WAS a serious criminal act.....but most of the violations ARE NOT criminal acts. ATF even says they aren't. But as long as we're outing gun dealers who have transposed a digit or forgotten to sign a 4473, the names and personal information of the ATF employees who make clerical errors also needs to be released.

The best way for Joe Biden to publicly shun such "rogue gun dealers" is to charge them with a crime. Have a trial. By a jury of their peers. The whole guilty/not guilty thing. Anything less could be slanderous. Why isn't that already being done?

Again.......this portion is a nothingburger.

Use the Department of Defense’s acquisition of firearms to further firearm and public safety practices. The Department of Defense buys a large number of firearms and other weapons to protect and serve our country. The President is directing the Secretary of Defense to develop and implement principles to further firearm and public safety practices through Department of Defense acquisition of firearms, consistent with applicable law.

Literally, I got nothing. I have no idea what Biden thinks the DOD buying MORE firearms has to do with firearm and public safety principles.

Again.......this portion is a nothingburger.

President Biden is also encouraging the independent Federal Trade Commission (FTC) to issue a public report analyzing how gun manufacturers market firearms to minors and how such manufacturers market firearms to all civilians, including through the use of military imagery.

I'll tell you how...... the First Amendment is how. The same way Nike sells shoes by using ads with professional athletes to sell running shoes to fat people.

Again.......this portion is a nothingburger.

Help catch shooters by accelerating federal law enforcement’s reporting of ballistics data. The National Integrated Ballistics Information Network (NIBIN) allows federal, state, and local law enforcement to match fired cartridge casings to the guns from which they were fired, making it easier for law enforcement to connect multiple crime scenes and catch shooters. In order to maximize NIBIN’s effectiveness, federal, state, and local law enforcement all have an important role to play in ensuring timely submission of ballistics data to NIBIN. Today, the President is directing all federal law enforcement agencies to issue rigorous requirements regarding NIBIN data submission and use of this tool.

Well its about time!
Law & Order has been doing this every week in less than an hour. And it certainly eliminated crime in NYC.

Again.......this portion is a nothingburger.

[*]Accelerate and intensify implementation of the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act (BSCA). BSCA is the most significant gun safety legislative accomplishment in nearly 30 years, and the Biden-Harris Administration is treating it as such by making the most of every opportunity it provides to reduce gun violence. President Biden is directing each agency responsible for the law’s implementation to send a report to him, within 60 days, on progress toward full implementation of BSCA and additional steps they will take to maximize the benefits of the law, including by increasing public awareness and use of the resources made available by BSCA.

"Seriously, I'm the President and I don't know if ya'll are really doing anything this law requires so I want a four page report in LARGE FONT on my desk before I go on summer vaycay."

Again.......this portion is a nothingburger.

Improve federal support for gun violence survivors, victims and survivors’ families, first responders to gun violence, and communities affected by gun violence. When a hurricane overwhelms a community, the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) coordinates federal, state, local, and non-profit organizations in order to assess and meet community needs. However, when a mass shooting overwhelms a community, no coordinated U.S. government mechanism exists to meet short- and long-term needs, such as mental health care for grief and trauma, financial assistance (for example, when a family loses the sole breadwinner or when a small business is shut down due to a lengthy shooting investigation), and food (for example, when the Buffalo shooting closed down the only grocery store in the neighborhood). The President is directing members of his Cabinet to develop a proposal for how the federal government can better support communities after a mass shooting, and identify what additional resources or authorities the executive branch would need from Congress to implement this proposal.

How about letting the local community decide what it needs? No one wants a FEMA trailer. Every state has its own emergency management agency. School districts in Texas do a great job of helping each other out with counselors and school psychologists when another school district experiences a tragedy....be it a shooting, a tornado or a hurricane. The boots are already on the ground.

Advance congressional efforts to prevent the proliferation of firearms undetectable by metal detectors. In recent years, we’ve seen the rise of technology that allows guns to be made with polymers and other materials that are increasingly capable of avoiding detection by metal detectors. President Biden is directing the Attorney General to help Congress modernize and make permanent the Undetectable Firearms Act of 1988, which is currently set to expire in December 2023.

Actually, not a bad law. (for us rich guys who buy guns that cost more than you make in a month)

 

[DeepSouth]

If one applies the “missing historical law precedent” then women lose the right to vote because it was not in the Constitution before the 20th Century. Bruen was about 2A. Background checks and red flag laws are about public safety.

According to Bush v Gore the individual right to vote doesn’t exist today, at least as far as presidential elections.

 

[dweis]

According to Bush v Gore the individual right to vote doesn’t exist today, at least as far as presidential elections.

We must have studied law in different places or times.

 

[CoalTrain49]

I looked at it. Nothing new there. Carry on.

 

[DeepSouth]

We must have studied law in different places or times.

Never studied law, but I can read.

The Bush v. Gore majority directly addressed it……. “The individual citizen has no federal constitutional right to vote for electors for the President of the United States,” citing McPherson v. Blacker

 

[Old Dog]

Yawn. Simply more smokescreens from the administration, another EO that won't accomplish what the administration says it will but will spawn numerous unintended consequences.

Just the anti faction seeing how much crap they can put out without pushback from the citizenry. When the silence is like a tree falling in the woods with no one to hear it, those on the other side will again become emboldened and the lackies of the House and Senate members (none of who ever read any proposed bills anyway) will write up some more word salad legislation to further erode our rights.

 

[TrapK80]

"President Biden has taken more executive action to reduce gun violence than any other president at this point in their presidency."

 

[Sniper66]

TSK,TSK......more ATF meddling in private affairs. I just bought a new rifle from a new gun store about an hour drive from me. The owner entertained me with stories of the crap they go thru from the ATF. They send shills in an attempt to entice the owners to offer an illegal service, like sell them a machine gun or sell the weasel a gun without doing the background check. Name one other business that gets that kind of harassment. The government cares very little about prosecution. The goal is to run them out of business. During one period of time in the past, maybe a year, the data showed several hundred denied applications to purchase a firearm. But less than a dozen prosecutions. They are not serious about prosecution of criminals. The target is the legal gun owner.

 

[12Bravo20]

TSK,TSK......more ATF meddling in private affairs. I just bought a new rifle from a new gun store about an hour drive from me. The owner entertained me with stories of the crap they go thru from the ATF. They send shills in an attempt to entice the owners to offer an illegal service, like sell them a machine gun or sell the weasel a gun without doing the background check. Name one other business that gets that kind of harassment. The government cares very little about prosecution. The goal is to run them out of business. During one period of time in the past, maybe a year, the data showed several hundred denied applications to purchase a firearm. But less than a dozen prosecutions. They are not serious about prosecution of criminals. The target is the legal gun owner.

I've had to deal with this kind of stuff when I had my FFL and also dealt with similar when working at bars over the years. With bars, we had to deal with local, state and federal liquor license inspectors. And don't think for a minute that all levels of law enforcement didn't send in minors to try and buy alcohol. The ATF agents could be just as hard on bars as they could on gun shops.