.45 ACP small primer?

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I saw them back in 2000 when I started collecting 45acp brass. Most back then were either Fed or Blazer. By 2005 a lot of indoor gun ranges switched over for health/safety reasons for their employees.

I throw all of the SP in a separate tub for when I run out of LPP. As for the load difference between SP vs LP, I see a 15-25 fps loss in velocity with the SP. Now if you look at the flash holes on the NT, the size is all over the place. During testing early by the mfg, the NT primers had a tendency to back primers out. Which is why they were crimped.
 
Blue68f100 said:
I saw them back in 2000 when I started collecting 45acp brass. Most back then were either Fed or Blazer. By 2005 a lot of indoor gun ranges switched over for health/safety reasons for their employees.

I throw all of the SP in a separate tub for when I run out of LPP. As for the load difference between SP vs LP, I see a 15-25 fps loss in velocity with the SP. Now if you look at the flash holes on the NT, the size is all over the place. During testing early by the mfg, the NT primers had a tendency to back primers out. Which is why they were crimped.
Click to expand...
Interesting.

As for crimping…ALL the WIN NT & Federal NT 45ACP cases I have had been crimped (~50 total).

But, NO other 45ACP SPP cases I have had been crimped and that’s ~2000 Blazer, Speer, Federal, FC, GFL.

And, I’ve never seen any other brand marked NTs whether SPP or LPP.

So, I agree, there appears to be something about the primers.

As for flash holes, I’ve seen two sizes in NT, jumbo (Federal only, but not all Federal) & small (regular). I find the same mix in all other non-NT 45ACP SPP cases.
 
I have heard that the spp in the 45 ACP allows for a little higher pressure,(it must be true I read it on the internet).
 
I like using them on a progressive loading machine, as it eliminates the need for changing the priming system from small to large primers.

Also, if I use the large primered brass and a piece of small primer brass gets on the machine, I have a hug mess when the small premiered brass encounters a large primer. If I use small primered brass and a piece of large premiered brass gets on the machine, I have a small mess of dribbled powder to clean up.
 
When I first got onto 1911's, before I got set up to reload 45acp, I was buying Federal 45 ACP at WalMart. Boxes of (50) were LPP while the boxes of (100) were SPP. For whatever reason.
 
frogfurr said:
When I first got onto 1911's, before I got set up to reload 45acp, I was buying Federal 45 ACP at WalMart. Boxes of (50) were LPP while the boxes of (100) were SPP. For whatever reason.
Click to expand...
I didn’t know that but that’s exactly what and where I bought 45ACP before they abandoned us here in northern Virginia! Got me into reloading.
 
NuJudge said:
I like using them on a progressive loading machine, as it eliminates the need for changing the priming system from small to large primers.

... If I use small primered brass and a piece of large premiered brass gets on the machine, I have a small mess of dribbled powder to clean up.
Click to expand...
I like loading the small primer cases because if a LPP case sneaks in I can feel the lack of resistance when priming and I don't end up with a mangled primer. I just pull the case and set it aside
 
They work just fine and I've loaded them with SPPs and SRPs and seen no noticable difference. As the majority of my 45 brass in LPP, I've traded a bunch of them away over the years to guys that like them.
 
I have reloaded and shot the 45 with SPP, and like others I have not seen any difference in performance, I have found the SPP cases in Federal brand, but no others. I only have one box of 50, and when they’re shot I will leave them at the range. Just too much hassle separating after the cleaning process with other 45 cases.
 
I think shooters have noticed more velocities differences between cast lead bullets and plated bullets, than they have noticed going from large pistol to small pistol primers in the 45 ACP. And in changing powder lots.

Rock Island Arsenal GI M1911 RIA 5" barrel

230 FMJ 7.8 grs AA#5 Lot DM WLP OAL 1.265" taper crimp 0.469"
13-Sep-18 T = 82 °F

Ave Vel =815.4
Std Dev =18.02
ES =68.22
High = 847.6
Low =779.4
Number shots =28

230 RMR FMJ 7.8 grs AA#5 Lot DM small primer brass WSP OAL 1.265"
taper crimp 0.469"

10-Jun-20 T = 91 °F

Ave Vel =805.6
Std Dev =12.56
ES =39.38
High = 822.4
Low =783
N =16

It would take a statistical test to determine if there were any differences in the velocities populations above. Considering that the averages are well within the extreme spreads of both groups, I consider any differences to be a wash.


M1911 Les Baer Wadcutter

200 Xtreme Plated SWC 4.0 grs Bullseye Lot 907 6-20-2005 WLP Brass mixed cases
23-Mar-16 T = 72 °F OAL 1.250" Taper Crimp 0.469"
oiled cases

Ave Vel =686.8
Std Dev =26.32
ES = 91.37
High = 730.4
Low = 639.1
N = 14

accurate, functioned and slide locked back


200 LSWC (H&G 68 type) 4.0 grs Bullseye Lot 919 11/2005 WLP Nickle, mixed cases
8-Jun-15 T = 91 °F OAL 1.250" Taper Crimp 0.469"
oiled cases

Ave Vel =742.9
Std Dev =9.89
ES = 33.19
High = 760.6
Low = 727.5
N = 20

200 LSWC (H&G 68 type) 4.0 grs Bullseye Lot 907 6/20/05 WLP, mixed cases
13-Sep-18 T = 75 °F OAL 1.250" Taper Crimp 0.469"

Ave Vel =715.6
Std Dev =10.86
ES = 37.6
High = 735.4
Low = 697.8
N = 15
 
jmorris said:
Winchester is all over the place.

View attachment 1093328
Click to expand...

I collected enough large flash hole WW2 30-06 brass, tested the stuff over a chronograph, and the large hole brass gave higher velocities. Only had a few cases though, and they were not all head stamp. But I am certain that hole sizes make a difference in how much flame gets to the powder. Stands to reason, less of a barrier, the faster the flow.

Got to wonder if the different hole sizes are because of function issues, or because Winchester was using any old primer punch that day.
 
Looks like a first generation Winclean headstamped NT.
I think the large flash hole WW is second generation Winclean. They enlarged the flash hole to vent the hot Dinol burn into the case.

Third generation Winclean is where the small primers came in.
 
Slamfire said:
I collected enough large flash hole WW2 30-06 brass, tested the stuff over a chronograph, and the large hole brass gave higher velocities. Only had a few cases though, and they were not all head stamp. But I am certain that hole sizes make a difference in how much flame gets to the powder. Stands to reason, less of a barrier, the faster the flow.

Got to wonder if the different hole sizes are because of function issues, or because Winchester was using any old primer punch that day.
Click to expand...
Hate to say I believe it’s the latter. Some of theirs don’t come close to centered some days.
 
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