Gang Defense Strategy Question

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kungfuhippie

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A friend emailed me this story today. I was wondering what you'd have done as one of those girls. I for one would have not set foot in a place full of gang members. And if I was in that situation I don't think a weapon (maybe an automatic shotgun) would help much. What do ya'll think? I am at a loss of how to defend my self in a situation like this.
This is diversity at its best (article in the Long Beach Press-Telegram newspaper, word for word):


Victims of attack share their story
Crime: 10 arrested after attack on Halloween; $2,500 reward offered for information about other suspects still at large.
By Tracy Manzer, Staff writer
Article Launched:11/03/2006 10:52:39 PM PST

LONG BEACH - Several suspects including at least three men who savagely beat three young women in a horrific hate crime attack Halloween night remained at large Friday.

The three victims - two of whom are 19 and the third 21 - agreed to sit down with a Press-Telegram reporter and discuss the painful attack in the hope that someone who knows the culprits will turn them in to police.

The young women asked to be identified by only their first names of Laura, Michelle and Lauren because they and their families fear for their safety. The assault, they said, was so savage they thank God they are alive.

`A pack of hyenas'

The victims - along with throngs of other people - had gone to the 3800 block of Linden Avenue around 9:30 p.m. for a popular Halloween block party. As they walked up to an elaborate haunted house, they said, a group of about a dozen males began taunting them.

"They asked us, `Are you down with it?,' we had no idea what that meant so we didn't say anything and just walked by them up to the haunted house," said Laura, "They were grabbing their crotches - we didn't know if it was a gang thing or what."

After making their way through a maze at the house, the three girls said they were back in the same spot where they were confronted and next to the same guys, who again taunted them. Still saying nothing, the three victims tried to walk away but were pelted with lemons and small pumpkins that split the seams on their costumes and left lumps and bruises on their bodies.

The taunts and jeers grew more aggressive, the victims recalled, as did the size of the crowd. Now females joined in, and everyone began saying "We hate white people, f--- whites!"

At this point, the girls began to run, but the pack of assailants ran ahead of them and kept them surrounded.

"It was like animals, like a pack of hyenas," Michelle said.

She was trying to call 911 on her cell phone when the taunts began, but kept getting busy signals. She tried three times to call, she said, but never got through to an operator.

The suspects also began to gradually separate the girls, first by grabbing Laura by her long hair and yanking her backward.

She said she tried to fight off a group of girls who surrounded her and were clawing and hitting her, but then a man came up and slammed her in the head with a skateboard, knocking her unconscious.

"One of the witnesses told the police that he saw my legs go straight up in the air and I hit the ground face first," she said, accounting for the bumps and bruises on her forehead and around her nose and eyes.

Her friends watched, horrified as the man raised the skateboard over his head and slammed her again as she lay on the ground. Others in the pack also began to hit and kick her motionless body.

Fearing their friend would be killed, the other two girls rushed to her aid.

Saved by a Samaritan

Lauren was the first at Laura's side, and a group of people immediately jumped on her and began punching her in the face and back of the head simultaneously. Some kicked her in the back of knees, causing her legs to buckle. At one point, when they got her cell phone away from her, Lauren said she knelt down to try and retrieve the phone.

"Once I knelt down, there was too much of a force on top of me to get back up," she said. "They were pounding on my back, on my head. ... They were kicking at the ball that was me."

Lauren suffered 12 fractures in her face, including four to her eye socket, three to her nose and three to her cheek.

Doctors don't yet know if she will regain all of her eyesight. Until the swelling goes down, they won't know if she'll require surgery to repair the many broken bones.

Forced to drop her college photography classes this semester because she cannot see well enough to use the camera, Lauren also can't blow her nose or sleep lying down. The pressure, doctors told her, could cause any of the fractured bones to shift, which could lead to her eye becoming detached from the shattered socket.

Michelle said she saw the group drag Lauren down as she rushed up and knocked the man with the skateboard off Laura. But then he then turned on her, punching her in both sides of her face and in the ribs.

Her face, like Lauren's and Laura's, is bruised and swollen. The lining that surrounds her lungs is also bruised.

As the man beat on Michelle, Laura regained consciousness and tried to pull him off her friend. But others in the pack immediately began to hammer at her again, she said.

She, like Lauren, suffered a concussion as well as multiple contusions. The lumps and marks on the back of her head and her back show where she was stomped, kicked and punched as she lay on the ground.

In all, the attack lasted about 10 minutes, and it ended only when a Good Samaritan driving by the melee stopped and physically blocked the battered girls bodies while yanking the assailants off the victims.

