Is there a good .270 Winchester load for the American deer woods?

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BringHomeTheBacon said:
My consideration would only be factory loads since most hunters don't handload. I've heard that 130 gr. bullets in .270 rifles have velocity that is high enough to cause significant meat destruction at close range and are best left for open plains. Woods hunting, as opposed to plains hunting, is close range. Does .270 in 150 gr. loadings do well on close deer in regard to minimizing meat waste? Close meaning 50 to 200 yards. 150 gr. is about tops for a factory .270 cartridge.

Why might one even be interested in .270? I might just happen to find a minty vintage rifle in that caliber. I'd hate to have to pass it up because .270 Winchester is simply no good for the woods.
Why did an iron-sighted lever action like Savage 99 even come in a 1925-released American caliber that is "meat-destructive at close range"?

My two favorite hunting rifles have been offered in .270 Win: Savage 99 and Husqvarna Model 3000 Crown Grade.

Has anybody here ever taken deer in the woods with a .270 and has been happy with the results when the deer carcass was butchered?

Mr. GunBlue490 said there were complaints from earlier on in the .270's long history that meat was being ruined for close shots. The Jack O'Connor-celebrated .270 could surely kill but the question was could it do so efficiently? Without the availability of a modern lowered-velocity .270 loading, the Savage 99 in that chambering becomes a thing of low feasibility for the deer woods. Most hunters won't take up handloading just to accommodate it for woodland deer. The .270 really has to be slowed down to make it woods-worthy. It's a classic case of less is more. Just as an automobile engine is detuned for EPA compliance and governed to prevent overrevving, the jolly ol' .270 Winchester has to be detuned for woods practicality. Please see video time mark 4:50 for the older gripe about the venerable .270 in the woods.

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Ummm, I've shot deer with 7 mag at close distance and blown softball size exit holes. I don't understand the meat loss thing. If you shoot the deer where you are supposed to there isn't an great meat loss, t's only front shoulder, ribs, or neck which is not the greatest cut on the deer anyway. No such thing as too dead.
 
Boattale said:
If a person is worried about meat damage, learn to shoot a deer behind the front leg and use anything with a soft expanding bullet from .223 to .460 Nitro Express. And then your worries are over.
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Would you pass up on a quartering-to shot? I believe you have to punch right through the shoulder to hit vitals at that 45-degree angle. Cowhide Cliff says shoulder damage is a moot point anyway: not much quality meat lost there.

This thread does seem to be a good discussion of deer hunting with a rifle in general. What we really want to do is save the meat we actually value.

Ok, my verdict. I would not pass up on a minty classic Husky in .270 unless I found the factory ammo to be ungodly hard to find or ungodly priced through the roof.

Here is one box I actually found online. $1.25 per pop and it's in stock. Soft point 150's:
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I use 130 gr Core Lokt or 130 gr Winchester xp in 270 Win. Works great and has for decades.

Shoot ‘em in the shoulder and it’ll mess up some of the meat. That’s not specific to the .270 though.

Shoot ‘em behind the shoulder, and little to no meat is damaged. I’ve taken deer from 20 yards to about 250 yards with mine. It’s great.

Try not to overthink it is my opinion.
 
Honestly the whole thing is over thinking it. Especially when we are talking about a middle of the road 270 since there are larger calibers more commonly used in the deer woods. I've dozens of deer with 7wsm, 308, 32 specials, 25-06 and a handful of others including pistols in my lifetime and really can't tell the difference in any meat loss. A shoulder lost is a shoulder lost whether it's butchered a little or a lot.
 
Bringhomethebacon. The point here is that your expert is not an expert. Forget him and his videos. You have had reasonable answers from people that really hunt. Not someone trying to get attention on the internet by making a point out of nothing. Just stop it.
 
Mr. GunBlue was only stating that a long time ago, circa 1925, American hunters way back then griped about the .270 Winchester for supposedly tearing up the deer meat in the woods. It now seems from all the input from folks here that a .300 Savage, a .308 Winchester or a .30-06 Springfield in the same woods would tear up deer no less for any given aiming point.

Where did GunBlue get the notion that hunters nearly a century ago damned the .270 when it was brand new? People have been damning the 6.5 Creedmoor since it was brand new too. .308 was not well received when it was new in 1952. I have never heard any American damn the .30-06, not once ever.

