Texas law re: LEO requesting my ssn

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A few years ago when I was stopped for speeding, the young LEO asked me to write my ssn on the ticket. This annoyed me, but I complied after thoughtfully considering the hassle factor of refusing. (yeah, I weenied out, I'm trying to mend my ways now).

I'm looking for clarification about any Texas law regarding such requests, and how to respectfully yet firmly communicate my intention to not provide such information in the future.

Thank you,

Rico
 
Social Security Number Please

You should not being carrying around or handing out your Social Security Number. Put it in you safe or Safety Deposit Box. If asked for the your Social Security Number just state you do not carry it on you and you do not know what it is. No issues about "no you cant have it". Just, I do not know what it is.

Having said that, if you are accepting a new job you will need to supply your new employer a copy of your SSN.
 
Social Security Number Please

You should not be carrying around or handing out your Social Security Number. Put it in you safe or Safety Deposit Box. If asked for the your Social Security Number just state you do not carry it on you and you do not know what it is. No issues about "no you cant have it". Just, I do not know what it is.

Having said that, if you are accepting a new job you will need to supply your new employer a copy of your SSN.
 
Thanks, but that doesn't really help.

Thanks, but I already do no carry my ssn card or number written down with me. This was an LEO asking for it during a traffic stop.

I'm looking for a definate clarification that Texas Law either forbids LEO from requesting my ssn, or at least does not require me to provide it so I can speak from knowledge and not from ignorance when refusing to provide it.

I have not problem lying to an LEO and stating I don't carry it and "don't recall" what it is, but I'd rather be able to tell them for sure that the law does not permit them to ask for it, or that I am not required to provide it.

Rico
 
Is there actually a field on the ticket for a SS#? If not then you have no reason to even supply it as it doesn't belong on the form.

If there is a field then it needs to be changed as the SS# is not legal identification (contrary to many popular misconceptions) except for tax purposes. I'm not even sure it's technically legal for credit purposes, but that's a whole other issue.
 
It is now your de facto national ID number, keep it handy, one day you will need it to get your FEMA food ration coupons.

But back to the thread at hand. If it is not a field in the ticket, then it is a no-go.
 
Law requires you to carry a driver's license and proof of insurance. Never heard of a law that requires you to carry SSN card, present it on demand, or tell an LEO what your SSN is.

Even completing the SSN field on Form 4473 is optional. (I never have.)
 
Every time I buy a firearm im forced to include my "optional" SSN... becuse my name is so hilariously common that thousands of people have it. There is at least one gentleman in the NFL with the same name as me, for example.

On the one hand, its very hard to find me and virtually impossible to Google me. On the other, im forced to use my SSN frequently to identify myself.
 
I might ask him why he needs it. If he's checking for outstanding warrants, I might give it up. I too have a common name and he might decide to arrest me if anyone with my name has a warrant out. I was once served with a summons for a traffic accident lawsuit against someone with the same name as me.

Otherwise, I'd politely refuse. They have my name, address, and driver's license number. That is plenty to identify me.
 
Originally, they were not supposed to be for ID. I have not found any law that says so. I did find this.
http://www.cpsr.org/prevsite/cpsr/privacy/ssn/ssn.faq.html
The Privacy Act of 1974

The Privacy Act of 1974 (Pub. L. 93-579, in section 7), which is the primary law affecting the use of SSNs, requires that any federal agency that requests your Social Security Number has to tell you four things:

1. the authority (whether granted by statute, or by executive order of the President) which authorizes the solicitation of the information and whether disclosure of such information is mandatory or voluntary;
2. the principal purposes for which the information is intended to be used;
3. the routine uses which may be made of the information, as published annually in the Federal Register, and
4. the effects on you, if any, of not providing all or any part of the requested information.

The Act requires state and local agencies which request the SSN to inform the individual of only three things:

1. whether the disclosure is mandatory or voluntary,
2. by what statutory or other authority the SSN is solicited, and
3. what uses will be made of the number.

In addition, that section makes it illegal for Federal, state, and local government agencies to deny any rights, privileges or benefits to individuals who refuse to provide their SSNs unless the disclosure is required by Federal statute, or the disclosure is to an agency for use in a record system which required the SSN before 1975. ( 5 USC 552a note). So anytime you're dealing with a government institution and you're asked for your Social Security Number, look for a Privacy Act Statement. If there isn't one, complain and don't give your number. If the statement is present, read it. Once you've read the explanation of whether the number is optional or required, and what will be done with your number if you provide it, you'll be able to decide for yourself whether to fill in the number.

