357 load development and casual observations

[AJC1]

Another powder to try (if you can find some) is Power Pistol. I had grabbed a 4 pound keg of it during the previous panic when my usual W-296/H-110, Unique, Universal Clays, Win 231/HP-38 were nowhere to be found. A little slower than Unique, it shoots really well with just under 8.0 gr of powder (about half of my usual charge of W-296, so economical) and heavier cast bullets, the best being a commercially cast Keith Style semi-wadcutters listed as 170 gr but actual weight closer to 165 gr. Loses 100 to 150 FPS compared to the 158 gr JSP with 296, but seems equally accurate.

Of all the powders I have used so far that is the one I will never buy again. Its loud and the flash is obnoxious. Not really keen on ramshot competion either but I'll give a full workup before final determination.

 

[2ndtimer]

Of all the powders I have used so far that is the one I will never buy again. Its loud and the flash is obnoxious. Not really keen on ramshot competion either but I'll give a full workup before final determination.

Hmmm, not sure I have heard of any quiet powders that push a158 gr bullet 1200 FPS out of a 6” .357 Magnum. And it certainly isn’t any louder/flashier than H-110/W296 or 2400. The only handgun powder I have ever vowed to never use again was 800X. Those little doughnuts made Unique look like a ball powder in my powder measure (RCBS Uniflow). If you want low flash, quieter powders, I suggest full wadcutters with W231 or Bullseye loaded to .38 Special levels.

 

[AJC1]

Hmmm, not sure I have heard of any quiet powders that push a158 gr bullet 1200 FPS out of a 6” .357 Magnum. And it certainly isn’t any louder/flashier than H-110/W296 or 2400. The only handgun powder I have ever vowed to never use again was 800X. Those little doughnuts made Unique look like a ball powder in my powder measure (RCBS Uniflow). If you want low flash, quieter powders, I suggest full wadcutters with W231 or Bullseye loaded to .38 Special levels.

8.4 grains of silhouette is money.....

 

[Bfh_auto]

8.4 grains of silhouette is money.....

I have silhouette. What bullet are you running with that?

 

[DMW1116]

I second the Winchester 231 with wadcutter bullets loaded to 38 Special velocity.

I have a little Silhouette too but only wadcutter bullets for now. I have to look for some more bullets to go with my supply of Alliant 2400.

 

[Shivahasagun]

I'm new to loading .357 magnum, and new to loading this year period.

I'm trying CFE Pistol powder first. 6.6 grs. (6.1 to 6.9 in the Lee manual) CCI 500. 1.58 OAL. Medium roll crimp.

I ruined two cases and wasted two bullets and two primers, and powder on my first try.

#1 because I seated the 158 gr XTP to an OAL of 1.53, minimum is 1.58 so I don't know if that is safe to fire.
#2 I went from no crimp to too much and collapsed the case. Has a seated XTP, primer and powder.

My bullet puller hammer wasn't able to move either bullet so I guess these two rounds end up a wasted ninety cents

Now I read CFE doesn't work well in .357 mag.

Anyone care to guess velocity from my new model Colt King Cobra 3 inch in 70 degree air? I'm hoping to try them this week.

 

[AJC1]

I'm new to loading .357 magnum, and new to loading this year period.

I'm trying CFE Pistol powder first. 6.6 grs. (6.1 to 6.9 in the Lee manual) CCI 500. 1.58 OAL. Medium roll crimp.

I ruined two cases and wasted two bullets and two primers, and powder on my first try.

#1 because I seated the 158 gr XTP to an OAL of 1.53, minimum is 1.58 so I don't know if that is safe to fire.
#2 I went from no crimp to too much and collapsed the case. Has a seated XTP, primer and powder.

My bullet puller hammer wasn't able to move either bullet so I guess these two rounds end up a wasted ninety cents

Now I read CFE doesn't work well in .357 mag.

Anyone care to guess velocity from my new model Colt King Cobra 3 inch in 70 degree air? I'm hoping to try them this week.

You can always hammer them out....
I would love observations on your experience with that powder. I bought some but haven't used it

 

[AJC1]

I have silhouette. What bullet are you running with that?

The 8.4 load is used with my 158 grain cast bullet from the Noe mold. The Remington 158 jsp actually likes 8.6 or Max better. These are not published loads, something I tested and worked up. I did call ramshot and the first guy gave me a load and the second said it's not listed. My load is below the first responders from ramshot provided max.

