Four 2A Appellate Court Cases Vacated by SCOTUS

denton · Jun 30, 2022

Four cases decided by appellate courts were "GVRed" by SCOTUS today. These decisions upheld an open carry ban, an assault weapon ban, and two magazine capacity restrictions. GVR means granted, vacated, and remanded. SCOTUS just scuttled these unfavorable appellate court decisions and instructed them to re-reason them according to the procedure given in Bruen.

Big win for us.

Aim1 · Jun 30, 2022

Wouldn't it be better for SCOTUS to take at least an assault weapons and high capacity magazines case soon and rule on it in case the anti-gunners wait until they have a more favorable SCOTUS lineup and pass a law and then send it to SCOTUS and it gets ruled on and we lose the right to possess so-called Assault Weapons and high capacity magazines because of a new SCOTUS that has a liberal majority?

denton · Jun 30, 2022

Aim1 said:
Wouldn't it be better for SCOTUS to take at least an assault weapons and high capacity magazines case soon and rule on it in case the anti-gunners wait until they have a more favorable SCOTUS lineup and pass a law and then send it to SCOTUS and it gets ruled on and we lose the right to possess so-called Assault Weapons and high capacity magazines because of a new SCOTUS that has a liberal majority?

I don't know the answer to that, but I think this strategy puts the burden back on the appellate courts with the option of SCOTUS overturning their new decision if it is not rightly done.

ilbob · Jun 30, 2022

The lower courts need to start obeying the law and the Constitution. The supreme Court just does not have the resources to go over every possible nuance of every possible case that a lower court gets wrong. Lower courts are supposed to take care of that so they don't get to the supreme Court. But they have not done a very good job of abiding by the supreme Court's decisions with respect to the second amendment.

GEM · Jun 30, 2022

The gun positive justices are unable to conceive of what the opposition will do with their ambiguous BS in their decisions and concordant support statements. The NYSPRA super duper victory will be voided if the new legislation using the blather about sensitive spaces comes in effect. There will be little practical carry and undoing the legislation will take a long, long time. Thomas or Alito drop dead and there's a new court before 2024.

The lower courts will do their best NOT to give relief on the bans and then SCOTUS will diddle around for a couple of years to actually make a clear decision on the bans.

Sorry to be pessimistic but Heller had a fatal flaw on weapons bans. Folks said - OH, that's Scalia's brilliant strategy to have later cases that would void the bans. NEVER happened. The same thing is being said now on the bans and the sensitive places issues. It was a brilliant trap set by Thomas to .... blah, blah. I don't think so.

Hope I'm wrong but if you don't learn from history and Clarence seems not to have.

General Geoff · Jun 30, 2022

I'd be surprised if even one of the four cases gets a pro-2a overturn at their respective circuit courts. Every last one of them will be upheld AGAIN, with different reasoning thrown at the wall, and all will have to be appealed AGAIN to SCOTUS before there is a reasonable chance of actual overturning.

denton · Jul 1, 2022

GEM said:
The gun positive justices are unable to conceive of what the opposition will do with their ambiguous BS in their decisions and concordant support statements. The NYSPRA super duper victory will be voided if the new legislation using the blather about sensitive spaces comes in effect. There will be little practical carry and undoing the legislation will take a long, long time. Thomas or Alito drop dead and there's a new court before 2024.

The lower courts will do their best NOT to give relief on the bans and then SCOTUS will diddle around for a couple of years to actually make a clear decision on the bans.

Sorry to be pessimistic but Heller had a fatal flaw on weapons bans. Folks said - OH, that's Scalia's brilliant strategy to have later cases that would void the bans. NEVER happened. The same thing is being said now on the bans and the sensitive places issues. It was a brilliant trap set by Thomas to .... blah, blah. I don't think so.

Hope I'm wrong but if you don't learn from history and Clarence seems not to have.

We probably have a good decade or so to wait to see how all this unfolds. You may be right. But I'm much more optimistic.

Justice Thomas was careful to stipulate that the presumption is that 2A applies unless it cam be shown that a law does not violate the simple language of 2A and that similar laws have been accepted for a long time. Designating the sidewalks as sensitive places won't stand under that standard. Prisons, courtrooms, mental hospitals, and a few others would probably stand, but not parks.

Hey, I should bet you $20 that I'm right. Then, at least if you're right, I'll have an extra $20.

C0untZer0 · Jul 1, 2022

General Geoff said:
I'd be surprised if even one of the four cases gets a pro-2a overturn at their respective circuit courts. Every last one of them will be upheld AGAIN, with different reasoning thrown at the wall, and all will have to be appealed AGAIN to SCOTUS before there is a reasonable chance of actual overturning.

I agree with this.

The belligerence of the circuit court judges and their open disdain for the Constitution and the Supreme Court is stunning. There is no respect for decorum, no respect for the traditions and institutions that make up the justice system. Many of these circuit court justices feel that they answer to a higher calling. They are trusted by the public with upholding the Constitution, but their attitude that their personal values trump the Constitution betrays the trust that the public has placed in them.

Many of these cases will end up before the Supreme Court again and Justice Thomas will be re-explaining in detail what "normal and ordinary" means when reading the Constitution.

CapnMac · Jul 1, 2022

A number of those cases hinged on things now decided in Beruen.
The CA case revolves around using "two step" analysis, which is now Right Out!
A couple of the others require inequal divisions of otherwise Equal people. Also, Right Out!

Basically, SCOTUS is inviting the lower Courts (some of these are vacated back to District level) to go, "uh we have to follow new rules now, let's not dum this time."

In some ways, it's a master stroke. Giving these thing back, not to the appellate process, but to their original Courts also puts the Circuit Courts "on notice" too. No passing the buck up to SCOTUS, you have been told to "fix it."

We will have to see.

Spats McGee · Jul 1, 2022

CapnMac said:
A number of those cases hinged on things now decided in Beruen.
The CA case revolves around using "two step" analysis, which is now Right Out!
A couple of the others require inequal divisions of otherwise Equal people. Also, Right Out!

Basically, SCOTUS is inviting the lower Courts (some of these are vacated back to District level) to go, "uh we have to follow new rules now, let's not dum this time."

In some ways, it's a master stroke. Giving these thing back, not to the appellate process, but to their original Courts also puts the Circuit Courts "on notice" too. No passing the buck up to SCOTUS, you have been told to "fix it."

We will have to see.

Yes, but . . . . These cases may or may not be resolved quickly. There are a few basic paths that I can think of that a case could take from here.

Back to Ct. of Appeals, Ct. says, "We were wrong, here's a correct opinion," and it's done.
Back to Ct. of Appeals, Ct. says, "We had it right the first time, but let us tell you the other reasons it's right."
Back to Ct. of Appeals, Ct. says, "We don't have enough of a historical record to make our decision yet. -> Back to trial court with instructions to develop a historical record, allowing the parties to kind of try the case again.

We should also be aware that we could head back into what I think of as the "fermentation period." After Heller and MacDonald, SCOTUS got pretty quiet as far as gun cases went. I suspect they were waiting for the circuits to develop some case law, to see if there was a circuit split. At some point, they may do this again.

Four 2A Appellate Court Cases Vacated by SCOTUS

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