Maybe because he was also black, or because he was so tall and strong, the group broke up and scattered to several cars and fled, the victims said.

"If it wasn't for that guy, honestly, I don't think these two would be here today," Michelle said.

Shortly after the attack, police arrested 10 juveniles on a charge of felony hate crimes, including counts for assault with a deadly weapon, battery and robbery.

Some of the 10 youths - nine girls and one boy ranging in age from 12 to 17 - were found wearing the victim's earrings - which were ripped from their flesh - and had Lauren's cell phone.

Others still at large

The victims were able to identify all 10 but said there are several others who participated who remain at large. They estimated that at least 25 people took part in the attack, while witnesses who live on the block told police the crowd looked to have between 30 and 40 people.

"I heard these thumping sounds and all these people yelling "F--- whites, f--- whites!" said one resident who witnessed the attack.

She spoke on condition of anonymity, fearing the assailants might return to her neighborhood and attack her and other witnesses.

"I have such mixed feelings," she added. "I'm so ashamed that I didn't try to run out there and stop them, but it was terrifying."

"I've never seen anything like that in my life," she added. "I can't even describe it. I'm still terrified."

She said she called 911, along with several of her neighbors, and screamed frantically for help as a dispatcher tried to calm her down. North Division officers found the 10 youths not far from the scene of the crime in a grocery store parking lot.

One girl's mother said she doesn't blame witnesses who were too frightened to intervene.

And she and the other mothers said over and over how grateful they are to the man who saved their daughters' lives.

"I can't imagine," Barbara said, her eyes shining with tears. "I can't imagine anyone doing that to another human being, or even an animal."

Now the mothers are working with police and imploring the district attorney's office to prosecute the youths as adults and to seek the harshest sentences possible. They have raised $2,500 for a reward fund so far, and are taking more donations in the hope it will spur someone to turn those responsible in to authorities.

Most of all, the girls and their mothers want the three men - who appeared to be in their early 20s - to be arrested.

A team of detectives have been assigned to the case, and the police response has the victims and their families confident that the men will soon be found.

Anyone with information about the suspects or the incident is urged to call police at the Youth Services Division, at (562) 570-1426, or Violent Crimes Division, at (562) 570-7250.

"Anything anyone can do, please help," said one of the mothers. "These people ... they don't belong in society."

Tracy Manzer can be reached at [email protected] or (562) 499-1261.
 
Since half my original post was deleted for supposedly being "off topic political commentary", ( which i consider a total crock by the way, it had more to do with arbitrarily and inconsistently applied 'p.c' being the real cause ) I'll delete the rest myself.
 
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And, yet, had not the gumption to gfo after the initial encounter. Sounds like Darwinism to me...
SatCong
 
In the DPRK 911 does have a busy signal. Cell phones have a different 911 system than land lines here too. I've called 911 to report a brush fire while driving, and a washing machine, ladder, mattress in the freeway where it can cause massive accidents. I've never gotten through on the first try. Reason enough to get the CCW! But that would have not helped those girls. Probably naive, or a product of public school where you "don't judge a book by its cover"

But yeah, avoidance is the best protection.
 
In a situation like that a firearm is a must. In their case, since none of the girls were armed, they should have just left right away when they were first approached. They were just stupid.... plain truth....

They should have never gone there by themselves. Call this racism if you want, but why in hell would you go to an all black (or any race) party without a black friend or at least knowing somone there?

Personally, if that happened to me, I would have drawn my gun out right away. And you would be surprised in situations like that the effectiveness of what a simple gun presentation can do. Most people in rawdy groups act tough in numbers but there aren't too many heros that won't back away when looking at a barrel of a gun. If they insist on closing around you, you better start blazing because if they get to you, you're in a world of hurt. When you got 20 people approaching you like that, there's no doubt your life is in danger.
 
There's no busy signal on 1911.

There is a busy signal for your cell service. Cell phone companies sell some 10x more plans than they are capable of handling.
 
As one of those girls:
1. I wouldn't have gone there.
2. If I went there anyway, I'd have left immediately when things looked hinky i.e. pretty much as soon as they arrived
3. I'd have had a gun and shot some people, particularly after the skateboard thing. I've dealt with the type of individuals involved and they are conditioned to scatter at the sound of gunfire, both from fear of getting shot and also because gunfire brings the police.

I don't believe in blaming the victims, but those girls screwed up all over the place.
 
Vern, I agree.

This is what irks me to no end. First off, Long Beach. Though I do not know, still this being CA makes me suspect as to how gun friendly this area is. Second, the ages of these victims; 19 and 21. Meaning "If" this area is gun friendly and "if" issues CCW, the 21 y/o having one could have changed this outcome right fast.

