357 load development and casual observations

Shivahasagun said:
Ok.

I tested my .357 mag 158 gr XTP increasing CFEP from 6.6 to 6.8 gr.

7 of 10 shots over the chrono that read my average went down 10 fps and ES went from 58 to 87 fps.

Small test sample but essentially no change.
Avg. Went from 971 fps to 961 fps.

This from my new Colt King Cobra 3 inch.

As you would expect there is little flash or blast and it's very controllable. Accuracy was fine. I made 50 rds and fired about half of them.

I've been seeking 1100 fps and CFEP isnt going to do it. I'm going to get some Ramshot Enforcer.

But for a practice / mild .357 mag load CFE and a 158 gr bullet is fine.
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Considering their data is based on a 10 inch barrel I doubt you could even get a thousand feet per second are only out of a Max load Screenshot_20211118-172514_Samsung Internet.jpg

True Blue from ramshot Planes 1260 Max load out of a 4 inch barrel in the Lyman manual
 
AJC1 said:
Considering their data is based on a 10 inch barrel I doubt you could even get a thousand feet per second are only out of a Max loadView attachment 1038791

True Blue from ramshot Planes 1260 Max load out of a 4 inch barrel in the Lyman manual
Click to expand...

Thanks, but that's with a lead bullet.

Factiry Hornady 158 gr XTP chronographed about 1075 fps from my 1.9 in LCR, so I know it can be done with a 3 inch. I'm sure Hornady didn't load it hot, either, because they generally don't.

I was also thinking Enforcer because in my book a max load is still under just 35k pressure and that appeals to me.
 
Shivahasagun said:
Thanks, but that's with a lead bullet.

Factiry Hornady 158 gr XTP chronographed about 1075 fps from my 1.9 in LCR, so I know it can be done with a 3 inch. I'm sure Hornady didn't load it hot, either, because they generally don't.

I was also thinking Enforcer because in my book a max load is still under just 35k pressure and that appeals to me.
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The xtp load was directly below it I went to the top so that you could see the barrel length tested. That load page was Hodgdon and it showed 6.9 is a Max load for the Xtp.
 
Shivahasagun said:
Thanks, but that's with a lead bullet.

Factiry Hornady 158 gr XTP chronographed about 1075 fps from my 1.9 in LCR, so I know it can be done with a 3 inch. I'm sure Hornady didn't load it hot, either, because they generally don't.

I was also thinking Enforcer because in my book a max load is still under just 35k pressure and that appeals to me.
Click to expand...
You have to watch Hornady. Sometimes their loads are on the edge. Sometimes not. They go based on erratic pressure readings and max pressure. If they don't get erratic readings. Your load will be at Sammi max.
 
Bfh_auto said:
You have to watch Hornady. Sometimes their loads are on the edge. Sometimes not. They go based on erratic pressure readings and max pressure. If they don't get erratic readings. Your load will be at Sammi max.
Click to expand...
Some people want to walk the ragged edge. I would prefer to know the powder charastics. The only clue I have seen is powders with plus p loads would indicate that they dont have peaky or eradic burn charastics. That's not a fact but an inclination that makes sense. I bought the powder profiles book with Hope's of some much deeper and scientific insights and was disappointed. It's a decent book but nothing of the depth I was hoping for.
 
Anyone tried the Acme NLG Semi-wadcutter 158 grain bullets, specifically with Alliant 2400 powder? I’m a pretty big fan of Acme’s 9mm 125 grain green bullets and 135 grain 30 caliber flat point bullets. I figure a modest charge of 2400 would work with the 158 grain NLG-SWC bullets. I use 2400 behind the 135 grain 30 cal bullets.
 
DMW1116 said:
Anyone tried the Acme NLG Semi-wadcutter 158 grain bullets, specifically with Alliant 2400 powder? I’m a pretty big fan of Acme’s 9mm 125 grain green bullets and 135 grain 30 caliber flat point bullets. I figure a modest charge of 2400 would work with the 158 grain NLG-SWC bullets. I use 2400 behind the 135 grain 30 cal bullets.
Click to expand...
I bought a hundred pack to try out with 2400, No.7, and IMR 4227 a few years back: good bullets, prefer a longer barrel, did really well in the Colts and Rugers, not as well in Taurus and Rossi, very inconsistent in the Smith 66. I think the long bearing surface will make it ideal for a carbine load. I never got around to trying it in my H&R. I didn’t see good results until I got to 13.5gr of 2400 in the Blackhawk - and I did use a SSP primer, not a SSR or MSP. I suspect you’ll have good results unless you load too light or only shoot it in 4” and shorter barrels.
 
That’s pushing it a bit. 13.5 is the maximum load in my Lyman manual for a 158 grain bullet. It also lists a 160 grain bullet with a max load of 15 grains and a 155 grain bullet with a max of 14.
 
