calling all optics experts

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/electrical-tape-is-this-a-bad-idea.895135/

Here be many recs!

Pricey, but nice….

https://www.wihatools.com/torque-control-drivers-handles-blades/torquecontrol-tools

A tork wrench that measures in inch pounds, with the correct socket, allen, or whatever is needed to apply to the object being tightened. The Fat Wrench worms great for this.

Unless you regularly mount high end scopes it probably isn't worth the expense to buy tools to measure the torque. One piece of advice that I've found helpful is to insert the long end of a hex wrench into the screw and use the short end to hold onto as you tighten the screws. With so little leverage on the wrench, it is all but impossible to get the screws too tight.

Honestly not trying to be a butt, but it is a 3-9X scope, not 3X9. Once you understand how the terminology works it makes sense. A 3-9X scope is a variable scope that can be adjusted between 3X up to 9X. Often the objective size is listed as well and 40mm is a common size. So, 3-9X40. Or 4-14X50 etc.

Fixed power scopes are usually just listed as 3X, 4X, 6X etc. If the objective size is listed, it comes after the X. So a 4X40 scope is a 4X scope with a 40mm objective. A 3X9 scope would be a fixed power 3X scope with a tiny 9mm objective.

This is what I use...

https://www.wheelertools.com/gunsmi...crewdrivers/digital-f.a.t.-wrench/710909.html

This is what I use:

https://www.amazon.com/Neiko-03727A-4-Inch-Torque-Wrench/dp/B01FMXEWQC/

Clicker wrenches need recalibration, as the spring changes ‘set’, and I don’t know anywhere to get that commercially accomplished. Beam wrenches, used properly, are much more stable over time.

rbernie said:

This is what I use:

https://www.amazon.com/Neiko-03727A-4-Inch-Torque-Wrench/dp/B01FMXEWQC/

Clicker wrenches need recalibration, as the spring changes ‘set’, and I don’t know anywhere to get that commercially accomplished. Beam wrenches, used properly, are much more stable over time.

Click to expand...

I use a couple fat wrenches, but a friend of mine who is into high-end bicycles suggested I get one of those for the same reason as well.

I have the Wheeler Fat Wrench in analog and digital, have the Vortex torque wrench, and have the Fixit Sticks variable torque kit as well as a handful of limiter sticks.

The Fixit stick version is my favored option.

Ruining even the least expensive of my scopes costs as much of more than the tools above, as does wasting ammo chasing your tail with warped scope tubes which aren’t behaving as they should.

The only thing expensive about inch pound torque wrenches is not having one.

Sometimes I wonder how the shooting world managed to mount scopes without damage before the advent of the inch pound torque wrench. It seems as though it is now impossible to do.

I mounted scopes on a number of rifles for 30+ years without a torque wrench. I never ruined any scopes and nothing ever loosened up. I use a Wheeler Fat Wrench now.
For the price of the wrench vs the price of a scope I feel better knowing its right.

-Jeff

One thing I will say, do NOT use a Harbor Freight torque wrench. Should have known better, but tried using one for mounting a scope. Never clicked and buggered the cross bolt on the mount. Thankfully, Primary Arms is awesome and sent me the needed parts to salvage the mount at no cost. Before anyone asks, yes it was the inch/lb one not the larger ft/lb ones.

I like Harbor Freight for alot of tools as I'm not a heavy user and I'm a cheapskate, but any "precision" tool I'd steer clear.

doubleh said:

Sometimes I wonder how the shooting world managed to mount scopes without damage before the advent of the inch pound torque wrench. It seems as though it is now impossible to do.

Click to expand...

1) They've had torque wrenches you can go to the store and buy, for a century.
2) Lots of lower-precision torque tools. The short/long side of allen keys is very very roughly torque implying. You will still see some things (like scope rings) that say to use the allen key and twist till the long arm starts deflecting.
3) Things loosen and break a lot, then and now.


