Hornady LNL and high primers

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nraman

nraman

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I have been having a problem with high primers for sometime and judging from the internet posts, including this forum, I was not the only one.
I did some checking and I have come up with a couple of opinions that I would like to share, not implying that these are the only reasons for the problem given the many variables including primer diameter and case primer pocket diameter. I have run into some European pockets and primers that are smaller than US but that's not what this post is about.
What I found is that in my LNL, if the primer is perfectly aligned with the primer pocket, it will go in with a firm push and it will be flush or below.
The problem is that to be aligned, the little balls under the shell plate must be fully in the little holes with no play. If the balls are not fully engaged, they allow a very small misalignment between the case and the primer.
There are some reasons why the little balls don't engage fully.
The ball doesn't stick out far enough because the owner pushed them back to avoid powder spilling when the shell plate snaps in to position or bad factory installation etc.
The other reason is a shell plate with too much up and down play that allows the little balls to engage partially. This problem could be the result of a mismatch between the sub plate and the drive hub.
The thickness of the drive hub flange controls the position of the sub plate and if the flange is not thick enough, the shell plate is not held firm against the sub plate and the balls don't engage fully.
Some people resolve this problem by adding shims on the drive hub flange, I called Hornady and they do make at least one more drive hub with thicker flange which they shipped to me for free.
I no longer have the problem, unless I fail to push the handle firmly enough forward. The LNL doesn't have great leverage when it comes to seating the primer.
Let me know if you need additional information.
 
LNL give different people different problems; I have loaded 110,607 rounds on my LNL's the only problem I ever have was with Large primers used on 45 ACP rounds. Once I fixed the alignment that problem went away. I use any primers I can buy US or foreign. If you don't think the Hornady handle gives you enough leverage try a handle from Inline Fabrication.

https://inlinefabrication.com/colle...ever/products/ergonomic-roller-hornady-lnl-ap

This a good tool to have for the alignment check.

https://www.bragginrightsprecisionr...cp-master-pawl-and-primer-slide-adjusting-kit
 
I had high primer issues early on with my L-N-L and tried several things to correct it. People are full of ideas and suggestions, but nearly all those failed to improve the primer seating on my machine.

Only two things seemed to improve primer seating on my L-N-L. First was shimming the drive hub (just a few thousandths as I recall). The second improvement came from a combination of press mounting and operating technique. The press inherently has a fairly low amount of priming force available. So making sure the press is mounted solidly on a stout bench is important. And when seating primers make sure to push the handle smoothly and very firmly until strong resistance is felt. It even helps to pull on the back of the press frame with the left hand as you push on the handle with the right hand when seating primers, effectively increasing the overall force applied through the handle.
 
I have a ProJector... the LNL's predecessor. I do have a problem with proud primers... but only in .41MAG.

There is a knack to getting the shell plate bolt torqued just right... not to tight, where the shellplate drags, and not too loose where the shellplate deflects and you have issues seating primers, and with shellplate snap. I can hear my shellplates rotate, and if the ball detents drop in... otherwise I just bump it with my finger when I go to insert a new case, no problem.

I have not solved the high primers in just the .41's, however. It might be built up crap in the primer pockets, because even when I reseat them with my hand primer, they still don't rebate in the slightest. It might be slightly out of spec primers, dunno. I'm going to empty all my .41 brass, and then run them across the Lyman case prep machine and uniform the pockets... and see if that solves the issue.
 
BBarn said:
It even helps to pull on the back of the press frame with the left hand as you push on the handle with the right hand when seating primers, effectively increasing the overall force applied through the handle.
Click to expand...

Until you shear the handle off... like I did. Hornady sent me a new one... :)
 
The priming system on my LNL has never given an issue since I bought it years ago and spent a bit of time adjusting it. The only thing is the divot on the frame and I just use a .010 feeler gauge to cover it. As it gets a divot I just move it a little.
 
I truly appreciate this thread.

My presses are RCBS and Dillion.

I’m not trying to be a snob, but some of you will take it that way.

I’ve hand primed with a RCBS hand primer. I’ve used the Rockchucker to seat primers and I’ve used the Dillion. Seating primers consistently is one step I focus on when making quality ammunition. For center fire rifle I have come to the conclusion that consistent, firm pressure on the Rockchucker is every bit as good as handpriming.

And on the Dillion, if it doesn’t feel “right” I inspect before dumping powder.

I know this doesn’t really help the discussion except to say buy green or blue.

Sorry.
 
nraman said:
I no longer have the problem, unless I fail to push the handle firmly enough forward.
Click to expand...
Welcome to THR! I’m not sure if you are just looking for confirmation of your situation or something else. One thing you didn’t mention is the timing aspect of the LNL. If the pawls are not set correctly the plate will not advance to the point where the detents take over and settle in. The other thing to check is make sure there’s no debris in the primer punch assembly. A small piece of brass or lead can get hung up in there preventing the punch from making a full throw.
When I started getting more crimped 9mm primers, the LNL would actually prime them without removing the crimp first. And yes, as you point out, the “depth” adjustment on the priming system is the amount of force you apply on the handle.

I’ll second the suggestion of getting the Inline Fabrication Ergo handle.
 
Reeferman is right. If the press is set up correctly it primes easily and I can feel the primer going in. Some people seem to think you have to slam the primers in with a Hornady, I can push my small pistol primers in with two fingers on the knob. That's all it takes and I get .003" under every time.
When you push the handle hard your deflecting the shell plate, and forcing the ram sideways, if that's even possible.

As far as the balls in the shell plate go, they can be adjusted up or down to get the feel you want and to get a positive engagement. Just use a punch the same size as the hole so you don't ding up the lip that holds the ball in.