.270 Winchester was Jack O'Connor's baby? Can anybody please tell me why?

Very well. I rest my case on .270 Winchester. I can now happily pick up a minty Husky classic in this caliber without losing a wink of sleep before a November gun season morning in some American deer woods.
 
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Let's be honest, for a vast majority of us, hunting is a sport, it's a hobby. We're not trying to feed our families for a year on what meat we harvest during deer season. We're not hunting because we can't afford to buy meat elsewhere and have to maximize the amount of meat we do get from our deer. And truth be told, if you consider the amount of money that hunters spend throughout the year in preparation for deer season, the price per pound of venison would be astronomical. It would be much more cost effective to give up hunting altogether and purchase your meat locally with a half-cow or more.

So the fact that we're debating how to best reduce a small portion of overall meat loss due to caliber, bullet weight, bullet type, shot placement, etc seems a little ridiculous. As I said at the very beginning, this thread is a waste of bandwidth. Pick a rifle that you like, pick a hunting bullet that shoots well in your rifle, and go hunting. If you get an opportunity to shoot a deer, make an ethical shot and enjoy the fruits of your hunt. Spend less time worrying about how much meat was damaged and spend more time enjoying the experience.
 
BringHomeTheBacon said:
Mr. GunBlue was only stating that a long time ago, circa 1925, American hunters way back then griped about the .270 Winchester for supposedly tearing up the deer meat in the woods. It now seems from all the input from folks here that a .300 Savage, a .308 Winchester or a .30-06 Springfield in the same woods would tear up deer no less for any given aiming point.

Where did GunBlue get the notion that hunters nearly a century ago damned the .270 when it was brand new? People have been damning the 6.5 Creedmoor since it was brand new too. .308 was not well received when it was new in 1952. I have never heard any American damn the .30-06, not once ever.

.270 Winchester was Jack O'Connor's baby? Can anybody please tell me why?

Very well. I rest my case on .270 Winchester. I can now happily pick up a minty Husky classic in this caliber without losing a wink of sleep before a November gun season morning in some American deer woods.
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Oconner was a paid spokesman for Winchester. Much of what he said is disproved by a simple chronograph. In those gun writers were highly regarded and some still are. Not by me. Some were genuine experts and sportsmen. None are going to say, I don't know or everything is fine with the equipment you have. Thye get paid to sell you something or convince you that you aren't doing it right and that they know some secret great idea. Mostly BS.
 
JimKirk said:
The OP probably wouldn't be interested in my 80 grain TTSX .25/06 loads at 3680 fps !!!!

It is a deer killer.....
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But will they ruin meat any more than the rest of the whole line up of classic American deer cartridges in standard factory load specs? An atomic bomb will kill deer too. But what is left for the dinner plate?
 
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armedwalleye said:
Am I the only one that’s actually wondering what a 99 Savage would be like in a long action???
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Honestly, I never think of rifles in terms of long or short actions. It doesn't mean anything to me. My grandfather had a Husky in .308 which I fired at the range. I also had a Browning A-Bolt II in .25-06 with a BOSS on the barrel. I never noticed as to whether the .25-06 was more cumbersome to cycle than the .308. The .25-06 was recoil-less while the circa-1962 Husqvarna in .308 sans butt pad hurt my shoulder. I would have a PAST shoulder pad if I were to ever fire such a rifle again.

Please don't ask me about long actions or short actions. My father never explained it to me. My grandfather never explained it me. The army never explained it to me. About what percentage of American rifle hunters even know anything about it?
 
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BringHomeTheBacon said:
But will they ruin meat any more than the rest of the whole line up of classic American deer cartridges in standard factory load specs? An atomic bomb will kill deer too. But what is left for the dinner plate?
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Put in the correct place ....destroy lungs and heart .... deer usually dead right there ... 1/3 up chest right behind shoulder .... so ....no damage to main meat sources....
 