To the OP's core question:
I like Fix It sticks. Not too expensive either for the value and how much use I get. I specifically like these, individual torque limiters so no mistaken setting, mis-reading, etc.
https://store.fixitsticks.com/products/small-torque-limiters?variant=3515669020685

Some other suggestions above are the same, one wrench for one torque level. I started with a Craftsman adjustable inch pound wrench; it worked, reliable, etc but adjustment is a whole thing and to cover the whole thing it's big so a bit of a handful for the smaller sizes. a 2 pound tool when torquing to 15 in-lb is... not optimal.


I have lots of stuff that works better torqued properly, not just scopes. But also: find tool nerd friends like me and go mount scopes at their house. People I know, even tradesmen who I make weld stuff for me, don't all have all tools so come borrow my bench, levels, and torque wrenches to get things mounted up sometimes.

shoobe01 said:

1) They've had torque wrenches you can go to the store and buy, for a century.

Click to expand...

Yes, they did but until several years ago I never knew anyone that used one to mount scopes and no one seemed to ruin a scope or even strip threads except in rare instances. Then it suddenly became the only method to use or you were going to ruin something. I think a lot of it is that most people now have little or any experience with mechanical work. Muscle memory plays a part with tightening fasteners and not many people develop that in today's society. Don't get me wrong. I have owned and used torque wrenches for over 50 years and they are absolutely essential for a lot of work. Saying this reminds me of my two years underground as a mechanic in a potash mine. I was a welder but sometimes had to break out wrenches in the rare times when something didn't need to be welded back together. A lot of the bolts were large allen head bolts made of air hardening steel and our "torque wrench" for these was one person holding the allen wrench and another hitting it with a cut off handled 10# double jack until it wouldn't move anymore. Any less and the bolts would loosen quickly.

jmr40 said:

Unless you regularly mount high end scopes it probably isn't worth the expense to buy tools to measure the torque. One piece of advice that I've found helpful is to insert the long end of a hex wrench into the screw and use the short end to hold onto as you tighten the screws. With so little leverage on the wrench, it is all but impossible to get the screws too tight.

Click to expand...

There's probably a reason for that below...

doubleh said:

Yes, they did but until several years ago I never knew anyone that used one to mount scopes and no one seemed to ruin a scope or even strip threads except in rare instances.

Click to expand...

Prolly something to do with changes in scope requirements / dimensions.

I wager that the standard tube diameter "way back when" was an inch at the most.

Now we have the advent of longer - range shooting which brings tube diameters up to 34mm, maybe even 35mm.

These are larger lenses in larger - barreled scopes.

Smaller tubes are harder, while larger tubes are easier to crush...

You can Science The Heck Out Of It here.

Thusly - only give bubba the thinner scopes, he's less likely to mess them up

Did a quick Google review of typical WW2 scope diameters...

...16mm to 27mm!

Or maybe...

...it's because of the bureaucrats and lawyers!

rbernie said:

This is what I use:

https://www.amazon.com/Neiko-03727A-4-Inch-Torque-Wrench/dp/B01FMXEWQC/

Clicker wrenches need recalibration, as the spring changes ‘set’, and I don’t know anywhere to get that commercially accomplished. Beam wrenches, used properly, are much more stable over time.

Click to expand...

I managed a calibration shop for several years.
There are places out there.
Unless you are using it a lot and on a commercial capacity, probably not worth persuing.

doubleh said:

until several years ago I never knew anyone that used one to mount scopes

Click to expand...

New to you doesn’t always imply new.

I was taught to use torque limiters on EVERYTHING touching a firearm optic and mount by an old head which took me on as an apprentice nearly 25yrs ago, and most of his tools were older than my parents at the time…

I’ve also seen since then countless threads on forums like this and dozens of rifles come to my workbench, all with the same puzzlement - “not sure what’s going on, it’s shooting all over,” - and then a quick troubleshooting exercise of removing and reinstalling the optic, rings, and base solves it. Either loose, torqued, warped, what have you, improperly mounted optics are a problem.

