VERY, VERY SERIOUS QUESTION

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armedpolak

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Please, I don't mean to sound like DOOM & GLOOM. I simply want to ask a serious question which has been occupying my mind ever since I got into guns.

We all have SHTF scenarios. I have a KAHR MK9 *on* my night stand, H&K P2000 *in* my night stand, and AK-47 + 2x30round mags under my bed. I'm sure I'm ready to take on any gurglar/rapist/murderer who dares to breake in AS FAR AS FIRE POWER is concerned. That's fine. We all have out preference and I respect that.

BUT. We THR-ders very often discuss the posibility of total gun ban and confiscation here in the USA. We also very often state "from my dead cold fingers". But have we really thought about it? What would YOU do if it came to that? Would you fire at the government agents knocking on your doors? Would you bury your best guns for later, once enough people decided to overthrow the ultra-liberal government?

I've been thinking about this a lot lately. I pray I would have the courage to pull the trigger to defend my God given rights. Even if it ment my doom. But I also think that, as nobel as it may be, it might not be the best course of action. So, in my oppinion, the BEST thing we can do, is get as many people together as we can. It's easy to knock down then doors and take out one or two people. It's not as easy to take out a group of thousands. At least it doesn't appear as politically correct. It's easy to label one guy a *terrorist* or *the enemy of the great socialist state* (yea, I heard that a lot in Poland in the 80's). It's difficult to justify a slaughter of thousands (not that is stopped governments in the pasy anyways, but still, maybe I'm naive).

So here's my final question and thought...
DO WE, GUN OWNERS HAVE A GLOBAL PLAN TO DEFEND OUR GOD GIVEN RIGHTS??? How about an agreed upon location to get together if SHTF from the government? Can we come up with a plan, to which millions of us gun owners would agree, that if SHTF we sould get together in specified locations and fight together, rather than being assasinated one by one in the middle of the night by secret police?

I'm asking those questions, because I would feel much more comfortable knowing that other people are willing to go as far as I am or further to defend our rights. I would like to have the comfort of knowing that there are millions of us, who would stand by each other and fight.

I don't know what got me into asking this online. I guess I feel it's an important question that we all need to answer, if we are really serious about that we believe in.

AP
 
My Constitutional Law professor told us today what his father told him...

"90% of the things you worry about will never happen."

Not saying that it can't, and that it doesn't hurt to be prepared, but I wouldn't lose sleep over the idea of JBT's coming for me in the dead of night because they know I have a couple weapons.
 
They are not going to slam the gavel and start taking guns away from the whole american population in one fell swoop but as always be prepared. Find a way to bury those guns of yours in sealed containers. Google "cat sneeze rounds" to use some of those guns if youv'e a mind to. Stop worrying.
 
I doubt you could get thousands of gun owners to agree on something let alone millions. Which is a huge part of the problem.
 
Polak

I have read many of your posts, and I know that you have seen first hand, and lived through some real crap that most of us in the U.S. could never understand, so I will not treat this as another gloom and doom thread and give you a real honest answer.

First and foremost, I know that my plan will depend on many factors, too many actually to even have a concrete plan. Next, it will take having supplies (ammo, food, medical supplies, etc) safely hidden before anything even gets remotely hairy. I don't think that an agreed upon plan is viable for the above mentioned reasons. If or when the SHTF, if there is resistance, it will be from small groups of people. It may or may not grow from there to larger groups. Look at the American Revolution, there were a very small number of people who stood up against the odds, and because their cause was appealing at the time, and the situation was so dire, and the timing was just right, for them to be successful. There is an old saying that is as true today as it was thousands of years ago: Strike when the iron is hot.
 
If SHTF, we're all supposed to meet at the Big Boy's restaurant at 1881 Kiowa Avenue in Lake Havasu City, AZ at 7:45 am.

Battlepacks of 7.62 NATO will be distributed, along with whatever body armor is available. Those attending will have to pay for their own coffee, eggs or burgers, though.

armedpolak, I don't mean to make light of your question. It's one that's been asked here a zillion times.