I would really like for some RKBA organizations to contact these ladies, these 3 ladies could do a LOT for dispelling myths of gun control, and promoting so much we on THR believe in.

S&T for what did occur:

Having at least one male in this group of 3 girls may perhaps have drawn less attention to 3 girls. This is going to come out "wrong" but if college ladies, and if they had been with more folks attending they knew, and of different races, it may have drawn less attention to them.

Any kind of legal means such as OC spray. Again, I do not know legal restrictions.
Martial Arts of some kind.
Flashlight, I am speaking of a 3 cell Mag-Light . This fit more hands better, and easier to hold onto, in the event someone's head runs into it.

No. 1 Should not have been there.

I say this without knowing if they knew folks that ran this house well or not. Does not matter. Halloween is like New Years Eve, Amature Night and one is best to not be out, and if they are, making darn sure they KNOW to whom they are with, and how safe the area is they will be in, and to have back up plans if out.

Still think the ladies should be contacted and if receptive being spoke persons for our beliefs, proving Brady and Politicians wrong.
 
Not sure. The fact they were unarmed(and I would not have been) added to the fact of me not being there to see any of the physical layout makes it a tough call.

At the very least you'd need to get yourself some kind of cover somehow. Back against a wall or car, back into a doorway etc., to limit thier angles of attack. This is assuming there's no way to effectively outrun your attackers. And sometimes sheer numbers can work against a big mob, as no single individual can get lined up correctly for a direct attack. This factor most likely saved thier lives in this case.

A handful of car keys, a bottle off the street, any improvised weapon, with the correct mindset would have helped. Most people are so shocked by violence, and they are so far behind the curve, that it's almost impossible to recover.

MOST IMPORTANT-
By thier own admission, they had all kinds of little alarm signals. They ignored them. Bad idea.
 
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Yeah, and there are potential busy signals on wireline phones (plain old telephone service) also. All it takes is one large aw-**** and the balloon goes up and the lines are all full, result is a "fast busy" signal indicating no available trunks to take the call.
 
The race thing is simply an indicator, remember the sesami street song;

"One of these things in not like the others" when you don't fit in you should really be aware.

I wonder if a person would really be safer with a gun in this situation, I know it works great to deter 1-3 crooks but 30? <get ready to vomit> couldn't they just take the gun away from them?
 
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As they walked up to an elaborate haunted house, they said, a group of about a dozen males began taunting them.

"They asked us, `Are you down with it?,' we had no idea what that meant so we didn't say anything and just walked by them up to the haunted house," said Laura, "They were grabbing their crotches - we didn't know if it was a gang thing or what."
Translation: "We are going to either gang-bang you white girls, or we're going to beat you half to death and then gang rape you - take your pick."

Time to leave, then and there.
The taunts and jeers grew more aggressive, the victims recalled, as did the size of the crowd. Now females joined in, and everyone began saying "We hate white people, f--- whites!"
Obviously a race-based hate crime.
In a situation like that a firearm is a must. In their case, since none of the girls were armed, they should have just left right away when they were first approached. They were just stupid.... plain truth....

They should have never gone there by themselves. Call this racism if you want, but why in hell would you go to an all black (or any race) party without a black friend or at least knowing somone there?
Yup.

By the time the beatings began, there was no fighting back - unless it was with a Glock full of HPs.
Being good California sheeple girls, they were of course unarmed.

This is like going into a biker bar wearing a teeshirt that says "Harley riders suck." Eight shades of stupid...
 
Ben,

Great post! How true it is about the "shock" factor. MSM , Brady, Politicians and other are brainwashing folks, "it won't happen to me" , and assuring folks "we have your safety in mind" with surveillance cameras and all.
We have a society that does not know the realities of life. Therefore when something does occur " this can't be happening, because they said it wouldn't or they were going to keep me safe."

I just have a mind picture of the ladies having a sit down with some folks "we" on THR do not subscribe to thinking and policies.

I have a mind pic of these ladies in busted up shape with a caption:

Blind faith in your leaders will get you killed.
 
A couple of you guys read too fast for your own good. Vern said, "There's no busy signal on 1911." 1911. As in the handgun. Not 911, the emergency number. The implication is "While there may be a busy signal for 911, there will not be a busy signal trying to reach the weapon at hand." No need to explain trunks and such.
 
To quote The SEAL sniper on Discovery : "Navy SEALs : Direct Action"

"When they see one of their friends almost get torn in half by a Multi-Purpose round, that explodes on both steel and flesh - that's enough for them."

I think that a single miss with a .22lr would have ended that situation.

