The NRA is Pro BATF?

Not in the least. The NRA has to choose it's battles wisely. It can't fight the whole world. That's stupid.

A man's got to know his limitations.

Its best to be at least on neutral terms with the regulatory organization you hope to lobby to recieve favorable rulings.

Do you think the various pilots unions are openly hostile to the FAA?

Kharn

The NRA referred to the ATF as "jack-booted thugs" in a fundraising letter about 12 years ago. That was why George Bush Sr resigned his life membership.

"I don't know about the rest of you, but i found this somewhat surprising. Does this affect anyone elses opinion of the NRA?"

No, why would it? The NRA deals with reality and somebody is going to be enforcing the gun laws at the federal level. Anyone who thinks all of the gun laws are going to magically disappear (along with the speed limits, Congress and the IRS, etc.) is dreaming.

John

I think it politically smart to be neutral to the ATF while decrying the ACTIONS of the Agency. This is what the NRA is probably doing.

If they were openly hostile to the agency, I'd resign from the NRA. I need an effective lobbying organization, not a cabal of chest-thumping morons.

They need someone to enforce all the gun control they support.

Thank goodness the NRA is living in the real world and not in a fantasy like some people are.

John

The NRA referred to the ATF as "jack-booted thugs" in a fundraising letter about 12 years ago. That was why George Bush Sr resigned his life membership.

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And then backed down and apologized. That's why my dad resigned his membership.

Actually it's a very good letter. It provides a full rationale for NRA's actions.

not a cabal of chest-thumping morons.

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There's a lot of that going around.

The NRA is like a cancer treatment center.

If someone developed the CURE they'd fight it.

There's no money in CURING anything...as Chris Rock says: "It's all about 'The Comeback!' "

Come back for more treatments. Come back to give us more money.

It's a business, a professional lobbying business.

They sell the illusion of protecting Rights while they'd never allow a final, unequivocal GUARANTEE of those Rights to exist.

Without the Conflict, there is no Cash....

D.

So is your dad a government loyalist like daddy bush (as opposed to being loyal to liberty and the constitution?)

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I'm pretty sure he meant that Dad resigned his membership over the NRA apologizing for calling the BATF jack booted thugs. I was pretty mad about that craven apology myself.

The NRA is like a cancer treatment center.

If someone developed the CURE they'd fight it.
__________

You probably believe General Motors really has a engine that will run on water and won't let it out of the vault.

Of course, nobody has invented a cure and nobody has offered to repeal all of the gun laws, so your theory is all conjecture.

John

If they were openly hostile to the agency, I'd resign from the NRA. I need an effective lobbying organization, not a cabal of chest-thumping morons.

Click to expand...

Artfully done, Joe.

JohnBT said,

Of course, nobody has invented a cure and nobody has offered to repeal all of the gun laws, so your theory is all conjecture.

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It is not something to be offered. It is something to be demanded.
Bad laws are something to be fought at all levels.
"shall not be infringed" is not a suggestion. It is THE Law.
There need to be more demands to lawmakers, not just waiting for an offer.

Uh, the water powered engine has existed for some time. There are old patents. Now we call it Hydrogen-powered... I know because I've worked on them.

"Of course, nobody has invented a cure and nobody has offered to repeal all of the gun laws, so your theory is all conjecture." - me

"It is not something to be offered. It is something to be demanded." - you


I stand by my statement. You've taken part of what I said and used it out of context. If no one offers to do away with the gun laws, then the NRA can't fight it. That was the proffered statement, that the NRA would fight it. Nice try at spin, but no go.

_______________

"Uh, the water powered engine has existed for some time. There are old patents. Now we call it Hydrogen-powered.."

Uh, it was a reference to the urban legend that's been kicking around since the '30s or '40s. Surely you've heard of it. There's even a Wikipedia entry, along with a thousand and some others if you Google it. Not a hydrogen engine, a water engine.

John



"A water-fuelled car is a hypothetical motor car that uses ordinary water as its fuel.

This is not the same concept as a steam engine. A steam engine uses water to transmit energy from the fire or other heat source to the pistons that do the work of turning the engine.

