Nightmare scenario: Arkansas Auto Show

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So my interpretation of the OPs scenario is that I found myself in the middle of a shootout and although I'm not the target, rounds are coming in my direction. People very near where I am have been injured and the risk to my own well-being is very high. Is this an accurate summary?

So my unprofessional thoughts are as follows.
1-As in any other situation where the risk of death or serious injury abounds, make every reasonable attempt to put distance between myself and that situation.

2-If distance isn't an option, seek the best protective barrier possible and hope 911 doesn't ring busy.

3-If neither of these are an option and I'm still being fired upon, or for whatever reason the threat has followed me...then it doesn't much matter which shooter started out as the good guy or bad guy. Anyone firing at me, intentionally or not, is now the bad guy. But...

None of us will ever get a pass for jeopardizing the lives of innocent bystanders. In the event we have to defend ourselves with a weapon, the minute that happens we're no longer the good guy. So...


4-Be damn sure that you were left with absolutely no other option but to use your firearm to defend your life, before you use it to defend your life.
 
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Might want to google Emantic Fitzgerald Bradford Jr, you’ll need to ignore all the nonsense and politics and just read about the incident as it happened.

Seems pretty simple to me. Leave if possible, if not cover as best as possible until you can leave.
 
Same type of situation presented itself at a mall in South Carolina over the holiday weekend.
More than a dozen people were injured in the exchange of gunfire and last count was nine bullet wounds.

All of the injured innocents have thankfully been released from the hospital.
It reinforces need for skills for being able to quickly identify and seek both cover and concealment.

Also released from custody was one of the shooters after posting a $25,000 bail.
He is allowed to go to/from work as long as a ankle tracker remains on him.
 
I'm getting out of there as fast as possible or getting really small behind cover if I can't get away. I'm not going to engage in a crowd of people where my rounds could hit innocent people. Heck I don't even know who's good or bad among the shooters.
 
Number one for me is cover. Then assessing the situation, including the opportunities to leave the zone of action. In an outdoor setting, such as this appears to be, leaving at the first safe chance comes next. In an indoor setting, e.g. a mall, an additional consideration before trying to leave is the number of available exits, and whether the indoor shooting may be an effort to move many bodies into a cramped "killing zone" for cohorts of the active shooter.
 
shafter said:
don't even know who's good or bad among the shooters.
Click to expand...
If they're shooting at you, even unintentionally...or shooting up the area where you've taken cover, it would seem there is no more good vs bad. There are now only threats to your well being, no matter who was right to begin with.

It would be interesting to know if a person has a right to use deadly force to prevent becoming "collateral damage"
 
Howland937 said:
If they're shooting at you, even unintentionally...or shooting up the area where you've taken cover, it would seem there is no more good vs bad. There are now only threats to your well being, no matter who was right to begin with.

It would be interesting to know if a person has a right to use deadly force to prevent becoming "collateral damage"
Click to expand...
Do you have a basis for a reasonable belief that the use of deadly force is immediately necessary--the only way--to prevent your imminent death or serious injury?
 
It was a question that occured to me recently regarding an experience from years ago. It was the closest I'd ever come to being shot and the only time I had legitimate fear that I would be, even though I knew I wasn't the target. A deer was their target, but myself and my cousin were about 10 yards on the other side of the deer. We were only separated by about 30 yards from the 4 guys who were shooting, standing in a picked soybean field.

There was nothing we could do but yell and hope none of the deer slugs tearing up the ground around us actually hit us. So my question possibly strays from the thread somewhat, but it made me wonder.
 
If you're caught in the crossfire between 2 shooters; I'd think getting down and attempting lateral movement would be the first order of action. Getting below and out of the line of fire, attempt to find cover.
If you just picked one actor and returned fire, you still have one shooting at your backside.
 
Double Naught Spy said:
You and the people around you are being shot up by one or both of the gunmen who aren't trying to shoot you
Click to expand...

I am not sure it matters much if you were not intending to shoot me.

That said, “My Move” would be away from danger and towards safety. If my only path is past someone shooting at me, they would likely be in as much danger as I would be.
 
Suppressive fire from multiple RGOs could have ended the threat quickly IMHO.

As someone who’s lived in a city that had a mass shooting in it (the largest on record) you can bet that if more people poured fires on that hotel window, especially with rifle, it could have knocked out the goblin before he did more harm.
 
As I read the responses to the op's scenario My only though is: everyone thinks they will have all the time in the world to asses the situation, and come up with a great master plan. The few times I have witnessed violent acts they are over very quickly. A person would be hard pressed to have time to figure out who is doing what before it is over. Most people would be hard pressed to figure out what is going on and get out of the immediate threat before it was all over.
 
JCooperfan1911 said:
Suppressive fire from multiple RGOs could have ended the threat quickly IMHO.

As someone who’s lived in a city that had a mass shooting in it (the largest on record) you can bet that if more people poured fires on that hotel window, especially with rifle, it could have knocked out the goblin before he did more harm.
Click to expand...

Suppressive fire (spray and pray) seemed to be what got a bunch of people shot at the auto show.

[
 
Double Naught Spy said:
The small town (<5000 people) of Dumas, AR was hosting an auto show in promotion of non-violence in Dumas when a gun battle broke out. Yes, the juxtaposition is staggering. Be that as it may, violence did break out and a gunfight apparently between two individuals resulted in one dead and 28 additional injuries with reports varying with upwards of 20 people actually shot. One suspect is in custody and they are apparently searching for the other. This thread is NOT about discussing those particular events. I am just offering it up as a unique scenario backdrop. I am sure there will be other threads on this topic elsewhere. Please don't debate this actual developing news story.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...-arkansas-car-show-state-police-say-rcna20761
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...rkansas-shooting-outside-car-show/7109558001/

This got me to thinking about the situation of the surrounding non-fighters. We have discussed several times the merits and lack of merits in intervening in somebody else's battle. You don't know who is the good guy and who is the bad guy and the legal ramifications can be staggering if you assist the wrong side and don't have a great attorney.

So there you are at a similar event in Hypothetical, USA and find yourself in the middle of a numerical mass shooting event (not arguing what is or is not a "mass shooting" except to note that there are many people being shot). You and the people around you are being shot up by one or both of the gunmen who aren't trying to shoot you as far as you know, but with their spraying and praying, that is exactly what is happening. You don't know who is good or who is bad, but you are definitely suffering incoming fire.

What is your move? Aside from seeking cover, are you returning fire to stop the fusillade coming in on you? This isn't an issue of whether or not you intervene in somebody else's battle. You ARE within the battle already. What is your decision tree leading up to you attempting to stop those injuring you or deciding not to stop those injuring you?
Click to expand...

What makes this REALLY personal for me is that now retired with my wife.

WE are likely at the same venue as you describe it.

I am bound to protect her,and she cannot run.

So the actions I take will be for her safety ---- period.

As long as no one shoots toward her,I am in cover position with her.

Good guy,bad guy = do not harm my loved ones.
 
Latest episode of this technique at the Buffalo, NY supermarket today (with reportedly ten killed) will perhaps yield lessons. Details still rather sketchy and developing so individual thread not yet practical.
 
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