JE223
 
"and everyone began saying "We hate white people, f--- whites!""

stick together. move forward. If necessary, shoot forward. That'll clear them out. keep momentum and gfo.


A couple of you guys read too fast for your own good. Vern said, "There's no busy signal on 1911." 1911. As in the handgun. Not 911, the emergency number. The implication is "While there may be a busy signal for 911, there will not be a busy signal trying to reach the weapon at hand." No need to explain trunks and such.

aaahahahahahaha. I fell for it too. Psych majors-- what's that called? something bias. or, priming? :eek:
 
Long Beach=Los Angeles County=no concealed carry permits, unless you are rich and famous.

Long Beach is also fairly affluent, but, I'm not familiar with that block.

Yes, the girls did EVERYTHING WRONG. Lambs to the wolves. Hope they heal well, and, now, we have 3 more conservatives.

S

PS: To take from Chris Rock: the most racist people in the world are old black people. How do you think that affect their kids? I work in such 'ghetto' schools at times, and, you HAVE to be constantly aware of your surroundings, and situation, and, hope to avoid such situations.
 
Long Beach is also fairly affluent, but, I'm not familiar with that block.

Long Beach is nice in a few areas:scrutiny: but each year it becomes more and more ghetto. MY Aunt lives in the "nice" :rolleyes: area. about 1/2 mile any direction and you're in the less desireable areas. Get about a mile away and it's pure ghetto. Living in a community like that should include a few lessons of where to avoid and who to avoid (If it quacks like a duck)

Yet another reason why I'm filing for a divorce from the "Golden State"
 
Socrates,

Thank you clarifying political climate and CCW availability. I was afraid of this.

I do not want to "play the race card". I do not want to "play the rich/affluent card". My reading of COTUS, BoR has never brought out anything about Restrictions due to Race, Creed , Financial Status or anything else.

Strategy & Tactics :

Educating folks about Rights, so they are better armed against MSM, Political views, Legislation that threatens their Rights.

Changing current Restrictions to Restore to the People Right Restricted already and prevent more restictions.

Once Educated, one is better armed. These ladies, got an un-expected fast track education curricula.

Now I hope, I really do hope they recover fully, and also they can use this situation to educate others to prevent the same - and to promote RBKA and other things we believe in .
 
Please note the ages of the girls, 19, 19 and 21. Legal CCW wasn't possible for 2 of the 3.

Please note that the attack started after they ignored the warning signs when they went in and after they came out and were surrounded. They went to the "party" in a group. Young women are told that there is safety in numbers and that they should party as a group so that no single one of them can be culled and attacked. But that dynamic only works when dealing with a single attacker or with non-violent "predators" so that the other girls can pull the enamored one back to the safety of the herd. When the numbers advantage shifted they were not prepared for the threat. Why did this occur? This is not a "race" issue and yet it is. Had it been 3 young black or Hispanic girls entering into a situation where white racists were present the same thing could have happened. They simply entered into a situation where they were other in the midst of a large homogenous group of young people that immediately saw them as other than "people". If the larger group had been heterogeneous they might not have been at risk. Regardless, they would have been well served by recognizing that any time you find yourself standing out in a crowd you're at risk of being considered by the group as "other".

Note that they were calling for help instead of teaming up and fighting their way clear of the ambush. Only after the attack moved to the next level with the skateboard attack did they actually start to fight. Not understanding that they were subject to this level of violence may be the basis. Therefore no tactics and no technique and no decisive action.

So what did they do wrong? They failed to recognize the signs of trouble. They didn't know how to detach and withdraw. Instead they actively tried to ignore their tormentors, which could be taken as a challenge. They expected help to arrive as soon as they called for it. Realizing that the police don’t come out of the phone when the 911 operator comes on line is important for all our loved ones to understand. For some amount of time you are completely on your own. They didn't know that they were in a fight for their lives. They were sheep in the midst of predators. Had they had a gun amongst them they may have fought their way clear, but there's no guarantee. At the least they might have had a chance.

Thank heavens for the Good Samaritan.
 
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Just a reminder that this is the Strategies and Tactics forum. Political commentary isn't appropriate here. Start a new thread in Legal and Political if you want to talk conservatives vs. liberals, prosecution or news coverage of race based hate crimes. Please confine the discussion in this forum to the Strategies and Tactics issues involved.

Also let's try not to use sheeple as a deregatory term. I hardly think we'll convert many people who surf in here looking for self defense information if we call them names right away.

Jeff
 
hso,
You summed it up well.

Software not Hardware.

That cell phone they had, and tried to use , reminds me of so many folks that feel having a firearm is a magic talisman.

So many lessons can come out of this event if people will just read, and think about it from a Software point of view.
 
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