Check out the Webley MK VI we found on an insurgent

Very interesting! Thanks Orion,be safe

British didn't have a whole lot of luck in Afganistan (except for Gunga Din) and were pretty heavily envolved with the whole Arab world for a good long time (not all of Larwence of Aragia is BS)...add in India next door (back then, was just india, no Pakistan).

But to find one of those old guns still in service...speeks well of the quaility of the gun produced (and a troubling political thought about the will of the generations who used it).

Super pictures. That cylinder needs a little help.

Sad to see old fella in sorry shape - tho good ones are less easy to find anywhere. Certainly surprising to find one there!! It probably has a history back to WWII or even earlier and was probably a war trophy that has travelled (a lot!).

For sure the ammo would be problematic - I load for mine and only shoot it occasionally. It was not in great shape and needed a rebuild and two new springs - after prep'ing it only got (multiple) cold blue but has kept pretty well providing kept with a good lick of CLP externally.

Don't forget that Iraq was the post WW1 creation of Great Britain, made-up of ex-Turkish mesopotamian provinces. Policed by the Royal Air Force between the wars, occupied during WW2 by the Brits due to pro-Axis sympathies and given full independance after with a British equipped army, it's not suprising to see a Webley mk IV. Ammo for this is still made by Fiocchi I believe, although if you told me the former owner had ammo from WW1 manufacture I woulntn't be suprised. Sad that the gun is in such poor shape. Suprised you don't see more Lee Enfields over there.

nice capture, i've heard some stories of crazy stuff taken from insurgents.

as for the edged weapons made of spring steel, you might be thinking of the Kuhkri knives made by the Gurkha warriors. the knives were forged out of old leaf springs, and were amazingly sharp and deadly in the hands of the skilled warriors.

confiscation or oppression?

I have no idea how you could be sure, however, please be circumspect in your confiscation of weapons from what may be some civilian just trying to protect his family and himself from the radical terrorists!

That old handgun, while it might present a threat to some U.S. soldier, may be that man's only means of self defense against the heavily armed "insurgents" that we are warring against.

I would be more inclined to percieve a man as an insurgent if he had an accompanying military weapon of some sort, rather than that old antique.
Did he in fact possess other weaponry?

I keep all of you in my daily prayers, and after you return home; all of you, let's begin to inquire as to what has happened to our former Army and Marine Divisions; that now we have to rely on Reserve and National Guard for the brunt of the nation's defense.
I'm concerned here. It was the perception by the Japanese before WWII; that we were "weak" in military strength, that contributed largely to the confidence of our enemy that we could be attacked, as we were, successfully.

Our government, and elected representatives, have failed in their primary duty to provide for the nation's defense! While you men are in a far off land, your families and neighbors are sitting here; vunerable.
My intention is not to make you anxious, but something must be done, while there is time.

I salute you all.

Jim Thomas

Mr. Thomas,

The U.S. Constituion and specifically the 2nd Amendment doesn't apply in this situation or region. By the way... every swinging member of this population is legally allowed to keep one REAL AK47 in the house for home defense. I don't think that half the counties in the U.S. allow that kind of protection.

"I would be more inclined to percieve a man as an insurgent if he had an accompanying military weapon of some sort, rather than that old antique.
Did he in fact possess other weaponry?"

Your inclination and perception would be best steered towards a personal meeting with your Maker if you stumbled across the working end of this revolver in a real life situation. It might not be new but there is nothing non-lethal about this revolver.

The "salute" you offer is ambiguous at best.

zogorion,

What you have found is indeed a military weapon from either the 1st or 2nd World War. The Brit's have had a few incursions in and around the area with some victorious and others with a real sad outcome. They lost a lot of good men fighting in The Gap.

WOW! Never know what you will find in a war zone.

That Webley has certainly been 'beat all to hell', but I STILL would not want to be on the business end of it.

burred-up screws, broken grips, dings on extractor star, etc

It didn't look all that beat, to me, with the exception of the broken grip. It definitely looks like it have a fair amount of honest, or maybe dishonest, wear.

How did the bore look? If it's in good shape, that pistol might not have been fired since it fell of the back of a truck (or whatever) in the '30s or so when it was taken.

Stay safe.

James;

Although I obviously don't know the circumstances of this find, I'm pretty darn sure that there was more than reasonable suspicion that the holder of this was a scumbag. The rules of engagement are VERY clear as to what our soldiers can do or not do.

-John

I'm pretty darn sure that there was more than reasonable suspicion that the holder of this was a scumbag. The rules of engagement are VERY clear as to what our soldiers can do or not do.

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I suppose the story is still "Need to Know" only? Always interesting to hear how folks came across these things (no details of time or place needed).

We once came by a BHP in a way that had me smacking my head against the wall, as it was rather accidentally confiscated from someone who wasn't causing any trouble.