My answer: I don't know. Ask me if or when things really start going south, and I'll give you a more definitive answer.

Maybe I'll do something, or maybe I won't. Or maybe I'll realize that I'm not capable of doing something.
 
It is important that tyrants believe that we will be irrational, that we really WILL cut off our noses to spite our faces. Deterrence works, but the stand off has to be genuine. Those missles in the silos were real, the keys turning would really launch them. I pray that those in power stay certain and sure that we can be a bit insane.
 
This thread will probably get locked, but here goes anyway...

We also very often state "from my dead cold fingers". But have we really thought about it? What would YOU do if it came to that? Would you fire at the government agents knocking on your doors?
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Absolutely, without hesitation. My hatred for those who would attempt to disarm and enslave me is extreme and FAR out of proportion to any fear of death I have.

We're all going to die one day anyway, and it might be from something a lot slower and more painful than bullets. So death is inescapable. Living disgracefully under someone else's boot and at their mercy, however, IS escapable.

OTOH, as soon as I heard about agents going around confiscating guns, I wouldn't wait around for them to come for me and get me out of my house with tear gas (although I do have an excellent gas mask) or burn my house down. I'd leave my house and go do a little "hunting." Long-range "shoot and scoot" is the way to go if you're outnumbered.

l Would you bury your best guns for later, once enough people decided to overthrow the ultra-liberal government?
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It doesn't hurt to have a gun or two cached somewhere along with supplies, but I wouldn't be caught without at least one rifle one in my hands. Burying all of one's guns to avoid confiscation is no different from allowing them to be confiscated, IMO. Keep at least one or you might get dragged off to a hellish prison (i.e., rape room) or have the location of your buried guns beaten out of you.

As for a definite plan, there really doesn't need to be one, IMO. If enough gun owners go around acting as lone wolves and picking off those who are obviously acting as confiscators, the confiscation wouldn't last long. The thugs would be risking their lives for nothing more than their paychecks. We would be risking our lives for our freedom.
 
Nothing is impossible, but it's highly unlikely that a sudden "confiscate all guns" scenario could develop in the forseeable future in the USA. It will more likely be an extension of what we've been seeing for the last 40 years or so... a gradual erosion of our second amendment rights.
Once it's too late, it's too late. The best thing to do? Educate the public with every chance you get. Get politically active NOW, and intelligently fight for our rights within the system that we already have. It's a pretty good system if we just use it.
Marty
 
For some perspective, we all need to remember that there's a long way 'tween here and there.

As for there, this is what there looks like:

Part I: Madga is dragged off to a concentration camp.

{For those of you who don't know, Madga is Peter's mother. Peter is a young man from Hungary who I took under wing when he was 15, shortly after his father died. He's 23 now, and a surrogate son to me.}

http://geekwitha45.blogspot.com/2006_09_01_geekwitha45_archive.html#115708657563474416

Part II: In Grendel's Lair

http://geekwitha45.blogspot.com/2006_09_01_geekwitha45_archive.html#115726283640236335


...Taking a deep breath, I let the sun soak into me for a minute, to wash away the grime, and to pack the experience away for later. Peter's wedding would be in a few hours, and today was to be a day of great joy. But first, I muttered a Rifleman's prayer:

-------------
Oh Lord, I would live my life in freedom, peace and happiness, enjoying the simple pleasures of hearth and home. I would die an old, old man in my own bed, preferably of sexual overexertion.

But if that is not to be, Lord, if monsters such as this should find their way to my little corner of the world on my watch, then help me to sweep those bastards from the ramparts, because doing that is good, and right, and just.

And if in this I should fall, let me be found atop a pile of brass, behind the wall I made of their corpses.
-------------
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bogie,
i did vote. it didn't get me far in NYC. see my point? just because a majority things 2nd A is wrong, doesn't mean if should be removed. that's why I'm in FL rather than in NY. it was hard, but in the name of my believes, i packed my s**t and left.

