My comment was towards those that will not accept a difference in opinion and will go off on you for saying anything negative about their favorite brand/product. And no that usually does not happen on this forum.
Glock Timney Triggers (warnings)
- Thread starter 12Bravo20
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My comment was towards those that will not accept a difference in opinion and will go off on you for saying anything negative about their favorite brand/product. And no that usually does not happen on this forum.
These 1911 conditions are post WW2 creations, by Cult Cocked and Locked. John Browning designed the pistol to be "carried" on the half cock, the Army would have nothing to do with that, and the original Army "carry" mode was round in the chamber, hammer down, in the flap holster. The Navy's "carry" mode was nothing in the chamber, pistol in flap holster. I have been able to trace the Navy recommended practice to the 1918 Blue Jacket manual. From the Army Vietnam veterans I talked to, in "cantonment", the pistol was carried in the flap holster, nothing in the chamber, magazine in the pistol was allowed. Accidental discharges in cantonment did result in court martials. Opps! Once out in the field, carry mode was up to the unit commander, always understanding, if a unit member shot himself accidentally, that could end an Officer's career. The trick from the beginning was, and will always be, getting the hammer down without having it slip and fire the pistol.Once the hammer is down, it is very hard to get a 1911 to fire. If you drop it far enough, right on the muzzle, firing pin inertia has, and will, set off a round, hammer down, or cocked and locked. Nature of the beast.
Don't go into the Doctor's office cocked and locked. The MRI might snatch the pistol and cause an accidental discharge!
Spontaneous Discharge of a Firearm in an MR Imaging Environment
(do note, the hammer did not fall, and yet, the pistol went bang!, which is another reason reason not to trust firing pin blocks as safeties)
Unlike these striker fired pistols, the 1911, with the hammer down, is actually quite safe outside of its holster. Striker fired guns are positively dangerous out of the holster, sometimes in the holster, and a number of accidental discharges are reported when the owners insert the things back into their holsters.
Such as this one, Oregon gun fanatic shoots self in groin while showing off gun in supermarket checkout line
I had to search on other web sites to find that the pistol was a Glock!
GunnyUSMC
Member
I always get a laugh when people start quoting military manuals, especially the ones that were never in the military. Ask 100 people that were in the military about the manual and most will say that it was a great guideline. Most often the only one that thinks a military manuals it to be followed by the letter is the Admin Pog that wrote it.
Standard carry for pistols in the Navy and the Marine Corps has been hammer down on an empty chamber with a loaded magazine inserted. In combat it was a different story. This was how it was when I was in and the pistols issued were the 1911A1 and the Beretta M9.
That’s me on the left with a M9 in a shoulder holster, standing next to my British Royal Marine, twin brother.
I’ll have to talk to one of my younger Marine brothers that carried a Glock 19 about how they were supposed to be carried and how they were carried.
In a self defense situation, things happen really fast. Carry a pistols with an empty chamber or hammer down on a single action pistol is most often done by people that have never had to defend themselves in a life or death situation. I carried a 1911A1 for SD for many years and can tell you that I found this to be the best way.
But we’re really getting off topic here. Let’s get back to Glock triggers.
Standard carry for pistols in the Navy and the Marine Corps has been hammer down on an empty chamber with a loaded magazine inserted. In combat it was a different story. This was how it was when I was in and the pistols issued were the 1911A1 and the Beretta M9.
That’s me on the left with a M9 in a shoulder holster, standing next to my British Royal Marine, twin brother.
I’ll have to talk to one of my younger Marine brothers that carried a Glock 19 about how they were supposed to be carried and how they were carried.
In a self defense situation, things happen really fast. Carry a pistols with an empty chamber or hammer down on a single action pistol is most often done by people that have never had to defend themselves in a life or death situation. I carried a 1911A1 for SD for many years and can tell you that I found this to be the best way.
But we’re really getting off topic here. Let’s get back to Glock triggers.
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Buzznrose
Member
But we’re really getting off topic here. Let’s get back to Glock triggers.
The topic of Glock triggers has always been a bit of a cluster. Steel gun folks like to bad mouth the trigger, as it’s not as nice as a 1911.
But in their next sentence, say something like “don’t modify that stock Glock trigger…” LOL! Make up your mind!