JimKirk said:
Put in the correct place ....destroy lungs and heart .... deer usually dead right there ... 1/3 up chest right behind shoulder .... so ....no damage to main meat sources....
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Very well, sir. For decades we have been hearing a bunch of gun writing about how much a certain caliber "stinks". Back in the 1980's, auto pistols "stunk" in contrast to revolvers with regard to reliability. People have been saying since the hills were young that the all-American Old 45 was king and that 9mm was garbage. There is no American deer caliber so praised as the .30-06. However, .257 Roberts was praised by a young fellow in the army back in 1990 and my Mr. GunBlue 490 considers the Roberts a warm fuzzy pet of his too. I bought a Ruger Model 77 back in 1996 in .257 Roberts. It kicked rather stiff at the shooting bench and was all over the paper at 100 yards even with a Leopold scope on. I've seen some gun writing over the years claiming the Roberts to be greatly inaccurate. That wood-stocked Ruger bolt-action was returned to Walmart soon and the manager reluctantly issued me a refund. The fore-end wood was bent left pressing against the barrel in one point. I shortly thereafter replaced it with a new Browning A-Bolt II in .25-06 with the recoil-less BOSS muzzle device and it was indeed kick-less and made a nice 1 MOA group at 100 yards offhand. The damn rifle was loud though. I got artillery ears that night after an afternoon ground squirrel shoot following a successful morning deer hunt. Mr. Rourke, my ranch-owner/operator hunting guide, commented about the noise.
 
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BringHomeTheBacon said:
Very well, sir. For decades we have been hearing a bunch of gun writing about how much a certain caliber "stinks". Back in the 1980's, auto pistols "stunk" in contrast to revolvers with regard to reliability. People have been saying since the hills were young that the all-American Old 45 was king and that 9mm was garbage. There is no American deer caliber so praised as the .30-06. However, .257 Roberts was praised by a young fellow in the army back in 1990 and my Mr. GunBlue 490 considers the Roberts a warm fuzzy pet of his too. I bought a Ruger Model 77 back in 1996 in .257 Roberts. It kicked rather stiff at the shooting bench and was all over the paper at 100 yards even with a Leopold scope on. I've seen some gun writing over the years claiming the Roberts to be greatly inaccurate. That wood-stocked Ruger bolt-action was returned to Walmart soon and the manager reluctantly issued me a refund. The fore-end wood was bent left pressing against the barrel in one point. I shortly thereafter replaced it with a new Browning A-Bolt II in .25-06 with the recoil-less BOSS muzzle device and it was indeed kick-less and made a nice 1 MOA group at 100 yards offhand. The damn rifle was loud though. I got artillery ears that night after an afternoon ground squirrel shoot following a successful morning deer hunt. Mr. Rourke, my ranch-owner/operator hunting guide, commented about the noise.
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1 inch group at 100yards...offhand???
 
Boattale said:
If a person is worried about meat damage, learn to shoot a deer behind the front leg and use anything with a soft expanding bullet from .223 to .460 Nitro Express. And then your worries are over.
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Honestly this "briefs well" but at times just isn't possible. So why not tailor the rifle/load to the most likely distance you'll encounter?

I've killed a few over 50 deer (WT, BT, and Mulies), couple elk, 5 chamois, Russian boar, American feral pigs, in terrain that varied from mountainous to open plains to Pacific NW forest where 50 yards was a loong shot. I've been on a few deer and boar drives and I've yet to see a standing broadside shot during one. There were many presentations that were not ideal, nor was their time to wait for better. Taking the shot you had meant filling a tag on a nice animal, or going home empty handed.

Why would I not want to use the best tool or load for the task at hand? Why would I want to put a 3000+ FPS bullet into a shoulder at 25yds, when I could have chosen something more appropriate?
 
slickracer said:
1 inch group at 100yards...offhand???
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That's what the guy at the range called it. The fore-end of the rifle was resting on a sandbag while my non-firing hand was crossing over and resting on the buttstock. This is how he told me to sight in my rifle. Anyways, the gun had a stock trigger. Nothing fancy. In the 1990's, 1 MOA for $650-$800 hunting rifles like my checkered wood-stocked blued Browning A-Bolt II was then par for the course.
 
BringHomeTheBacon said:
That's what the guy at the range called it. The fore-end of the rifle was resting on a sandbag while my non-firing hand was crossing over and resting on the buttstock. This is how he told me to sight in my rifle. Anyways, the gun had a stock trigger. Nothing fancy. In the 1990's, 1 MOA for $650-$800 hunting rifles like my checkered wood-stocked blued Browning A-Bolt II was then par for the course.
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That's not off hand, that's supported. Off hand is holding the rifle with no other rest or outside assistance, generally in a standing position. Using a bag sitting at the bench is supported, which most of us use when at the range to zero or get sighted in.
 