 

[Palladan44]

I don't worry about the unburnt powder, it's just how 2400 is, even if loaded in the upper warm-end sweet spot, there is less of it, but it still is there.
In my early loading days, I used a very low end charge of 2400 with light bullets in 357...... They were erratic, and a ziploc-baggie full of empties yielded a teaspoon of granules at the bottom of the baggie... 2400 can be downloaded a little bit better than say WW296, but I don't like to, there's no reason to. There are better powders for any less than 85% powered loads in 357 Magnum.. heres how my loads go (I only use 158 grain bullets)

100% powered Jacketed bullets- WW296 or 300MP
90% Hard Cast- 2400
80% hard cast-Longshot or Unique
Full powered short barreled JHP- Longshot
Target- W231, or other semi auto pistol powder such as Power Pistol, BE-86, or CFE pistol.

 

[AJC1]

I don't worry about the unburnt powder, it's just how 2400 is, even if loaded in the upper warm-end sweet spot, there is less of it, but it still is there.
In my early loading days, I used a very low end charge of 2400 with light bullets in 357...... They were erratic, and a ziploc-baggie full of empties yielded a teaspoon of granules at the bottom of the baggie... 2400 can be downloaded a little bit better than say WW296, but I don't like to, there's no reason to. There are better powders for any less than 85% powered loads in 357 Magnum.. heres how my loads go (I only use 158 grain bullets)

100% powered Jacketed bullets- WW296 or 300MP
90% Hard Cast- 2400
80% hard cast-Longshot or Unique
Full powered short barreled JHP- Longshot
Target- W231, or other semi auto pistol powder such as Power Pistol, BE-86, or CFE pistol.

The last powder I really want to try is either blue dot or true blue. My line is more about what they're shot in. The 4" pistol does not seem to capitalize on the slower powders and I'll spend that extra powder for major gains in the carbine. 50 fps gains in pistol for double the powder is common in the pistol but given the much longer barrel length of the carbine major gains are realized. My bullet choices change as well to include 180s.

 

[Shivahasagun]

I'd like to get 1100-1200 fps with the 158 gr XTP from my 3 inch Colt with as little flash, blast, and recoil, and pressure on the gun as possible.

What powder should I use?

Can 700x or Titegroup get me there?

 

[Docendo Discimus]

My bullet puller hammer wasn't able to move either bullet so I guess these two rounds end up a wasted ninety cents

That inertia puller should be able to take those cartridges apart. Make sure you have a good hard surface, like a concrete floor to hit it on. It could take 12 or more hits to pull them.

 

[AJC1]

I'd like to get 1100-1200 fps with the 158 gr XTP from my 3 inch Colt with as little flash, blast, and recoil, and pressure on the gun as possible.

What powder should I use?

Can 700x or Titegroup get me there?

Faster powders are needed in a short barrel, not only to reduce flash but to get a good burn. Siholloette and be-86 both have flash suppressant and are in the burn rate area you need. Power pistol will give you the speed but will boom and light the world on fire around you.

 

[Bazoo]

A very interesting thread. Like the OP, I often like to work up loads with components I have to have a baseline and further my loading knowledge.

I've not done it yet, but I've always wanted to work up a load with WSF for a 38+p load. I ended up with a couple pounds of it during the last shortage, and have worked several loads up in 45 auto.

For 357 magnum, I have in the past, used 2400. 15 grains with a 358156 is a full power load. And 13 and 13.5 was pleasent and matched factory loadings recoil best I recall.

Now I've been experimenting with 296. I've worked up a load of 16.8 296 with a RCBS 38-150-SWC. From WW alloy, lubed with Lars 50/50. It is a full power 356 and impressive on both ends. Max listed in the RCBS manual is 17.0

I also worked up the lee 358-140-SWC, which has nearly an identicle used case volume as the RCBS 38-150-SWC. I worked the load up to 18 grains, but liked 17.4 best if I recall correctly.

 

[2ndtimer]

I'd like to get 1100-1200 fps with the 158 gr XTP from my 3 inch Colt with as little flash, blast, and recoil, and pressure on the gun as possible.

What powder should I use?

Can 700x or Titegroup get me there?

I doubt you will reach 1200 FPS with a 158 gr XTP from a 3” barrel with any available powder at safe pressure levels in .357 Magnum. You might reach it with a 140 gr JHP, and can probably exceed it with 125 gr jacketed bullets. But, 700X and Titegroup aren’t the way there. Viable options I would consider would include Accurate No. 5 and No. 7, Unique, Power Pistol. I haven’t tried True Blue or BE-86 yet, but Ramshot doesn’t even list data for .357 Magnum with their Silhouette powder, so I would be reluctant to try that without some published load data from a reliable source.

 

[AJC1]

A very interesting thread. Like the OP, I often like to work up loads with components I have to have a baseline and further my loading knowledge.

I've not done it yet, but I've always wanted to work up a load with WSF for a 38+p load. I ended up with a couple pounds of it during the last shortage, and have worked several loads up in 45 auto.