I didn't have any problems with my LNL-AP priming until around 60-70k when I had to put a piece of metal over the dimple and I'll never have to touch it again.
 
Make sure the shell plate bolt is TIGHT, If not it will have slop in it and will not allow primers to seat correctly. Can even lock up the plate as the primer is hanging down a little

I put a lock washer on mine.
 
kalielkslayer said:
I’m not trying to be a snob, but some of you will take it that way.
Click to expand...

Not at all... what works, works. FWIW, the absolute best primer mech I've ever used is the top of press primer I got with my RS3 press back in the 80's, and that I think has been discontinued. Nothing matches it for ease of use and primer seat. Having said that... 99.9% of the time, my RCBS Universal does the same thing with less effort, in half the time.

Like the others have said, you can feel the primer seat on the LNL/ProJector... absolutely. It operates almost the same way my top of press mech works, just in reverse (at the bottom of stroke on return.) Like any mechanical devise, it just has to be set correctly. In my case... that is, high primers only in .41... but not in any other cartridge, LP or SP, that I load for... which points easily to either the cases themselves, or the shellplate. Next time some .41 loading comes up, I'll probably address the issue... it's likely an easy fix. :)
 
kalielkslayer said:
I know this doesn’t really help the discussion except to say buy green or blue.
Click to expand...
I really doesn't help much because the the best priming machine out there has recently changed...and it isn't blue or green...and it's Sunrise Red

1. It has a casefeeder
2. Primers feed from a tray, not a tube
3. It has great "feel" as each primer is seated below flush
4. It doesn't require separate shell holders/plates for different calibers...you do have to change the primer ram between SPP and LPP
5. It ejects primed cases automatically

It is the Lee Automatic Case Primer (ACP)
 
9mmepiphany said:
I really doesn't help much because the the best priming machine out there has recently changed...and it isn't blue or green...and it's Sunrise Red

1. It has a casefeeder
2. Primers feed from a tray, not a tube
3. It has great "feel" as each primer is seated below flush
4. It doesn't require separate shell holders/plates for different calibers...you do have to change the primer ram between SPP and LPP
5. It ejects primed cases automatically

It is the Lee Automatic Case Primer (ACP)
Click to expand...

Do you use the same press to deprime with the additional kit??

https://leeprecision.com/automatic-case-primer-press.html
 
kalielkslayer said:
I truly appreciate this thread.

My presses are RCBS and Dillion.

I’m not trying to be a snob, but some of you will take it that way.

I’ve hand primed with a RCBS hand primer. I’ve used the Rockchucker to seat primers and I’ve used the Dillion. Seating primers consistently is one step I focus on when making quality ammunition. For center fire rifle I have come to the conclusion that consistent, firm pressure on the Rockchucker is every bit as good as handpriming.

And on the Dillion, if it doesn’t feel “right” I inspect before dumping powder.

I know this doesn’t really help the discussion except to say buy green or blue.

Sorry.
Click to expand...

Everyone is different I loaded 34,332 rounds on my SDB and 550 then moved to Hornady loaded 110,907 rounds so far on my LNL's. Dillion makes good gear but it is definitely not perfect and I do have a lot of RCBS equipment also.

I know you have not used a LNL primer, but you can feel the primer seating on a LNL just like on the 550, SBD or any of the Green items.

Most people if the primer seating doesn't feel right check it before moving on.
 
9mmepiphany said:
I really doesn't help much because the the best priming machine out there has recently changed...and it isn't blue or green...and it's Sunrise Red

1. It has a casefeeder
2. Primers feed from a tray, not a tube
3. It has great "feel" as each primer is seated below flush
4. It doesn't require separate shell holders/plates for different calibers...you do have to change the primer ram between SPP and LPP
5. It ejects primed cases automatically

It is the Lee Automatic Case Primer (ACP)
Click to expand...
I just watched a utube video of it, that looks sweet!
 
nraman said:
I no longer have the problem, unless I fail to push the handle firmly enough forward. The LNL doesn't have great leverage when it comes to seating the primer.
Click to expand...
It has good leverage, most people think they can seat the primer deeper by reefing on the handle. All they are doing to bending things to get the primer in deeper.
Did you try to adjust the timing on your machine to get the shell plate to move further so the balls can click in?
It's the pawl on the left, back it out about 1/16 turn at a time and if you here something starting to catch when running the handle up and down you backed it out to far. I keep mine right on the edge.
adjust that before trying to adjust the balls. I've noticed with Hornady shell plates that if anything, the balls are set out to far and click in to hard. I'm surprised yours is to soft.
 
tightgroup tiger said:
It has good leverage, most people think they can seat the primer deeper by reefing on the handle. All they are doing to bending things to get the primer in deeper.
Did you try to adjust the timing on your machine to get the shell plate to move further so the balls can click in?
It's the pawl on the left, back it out about 1/16 turn at a time and if you here something starting to catch when running the handle up and down you backed it out to far. I keep mine right on the edge.
adjust that before trying to adjust the balls. I've noticed with Hornady shell plates that if anything, the balls are set out to far and click in to hard. I'm surprised yours is to soft.
Click to expand...
The pawls were adjusted by me when I bought it, they are good. My problem had to do with the drive hub. Once I got a new drive hub from Hornady, things started working. The drive plate stops with the balls full in, the shell plate is solid in position. It takes a lot more than two fingers to seat a pistol primer. I have an ergo handle that I no longer use because I got a custom made handle from inline fabrication that is taller than the press and gives me extra leverage.
At this point, if there is something that prevents better alignment, it would have to be the sub plate detents machined wrong.
 
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