Chuck R. said:
Honestly this "briefs well" but at times just isn't possible. So why not tailor the rifle/load to the most likely distance you'll encounter?

I've killed a few over 50 deer (WT, BT, and Mulies), couple elk, 5 chamois, Russian boar, American feral pigs, in terrain that varied from mountainous to open plains to Pacific NW forest where 50 yards was a loong shot. I've been on a few deer and boar drives and I've yet to see a standing broadside shot during one. There were many presentations that were not ideal, nor was their time to wait for better. Taking the shot you had meant filling a tag on a nice animal, or going home empty handed.

Why would I not want to use the best tool or load for the task at hand? Why would I want to put a 3000+ FPS bullet into a shoulder at 25yds, when I could have chosen something more appropriate?
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Some folks might want a rifle for both the woods and the plains. It seems as the short-action cartridges are the best woods stuff while long-actions do best out in the open. It seems like it would be much cheaper to change the load specs of the ammunition for the game and shooting situation then buy another special rifle for a special shooting situation. There might be multispecies hunters. Do we have a true multispecies rifle and caliber? Some guys might shoot mulies, whitetails, 'lope and blacktails but might also shoot elk or moose once in a lifetime. What do one-12-ga.-shotgun wing shooters do to adjust for different species and shooting situations? Change loads. Change chokes. Can my 12 ga. 28" Mossberg 500 take doves well in the sunflower field over MOJO decoys? How will the same gun fare in a pheasant field or in a duck blind?

Why don't CF cartridge makers offer various short and long action caliber loadings for: Plains and Woods the way we get Dove & Quail Loads, Turkey Loads and Heavy Hunting Loads in shotgun shells?

I'm sure they could factory tailor .30-06, .308, .300 Savage, .270, .257 Roberts and 6.5 Creedmoor for optimal ballistics for the woods in one type of loading and for the open plains in another type of loading in a given caliber. It has to do with the powder charge, bullet weight and bullet type.

Some multispecies hunters may only want to use one special rifle, say in .257 Roberts, inherited from grandpa for everything big game wise. People get attached to single guns and single calibers.
 
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BringHomeTheBacon said:
Do we have a true multispecies rifle and caliber?
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Any rifle in any chambering that is leagl to hunt with in your area. There is no best for x or y other than what you shoot best and are most comfortable using. Short or long action only matter in so far as cartridge overall length is concerned. Being short action or long action does not make a rifle inherently better as a woods, plains, or mountain gun. It simply comes down to preference.

I've used 308 and 375 H&H to kill white tail and mule deer. Both worked just fine.

BringHomeTheBacon said:
Why don't CF cartridge makers offer various short and long action caliber loadings for: Plains and Woods the way we get Dove & Quail Loads, Turkey Loads and Heavy Hunting Loads in shotgun shells?
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They do, that's why we have multiple bullet weights and constructions for a given cartridge. Again, action length has absolutely nothing to do with anything other than the length of the opening used to fit a certain cartridge.

BringHomeTheBacon said:
I'm sure they could factory tailor .30-06, .308, .300 Savage, .270, .257 Roberts and 6.5 Creedmoor for optimal ballistics for the woods in one type of loading and for the open plains in another type of loading in a given caliber. It has to do with the powder charge, bullet weight and bullet type.
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They do. Not that it really matters. A premium 150gr bullet from a 308 loaded by a reputable manufacturer, or a good handload, will perform well no matter the setting. The shooter might have to take into account wind, distance, or other outside factors, but that it not a function of the ammo. We have a wider variety of ammo today, loaded for a variety of game species, than ever before.
 
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Roverguy said:
If I wanted a good rifle to hunt “woods deer”, I’d find a Winchester or Marlin lever gun in 30-30 or 35 Rem and call it done. I’ve killed more whitetail and black bear with a 30-30 lever gun, and a fair few hogs, than any other rifle/cartridge combination. Just works. I’m actually a fan of the 270 Win and love it for antelope, mountain mulies and prairie coyote. Would not be my first choice for “woods deer”.
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Thats what I was going to suggest. I made my first 30-30 deer kill a couple of years ago and was really impressed with the round and the performance of the bullet. The range was 70 yards and the deer dropped right there on the spot and was dead in just a few seconds. Next time I deer hunt it will be with the 30-30 again.

NMachine said:
Uhhh.....Browning BLR, Henry Long Ranger,
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You forget the Winchester model 88.
 
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