But maybe this fallacy that “we did it wrong for years and everything was fine,” is a contributor to why so many “modern manufacture” rifles and optics are found to be so much more accurate than rifles of the past? Maybe it’s a contributor to why so many folks are so easily shooting smaller groups or longer distances than we common, or even thought possible by generations passed… maybe we’re doing better things these days because we’re doing things better… sure seems to make sense to me…

doubleh said:

Sometimes I wonder how the shooting world managed to mount scopes without damage before the advent of the inch pound torque wrench. It seems as though it is now impossible to do.

Click to expand...

Torque application tools are not a recent invention, so yes, they used them then and now as well. There is guessing and there is not guessing.

You can calibrate your own wrench using a known weight in the middle of the wrench range and an extension to hang the weight from. Or use a local service or if a pro mechanic it is usually done at work or you hand it to the SnapOn feller/lady. Google the subject, turns up tons of videos.

3C

Analog Wheeler FAT wrench for me. Love it.

Varminterror said:

New to you doesn’t always imply new.

Click to expand...

Defination of "knew": having experience of.

Defination of "new": having recently come into existance.

Slight difference between my "knew" and your "new". I simply posted was was done in the past and why I though it worked most of the time back then but thanks for posting your experience and thoughts on the subject.

3Crows said:

Torque application tools are not a recent invention, so yes, they used them then and now as well. There is guessing and there is not guessing.

You can calibrate your own wrench using a known weight in the middle of the wrench range and an extension to hang the weight from. Or use a local service or if a pro mechanic it is usually done at work or you hand it to the SnapOn feller/lady. Google the subject, turns up tons of videos.

3C

Click to expand...

doubleh said:

Don't get me wrong. I have owned and used torque wrenches for over 50 years and they are absolutely essential for a lot of work.

Click to expand...

This sentence in post #16 should have clued you in to the fact that I know a bit about about torque wrenches

Years ago I bought a torque wrench and enough hex and 6 point sockets to cover scope mounting. I don't remember the name but at the time they made Snap-ons wrenches. I remember it was rather expensive. But at the time I was working on $1200+ actions and $100+ rings!

To be honest, on a steel action with steel rings, a lot of times I just tighten them by hand just by feel.

doubleh said:

This sentence in post #16 should have clued you in to the fact that I know a bit about about torque wrenches

Click to expand...

Then your question in post number 12 makes no sense.

doubleh said:

Sometimes I wonder how the shooting world managed to mount scopes without damage before the advent of the inch pound torque wrench. It seems as though it is now impossible to do.

Click to expand...

The calibration part of my post was for the OP or in general, not specifically you.

Moving on and not meant as a response to @doublleh, but instead to whoever. Yes, there were optical sights before there were torque wrenches as we know them today.

Torque wrenches in general use came about circa 1930s. Before then angle torque or calculated torque (pitch and turns) would have been used and before that machines were so crude as it did not matter and were probably designed such that the expectation would be assembly without torque measurement. I guess they used rocks and clubs or more likely skill and mechanical aptitude. Not sure what steam engine mechanics of the 1800s used but diesel mechanics use torque wrenches as do most professional mechanics. A skilled mechanic can feel the stretch, even on small fasteners. A hobbiest mounting a scope for the first time, possibly not.

Model T automobiles came with a "Ford" wrench and with that wrench it was said the Model T could be overhauled. Not sure about that but I have my grandfather's Ford wrench and still use it.

We just returned from some boating and diving on Table Rock Lake. I was in the Bass Pro there and back at the gun counter I watched a BP employee mounting a scope on a 1022 for a customer, new scope and rifle. He buggered the plug screws and the rifle receiver with a multi tool type driver too large for the screws. Then he buggered up the scope screws stripping one. This is the same store where last year I asked one of the employees working the tackle counter what lures were the in thing for TRL? He responded "how should I know?" My response was because you are a bass pro, it says so on your shirt. The gun counter guy was not a mechanic and the tackle guy was not a pro and I bet neither could mount a scope, well, one demonstrated he could not. I do not assume every person is born with mechanical skills, though most, not all, can learn. Yes, I have taught mechanics.

For what it is worth, I am an engineer, A&P, and I use a torque wrench on just about everything.

3C