For 357 magnum, I have in the past, used 2400. 15 grains with a 358156 is a full power load. And 13 and 13.5 was pleasent and matched factory loadings recoil best I recall.

Now I've been experimenting with 296. I've worked up a load of 16.8 296 with a RCBS 38-150-SWC. From WW alloy, lubed with Lars 50/50. It is a full power 356 and impressive on both ends. Max listed in the RCBS manual is 17.0

I also worked up the lee 358-140-SWC, which has nearly an identicle used case volume as the RCBS 38-150-SWC. I worked the load up to 18 grains, but liked 17.4 best if I recall correctly.

I wanted to try that 140 swc as any time I can make a good plinking load with less resources, I'm interested. I got the 180 mold specifically to shoot steel siholloette with my dad then he passed. A 140 with 5 or 6 grains of unique would be fun and much cheaper than some of my current endeavors.

 

[Shivahasagun]

I doubt you will reach 1200 FPS with a 158 gr XTP from a 3” barrel with any available powder at safe pressure levels in .357 Magnum. You might reach it with a 140 gr JHP, and can probably exceed it with 125 gr jacketed bullets. But, 700X and Titegroup aren’t the way there. Viable options I would consider would include Accurate No. 5 and No. 7, Unique, Power Pistol. I haven’t tried True Blue or BE-86 yet, but Ramshot doesn’t even list data for .357 Magnum with their Silhouette powder, so I would be reluctant to try that without some published load data from a reliable source.

Thanks.

Over 1100 could certainly be done. Good powder for that?

 

[Shivahasagun]

That inertia puller should be able to take those cartridges apart. Make sure you have a good hard surface, like a concrete floor to hit it on. It could take 12 or more hits to pull them.

Worked! Thanks!

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Thanks.

Over 1100 could certainly be done. Good powder for that?

Good powders to try: Unique, Power Pistol, HS-6, Longshot, Accurate No.5, and Accurate No.7.

Speer says for their 135gr. GDHP-SB to use H110/W296, Accurate No.9, 2400, or Power Pistol for a 2-1/2" M19 S&W to get over 1100fps. Now, that's published data and you can probably trust it but, in my experience, with the exception of Power Pistol, if you go slower than Unique (e.g. 2400, No.9 or H110/W296) you will get a flamethrower and probably not very good accuracy. If you go faster (e.g. Red Dot, Zip, No.2 or Bullseye) you won't get the velocity and may get lots of pressure spikes at the higher end of the loading ladder. With Unique, No.5 (which probably won't get to 1100fps, BTW) No.7, Longshot or HS-6, you will get plenty of flash and recoil but you should also get your velocity target of 1100fps, or at least close enough at PBR.

A magnum in a snubby is going to have muzzle flash and recoil. There's no way around it.

 

[Bazoo]

I worked a load up using w231 and the lee 358-140-SWC in 38 special. I went to 5.0 grains and it was accurate but 4.0 was just as accurate. That out of the wife's 686. It seems to be an accurate bullet, as well as economical. It's got a nice large crimp groove so I can seat and crimp in one step.

 

[Palladan44]

"I doubt you will reach 1200 FPS with a 158 gr XTP"

It can be done with 3" at safe pressures.

 

[Shivahasagun]

A magnum in a snubby is going to have muzzle flash and recoil. There's no way around it.

Thanks!

I disagree with this part, though.

Remington 125 gr Golden Saber and 135 gr Critical Duty have low blast and flash. They are slightly reduced loads. The CD has no flash that I've seen.

Federal 180 gr SJHP also has very little flash and less blast than 125's and 158's.

These from a 1.89 in LCR barrel.

 

[AJC1]

Thanks!

I disagree with this part, though.

Remington 125 gr Golden Saber and 135 gr Critical Duty have low blast and flash. They slightly reduced loads. The CD has no flash that I've seen.

Federal 180 gr SJHP also has very little flash and less blast than 125's and 158's.

These from a 1.89 in LCR barrel.

I think your disputing different points. A 158 at 1200 fps will have recoil and some muzzle blast. Flash can be covered by suppressant.

 

[DMW1116]

Worked! Thanks!

I love it when something you’ve never tried before goes the way it was supposed to.

 

[Bfh_auto]

Thanks!

I disagree with this part, though.

Remington 125 gr Golden Saber and 135 gr Critical Duty have low blast and flash. They are slightly reduced loads. The CD has no flash that I've seen.

Federal 180 gr SJHP also has very little flash and less blast than 125's and 158's.

These from a 1.89 in LCR barrel.

Loaded to Max pressures with the same powder. A heavier bullet will always have less blast because it will have a lower powder charge and will have a more complete burn.
You you can't compare a low pressure loads to a high pressure load either.