Back in the early stages in Iraq, one of our platoons found a BHP on the driver of a vehicle, and the LCpl on the spot didn't know what to do. The Lt happened to be walking by, and decided it was best to clear the pistol, give it back to the driver, and pantomime to him not to reload it until he got through the checkpoint.

Problem was, said Lt only knew the M9 (Beretta 92) and couldn't figure out how to clear an SA pistol (probably left the safety on). He told me later that while he was fiddling with it, the driver became very agitated and just pantomimed "Keep the dang thing and let me go!" They let him roll off and brought the pistol back to HQ: no receipt, no name, no way to get it back to the owner. Pretty big misunderstanding all around.

In areas I worked in, I tried to encourage the juniour Marines "if he's not worth bringing in, his gun's not worth bringing in." But we'd still get plenty of cases where a Marine would confiscate a shotgun from a shepherd and give a receipt, shepherd goes right to the shaykh and files a complaint, and the very next meeting we have with the tribe, the shaykh brings in a list of names of folks who need their guns back, and that he vouches are good-to-go. Very odd business all around.

I would say that I'm glad we don't have these problems here Stateside, but I guess since last fall things have changed a bit.

-MV

Zogorion:

Amen.

Stay safe over there. I, for one, appreciate all you're doing over there.

Interesting find. How was the bore of the Webley? I'm still interested, if you know that trivial detail.

-John

Medmo:

I hesitate to offer any reply, and was not going to, except for your parting remark about the percieved sincereity of my salute.

It's a salute of one combat veteran to another. And that man knows, he knows, it is heart felt. Now I know a lot of posters here have ficticious or embellished military backgrounds, however, please refer to my personal data and you will see the D company, 2/7 , First Air Cav. It was the most decorated unit that fought in the Vietnam War. The "Cav" went into the Khe Sahn debacle and rescued the marines under siege there. My delta company was the one annihilated on 12-03-68; that is part of the military record, and can be reviewed on .military.com, if you will tolerate their cookies when you register.

I went over my post, and for me it is difficult to convey my tone of voice, inflections and all, that is part of face to face voice converstion, so I will excuse you for misunderstanding some of my post, but do not question my sincerity until you have walked a mile in my moccasins.

If you are cynical, I will gladly provide you email adresses of two suriving seargents; highly decorated -multiple silver stars, purple hearts, etc. who I email correspond with, and who were there with me when I did face my Maker and heard the wings of the Angel of Death -many times over.
Let me know. I'm sure these men will be glad to set the record straight.

Zogorion:

I'm glad you did not misunderstand my post! It certainly was not meant personal to you. My concern was that our military was not being used to disarm a civilian population in order to pacify it for some Isalamic regime to control. And them being without the right to keep and bear arms to reisist and protect themselves.
I had heard that they were permitted to keep the AK's, but needed that confirmed. And I was not implying that the old pistol could not be deadly either.
The VC guerrilas had many old arms, particulary at the beginning of the war, and they took their toll of GI's with them too. It was just that even over here in the USA; with all the war -media coverage, that it can be seen that the Iraqui's are well armed with current "small arms," and so the less likelyhood of that revolver playing a part in any military action.
Thanks for the input about the owner being mental, and justifyably therefore; being disarmed. My salute to you and your men again sir.

James T Thomas


Sincerely,
Jim Thomas

To all the real supporters of "Zogorion's Antique Weapon Collection and Vestal Virgin Dissappointment World-Tour 2005-2006"

I say: "Keep on rockin' in the free world." Neil Young

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I don't think Neil Young's song projects the idea you intend.

Zogorian, nice pistol and thanks for sharing it with us. James T, thank you for your service and there is a political forum on this site, might wanna check it out.

Zogorian, are there tour t-shirts available? But seriously, that's an unexpected find for sure. Thanks for sharing it with us. Stay safe! (Use enough ammo... if'n ya run out.... we'll take up a collection and send more!)

Damn that's a historical item and deserves preservation. :banghead:

If it's going to get destroyed how about stripping the parts from it and sending them on over.

Try to drop a .45 round in the chamber. LOTS of these were punched out to fire the .45.


Kevin

Try to drop a .45 round in the chamber. LOTS of these were punched out to fire the .45.
Kevin

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It will fit fine, the modification only shaved off the back of the cylinder.
I'm pretty sure I can use moon clips as a spacer and fire .455 webley which I need to check on.

zogorion,
Those Enfield MK Vl revolvers are still produced up on the Pakistan/Afghanistan border.
They make ammunition for the guns up there too.
If your 'insurgent' is a Taliban come down to recruit and/or train furture 'insurgents' on how to reach Paradise you guys may want to turn him over to Intel ASAP.