Like I said earlier, I’m not carrying my Glock with the Timney…yet…but it sure shoots sweet!
Speedo66
Member
You mean there might be a better trigger than the NY++ I'm still using while retired with my old service gun?
Manual transmissions are anti Millennial theft devices. Only one employee in a huge tire retailer could drive stick when I brought my minivan in for new shoes. Yes, my Mazda 5 is stick.
Manual transmissions are anti Millennial theft devices. Only one employee in a huge tire retailer could drive stick when I brought my minivan in for new shoes. Yes, my Mazda 5 is stick.
GunnyUSMC
Member
OMG, you drive a minivan! If it weren’t for it having a standard transmission, you would have to give up your man card.
They put the NY trigger springs in our Glocks when we first got them in 2002. A couple of years later the removed them and put the standard Glock spring back in.
Speedo66
Member
Yeah, it pulls the trailer with my off road bike when I go motorcycle camping, seats fold flat and sleeping in it beats a muddy tent anytime.OMG, you drive a minivan! If it weren’t for it having a standard transmission, you would have to give up your man card.
They put the NY trigger springs in our Glocks when we first got them in 2002. A couple of years later the removed them and put the standard Glock spring back in.
Still, if it wasn't a stick I wouldn't have it. My daughter bought it new, dealer was giving her nothing on a new car trade in, so I took it because a stick minivan is cool, or at least as cool as a minivan gets. lol It's built on a Mazda 3 platform so it actually handles decently.
What are you driving?
GunnyUSMC
Member
I drive a Ford F-150 and my Glock 48 rides in it with me.
The G48 does have an Apex trigger that’s 4.5 lbs that kind of matches the truck.
I just might keep an eye out for a long slide Glock, just to put a Timney trigger in. It just might make a great range toy.
Oh! Here’s me and my partner in crime. We were out and about today and had just left my buddy’s pawn shop where she has the run of the store, and loved by almost everyone.
The video makes a good point. One of the safety features in the original design is defeated.
The second post on the thread also makes a good point--there's still the firing pin safety which should prevent a discharge in the event that the sear jars off.
I would also like to point out that the relatively light spring pressure on the sear in the design may not be an issue. One would need to run the numbers for the expected force applied to the sear in the event that the pistol is dropped from a reasonable height. That force is related to the weight of the sear, and it is quite a small, light, part. Which means that it's possible that even the relatively light spring in the trigger may be sufficient to prevent the sear from jarring off from a normal drop.
I think it's important to understand that drop-in parts can have unintended consequences. Not all of them are dangerous, but it is important to understand that changing a gun by installing "drop-in" parts can, in some circumstances, result in safety features being disabled.
The second post on the thread also makes a good point--there's still the firing pin safety which should prevent a discharge in the event that the sear jars off.
I would also like to point out that the relatively light spring pressure on the sear in the design may not be an issue. One would need to run the numbers for the expected force applied to the sear in the event that the pistol is dropped from a reasonable height. That force is related to the weight of the sear, and it is quite a small, light, part. Which means that it's possible that even the relatively light spring in the trigger may be sufficient to prevent the sear from jarring off from a normal drop.
I think it's important to understand that drop-in parts can have unintended consequences. Not all of them are dangerous, but it is important to understand that changing a gun by installing "drop-in" parts can, in some circumstances, result in safety features being disabled.
Ks5shooter
Contributing Member
Was thinking same thing Gunny. I have a Glock 34 M.O.S. with a Leupold Deltapoint pro on top. Was toying with the idea of the Timney for some range time fun.
It would be better to do a drop test so that the velocities involved are appropriate for the question to be answered. It's hard to measure the velocity of something you're swinging at a counter, but if you want to know what will happen if you drop it from a certain height, then dropping it from that height will always give the correct velocity.
Otto
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Unless you monkeyed with the firing pin safety block or took too much pre-travel out ...I don't see that it would be necessary.
My concern was that the trigger bar cruciform remained on the drop-safety shelf.and mine does.
Of all the aftermarket triggers I've installed, I feel the Timney is by far the safest.
Here's JG dropping a Timney G34.