DMW1116 said:
That’s pushing it a bit. 13.5 is the maximum load in my Lyman manual for a 158 grain bullet. It also lists a 160 grain bullet with a max load of 15 grains and a 155 grain bullet with a max of 14.
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Depends on the bullet: how hard the alloy is, how it’s sized, jacketed or waxed, profile, crimp… with that PC-NLG I found that jacketed data and a tight roll crimp worked best with a heavier charge of 2400. I only bought the one 100 pack before deciding to stick with my usual LSWC from GT. If I recall they mic’d out a little over so be sure to check the OD before setting your crimping die.
 
DMW1116 said:
That’s pushing it a bit. 13.5 is the maximum load in my Lyman manual for a 158 grain bullet. It also lists a 160 grain bullet with a max load of 15 grains and a 155 grain bullet with a max of 14.
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Yeah I saw that when I was doing a load work up also and I don't know if the 38th 156 is just weird or that's caused by a gas check. My flat round nose I found the best load of 14.1 grains
 
Bazoo said:
But the pressure limit for 357 has been lowered since.
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If it was a SAAMI change, that's for factory ammo manufacturers, not reloaders. Or is it? I've always understood SAAMI was an ammo industry standards watchdog not a NIST partner. (??) Could be wrong.
 
What's nist? I can't recall what the old max was and when or why it was changed. I read so much about guns that I lose track of the information source.
 
Bazoo said:
What's nist? I can't recall what the old max was and when or why it was changed. I read so much about guns that I lose track of the information source.
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National Institute on Science and Technology. They’re part of the regulatory machinery that sets industry standards, including case head stamps, alloy materials, and strength. But they don’t regulate pressure or weight. If I recall, SAAMI was setup as a self-regulator agency so the Feds would keep out of the munitions industry.
 
NIST

National Institute of STANDARDS and Technology

Standards established for weight, pressure, temperature, volume, etc.
The precision of a gas pump
The precision of a weight scale
The precision of an electric meter
 
GeoDudeFlorida said:
National Institute on Science and Technology. They’re part of the regulatory machinery that sets industry standards, including case head stamps, alloy materials, and strength. But they don’t regulate pressure or weight. If I recall, SAAMI was setup as a self-regulator agency so the Feds would keep out of the munitions industry.
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It's a good thing for us that SAAMI is there. Look at what the gov did with the gas can. :D
 
I ordered some Enforcer...that was expensive. (Shipping fees to pay for extra stickers and put it on the back of the truck)

Also 158 gr bullets. I decided to use the .357 cases to avoid buying and storing yet another set of dies.
 
I tested some pretty hot Fiochi 142 grain jacketed flat point. I don’t see that weight in my manuals though so when it comes time to develop the full power loads I’ll probably go to 158 grain projectiles.

The wadcutter loads will satisfy me for a while though. I plan to try them with CFE Pistol next. The ones over Winchester 231 shot more single hole groups yesterday, but they put a strain on my 231 supply, so it’s worth a try to change.
 
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DMW1116 said:
I tested some pretty hot Fiochi 142 grain jacketed flat point. I don’t see that weight in my manuals though so when it comes time to develop the full power loads I’ll probably go to 158 grain projectiles.

The wadcutter loads will satisfy me for a while though. I plan to try them with CFE Pistol next. The ones over Winchester 231 shot more single hole groups yesterday, but they put a strain on my 231 supply, so it’s worth a try to change.
Click to expand...
You mean these?
58F307E9-A8E9-4B31-95A5-601BFAD37B9E.jpeg
They average 141.6gr, .356”, and have an exposed lead core. They work in.38/.357 and 9mm. Good bullets. I bought 3000 for $1/100 about ten years ago online through a liquidation company in Arizona. I would have bought more but by the time I figured out how good they are it was too late. I think I got about a thousand left. I load them up for 9mm with 4.2gr of HS-6, for .357 with 13.5gr of 2400, and for .38Spl with 5.5gr of Unique.
 
AJC1 said:
Some people want to walk the ragged edge. I would prefer to know the powder charastics. The only clue I have seen is powders with plus p loads would indicate that they dont have peaky or eradic burn charastics. That's not a fact but an inclination that makes sense. I bought the powder profiles book with Hope's of some much deeper and scientific insights and was disappointed. It's a decent book but nothing of the depth I was hoping for.
Click to expand...
I've had much better luck pushing the envelope with older powders than new ones.
As I've gotten older I've learned switching between Hornady and Nosler bullets creates a very different max load. Don't take for granted that data is always reduced because of lawyers. Be very conscious of pressure signs besides primers.
Lastly faster doesn't always mean better
 
GeoDudeFlorida said:
You mean these?
View attachment 1039427
They average 141.6gr, .356”, and have an exposed lead core. They work in.38/.357 and 9mm. Good bullets. I bought 3000 for $1/100 about ten years ago online through a liquidation company in Arizona. I would have bought more but by the time I figured out how good they are it was too late. I think I got about a thousand left. I load them up for 9mm with 4.2gr of HS-6, for .357 with 13.5gr of 2400, and for .38Spl with 5.5gr of Unique.
Click to expand...

Yep those are the ones, at least projectile wise. The Fiochi load is quoted at 1420 fps. They seem accurate but I’ve only shot 5 and it was from 5 yards. That said they grouped into one ragged hole about an inch across. It depends on if I can find anything locally or have to order.
 
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