This is not the same concept as a hydrogen car, though it often incorporates some of the same elements. To fuel a hydrogen car from water, energy from a power plant is used to generate hydrogen from electrolysis, which is then either burned in the car's engine or merged with oxygen to create water via a semipermeable membrane. Both methods produce energy which is output to create motion. The car ultimately receives its energy from the power plant, with the hydrogen acting as an energy carrier.

The water-fuelled car, on the other hand, would have to create or extract energy from the water itself with no other energy input.

Water fuelled cars have been mentioned in urban legends since the 1930s. The story is usually that a lone inventor invents an engine that runs on water but the idea is suppressed by either Big Oil or automakers in order to safeguard their profits. Claims for water fuelled power sources are often used to fraudulently extract money from gullible investors."

I tried to address this with another thread,and failed. Then the thread degenerated.
All the bashing of the NRA by those that disagree does not help us, All the bashing of the GOA or JPFO by others does not help,
The NRA does a lot of good as far as education, training,awareness and lobbying. The have also compromised the 2nd amendment by endorsing bad laws. The GOA is too inflexible for some. I think we need both.
The 2nd amendment is what it is. We need to reach out, and work together.
More than that, we need to vote. The NRA does not have any power in Washington. WE DO. Their influence comes from the people who they represent.
We need to demand change from those that work for us.

"The NRA does not have any power in Washington."

From a Washington Post article:

"According to a new poll, it's the National Rifle Association. A National Journal survey of more than 70 members of Congress suggests that the NRA is the "most effective" interest group on Capitol Hill. The organization received nearly twice as many votes -- 25 -- as AARP and the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, which tied for second place. Each received 13 votes.

The U.S. Chamber of Commerce and the National Federation of Independent Business rounded out the lawmakers' top five. There were some differences between how lawmakers from the two parties responded to the poll. Republicans named the NFIB as the most effective group, followed by the NRA and the Chamber of Commerce. Democrats picked the NRA, followed by AARP and AIPAC."

The NRA is a big boogeyman for the Left, whom they can use the mythical EEEVIL NRA whenever they lose.

But the NRA has become, a wholly owned subsidiary of the neo-con wishy-washy "right" and GWB's Illegal-alien coddling administration.

The NRA has been "fighting" for years, but only an idiot would deny that the NRA was responsible for the acceptance of....

The NFA '34
The GCA '68
Brady
Project Exile
Lautenberg
The obscenely ridiculous VAWA, with it's outrageous weapons prohibition if you have an open Order of Protecton (a civil matter which requires NO proof and NO corroboration)

Now, if the NRA were not a professional lobbying arm, told what to do by it's GOP masters, and routinely ignoring it's membership base, then tell me WHY did NRA try to scuttle Parker?

Why did the NRA support Ron Paul's Democrat opponent in last year's election? Hmmm?

I'll tell you why, because Ron Paul is against the Iraq War (I do not agree) and he is vehementy anti-Tonk, anti-Amnesty, anti-give-the-country-away-to-3rd-world-Immigrunts....

When you stray off the GOP reservation with regards to the Brown Horde, you are cut loose. Tancredo, Paul and (until he was defeated by a HACK 3rd rate toad of a Demokommie) JD Hayworth were "persona non grata" because they still believe in the soveriegnty of America and the security of it's borders.

JD was cut loose by the RNC, ignored by the NRA. He lost.

Tancredo held on, because he is wildly popular.

But, back to the point, the NRA endorsed the demokommie, because Rove (POS that he is) told them to.

Here endeth the lesson in vile Politics.

D.

Let's remember that the 'jack-booted thugs' line was a quote. From a Democrat Rep, in a speech he gave on the floor of the House.

He said it, and the media ignored it. The NRA quoted it, and everyone acted like they'd walked into the church and peed on the altar.

Got problems with the NRA, but the noise over that was BS.

"But the NRA has become, a wholly owned subsidiary of the neo-con wishy-washy "right" and GWB's Illegal-alien coddling administration."

Good job, dodging the assertions I presented in the earlier post.

The Chinese have been oustanding at appropriating a group who started out as "the opposition", absorbing it and making it the "government approved opposition"...

Just keep sending the money. Very expensive restaurants in DC and Legistraitors for sale rely on it.

D.