Riomouse911
Member
At work we call an automatic transmission a “Millennial anti-theft device.”And most drivers have lost the ability to effectively utilize a standard transmission on a vehicle, or can’t even operate one.Just poking fun at you
I’ll lighten my Glock striker springs by a half pound (from 5.5 OEM to 5 Wolff) and install lighter safety plunger springs to improve the Glock factory trigger pull. I don’t want a hair trigger, just a slightly improved one.
I’ve also installed one Apex flat trigger and one V-Tac flat trigger on a couple of Glocks I own, strictly because the trigger that came on those two guns had the safety blade stick too far out when depressed and they were irritating to shoot. That’s about all those things need for me to shoot them well. (My other Glocks are fine with the factory triggers.)
The magic of the US is we can decide to modify our stuff or leave it alone...”To each his own.”
Stay safe.
The Glockodile
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GunnyUSMC
Member
Let’s play nice now, we’re only bashing Glock triggers in this topic.
I've let this thread drift a bit, but I'd really appreciate it if we could stay more on track in regards to the OP
Trey Veston
Member
I just installed mine, then wrapped it in a rag and beat the heck out of it with a large rubber mallet on all sides, several times. It did not release.
My G23 now has the best trigger of any of my defensive pistols with little creep, distinct wall, and 3.75 lb trigger pull. It's pretty amazing. I used a 5 lb connector and a polished trigger safety.
Just amazing trigger now!
Going to a family 4th of July picnic tonight and can't wait to amaze my cop brother and dad with the best Glock trigger they will ever feel.
Buzznrose
Member
I’ll try when I have a chance. I‘m away on vacation for the 4th.
Trey Veston
Member
Oh crap!
Pistol is definitely NOT drop safe!
My living room floor is hardwood with a somewhat thin area rug in the middle. I figured I could safely drop the pistol on the rug without damaging it to really make sure the pistol is drop safe with the new trigger.
I dropped it over a dozen times from different heights and onto different areas of the gun. Any height over two feet, the trigger will release. I simulated dropping it from a table top at four feet and it released whether it landed on the muzzle, the top of the slide, the back of the slide, or on the magazine. It released every time.
I then did the same simulating it tumbling from a holster or waist high drop. Released every time.
This is falling on a padded carpet on hardwood, which is not damaging the pistol in any way. Obviously, in the real world, this pistol falling on concrete, wood, or any solid surface would go off if dropped from nearly any height.
The rubber mallet test tells me it is safe to handle and bump around, but not drop safe at all.
Sad, because the trigger is just so amazingly good.
Pistol is definitely NOT drop safe!
My living room floor is hardwood with a somewhat thin area rug in the middle. I figured I could safely drop the pistol on the rug without damaging it to really make sure the pistol is drop safe with the new trigger.
I dropped it over a dozen times from different heights and onto different areas of the gun. Any height over two feet, the trigger will release. I simulated dropping it from a table top at four feet and it released whether it landed on the muzzle, the top of the slide, the back of the slide, or on the magazine. It released every time.
I then did the same simulating it tumbling from a holster or waist high drop. Released every time.
This is falling on a padded carpet on hardwood, which is not damaging the pistol in any way. Obviously, in the real world, this pistol falling on concrete, wood, or any solid surface would go off if dropped from nearly any height.
The rubber mallet test tells me it is safe to handle and bump around, but not drop safe at all.
Sad, because the trigger is just so amazingly good.
Buzznrose
Member
Thanks! Dang it….I will try mine as well when I get a chance to confirm your results. I have a Gen 5.
@Trey Veston thank you for the honesty in both of your posts. When I saw the video I was a little skeptical at first. But I wanted to pass on the information to everyone just in case.
Trey Veston
Member
Just tried to do a video for my YouTube channel showing it releasing and it didn't do it after several tries. No idea why not. Dropped it directly on the rear sight from 3' and it released, but not on camera. Will keep trying.
Trey Veston
Member
OK, did another video and dropped it half a dozen times and got it to release on video from about 4'. My internet is slow, so will take forever to download and process the 2 minute video, but I will post it here so folks can see it fail on camera.
GunnyUSMC
Member
Seems the Timney trigger is camera shy.
The Timney trigger was not designed as a duty trigger, but there are some nice after market triggers out there that are made for duty use.
I still want a Timney trigger to put in a Glock, but I will be for range use only.
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