AP
 
You're right, AP: Our rights do not depend on what the majority believes, and we should never accept a tyranny of the majority.

While working within the system is something we need to keep doing as long as we can, let's not forget that the Powers That Be can manipulate or change the system any time they choose. If we start to make too much progress, then that's probably what they'll do -- shift the goalposts. Or maybe they'll just get a Supreme Court ruling that negates the Second Amendment.

Our options within the system are not yet exhausted, but armedpolak is right to be thinking about the "last resort."

Like it or not, folks, Commie Mao was right: All political power flows from the barrel of a gun. Those in power can and will do anything they want to unless there are negative consequences for them.
 
If the .Gov's handling of the borders is any indication of the future, then we are already on the road. Escalation is a powerful thing. Small forces acting over long periods of time will have an effect. Look at the Grand Canyon. Water created a humongous ditch. It only took time. Semi-Automatics will be banned, it is only a matter of time.
 
geekWithA.45 said:
For some perspective, we all need to remember that there's a long way 'tween here and there.
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Unfortunately, it might not be as far as it seems.

We're certainly not at the point where people are being dragged off to concentration camps yet. But as you know, we've already seen a taste of gun confiscation (New Orleans, post-Katrina). And several states have already nullified the Second Amendment (e.g., CA).

If the government were to be successful at disarming the US population, it might still be a long while before we'd get concentration camps. But immediately after the disarmament, the population would be effectively helpless forever. There's no turning back once disarmament has taken place -- the Rubicon has been crossed at that point.

This is why I strongly feel that a ban on combat-worthy semi-autos simply cannot be tolerated under any circumstances. Once they're gone, we'll never get them back by any means, legal or otherwise.

Edit: Looks like Furious Styles kind of beat me to it...
 
Isn't this the kind of thing better discussed in one's basement rather than an online forum where any ole fed can get a heads up?
 
Isn't this the kind of thing better discussed in one's basement rather than an online forum where any ole fed can get a heads up?
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None of this discussion is illegal, since we are speaking in hypothetical "what if..." terms.
 
Isn't this the kind of thing better discussed in one's basement rather than an online forum where any ole fed can get a heads up?
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As long as the 2A is protecting our rights I believe this is an appropriate venue. They should know that we are dissatisfied with the oppression, graft and flagrant abuse of our Rights. There is a storm brewing that will engulf us all.
 
If you're always preparing for the rainiest day, even a cloudy day seems okay....or, if you plan for the worst & hope for the best eveything in between is okay ;)
 
I think it's already happening, just slowly. The liberals are smart and are using social engineering. Kids are being taught in school that guns are evil, that hunting is evil etc.
 
Here is how I see it. There are many types of Gun Owners some are just hunters, others just target shooters. Others are survialists. Most of us are some combination of all of these. There will be some gun owners who say ok to the .gov men on their doorstep, there will be others that pull the David Coresh style WACO stuff. Most of us will fall in between, frankly thats how it is. As for me I have my ideas but certainly no big plans.

Also I think a tougher question to answer for SHTF senario is who do you allow into your house for example if you prepare enough supplies for your family but then allow other neighbors into your place that is a drain on resources.
 
This is my first post and even though I am only 15 and from NZ if it came to it I would certainly fight for my right to own a firearm as would my father, my brother, and even my mother.

even though im not old enough to own one yet :(
 
This is always a good topic to get people in with chest thumping "MOLON LABE!!!" posts and "i'd kill 'em good." The reality though is you're being disarmed as you say how you'll refuse to be disarmed. Go buy a new machine gun. Buy a suppressor in any state, or without a $200 tax, or without fingerprints and heavy restrictions. Buy some 30 round mags in cali or a few other states. Try to keep a handgun in your home in the nation's captial. Its all incremental. Pass state and local bans on new purchases. Grandfathering in of old weapons will pacify most gun owners. Its a battle of attrition. Time and very gradual erosion are your enemy, you'll likely never see the gun confiscation truck you dream of in your front yard.
 
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