There are several kinds of governmental organizations (see the list in the Short History section) that usually have authority to request your number, but they are all required to provide the Privacy Act Statement described above. The only time you should be willing to give your number without reading that notice is when the organization you are dealing with is not a part of the government.

One weakness of the Priavcy Act is that it doesn't carry any penalties. ( Bob Gelman claims there are some that haven't been exercised in court.)
I hope this helps.
 
ny now requires your ssn to get or renew your drivers license. Of course, I am sure they can say they are not really forcing you to give it or denying you anything--after all, you could just refuse and not drive anymore if it's really important to you not to give that information out, and driving is a privilege, not a right, as far as they are concerned...
 
I have been stopped several times here and have never been asked for my SSN. Might be a local thing or as someone mention, trying to run your id for warrants and got multiple people with the same name. I guess they already have my SSN in their database.
 
SSN's are the reason Identity Theft is possible.

And our government passed the bank laws that make it so easy.
 
When an LEO asks you for your SSN on a traffic stop, it is usually requested by the court so if you don't pay your ticket, instead of them issuing a warrant for your arrest they can send it to a collection agency and get the money that way.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr
 
As stated previously the SSN is a de-facto national identity number with the driving licence as your actual identity card.

Post 9/11 with the apparent need to more rigorously identify that you is who you say you is, the actual identity card (your driving licence) has had to be linked to your government identity.

As such in most if not all states, when you get your new driving licence you have to supply the SSN, don't do it and no driving licence.

Not infrequently the serial number on the card is a one way hashed algorithm of the SSN, date of birth etc for card validation. Punch the serial number into an online verification system and it compares it against a matching hash to make sure it's not a fake ID.

As for providing an SSN on demand to the LEO, the answer is thank you no thank you, please feel free to run the driving licence and this will be able to provide all the information you require.

You could also try the one I use quite sucessfully, (being a Brit).

"I'm terribly sorry constable, I'm English we don't DO national identity cards and I most certainly do not carry my SSN card/passport/Green Card/birth certificate."

The accent and "more in sorrow than in anger" stance is suprisingly effective...:cool:
 
Don't forget that Clinton signed the Deadbeat Dad act which allows them to request your SSN. If you don't give over that number at the time of your DL reregistration, you won't be issued a DL. At least in Tx
 
Hey Mech,

It should be criminal, considering it is for a criminal offense. To this day I don't really understand why a jurisdiction would not just issue a warrant.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr
 
Every time I buy a firearm im forced to include my "optional" SSN... becuse my name is so hilariously common that thousands of people have it. There is at least one gentleman in the NFL with the same name as me, for example.

I've never provided by SSN on a 4473 and have never been delayed/denied so far. There is (or was?) even a US congressman from one state with the same first and last name as me. :)
 
there is no Texas law that requires you give LE your SSN. Failure To Identify only applies if you refuse to give your name, address, or date of birth.

that being said, there is a place on the citation to list an SSN. usually this is in the event the violator fails to appear, they issue a warrant and use that SSN to list on the warrant for identification purposes should they stop this violator later and attempt to confirm a warrant.

http://www.bakers-legal-pages.com/fastlaws/pc2004/00000238.htm

Sec. 38.02. Failure to Identify.
(a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally refuses to give his name, residence address, or date of birth to a peace officer who has lawfully arrested the person and requested the information.
(b) A person commits an offense if he intentionally gives a false or fictitious name, residence address, or date of birth to a peace officer who has:
(1) lawfully arrested the person;
(2) lawfully detained the person; or
(3) requested the information from a person that the peace officer has good cause to believe is a witness to a criminal offense.
(c) Except as provided by Subsections (d) and (e), an offense under this section is:
(1) a Class C misdemeanor if the offense is committed under Subsection (a); or
(2) a Class B misdemeanor if the offense is committed under Subsection (b).
(d) If it is shown on the trial of an offense under this section that the defendant was a fugitive from justice at the time of the offense, the offense is:
(1) a Class B misdemeanor if the offense is committed under Subsection (a); or
(2) a Class A misdemeanor if the offense is committed under Subsection (b).
(e) If conduct that constitutes an offense under this section also constitutes an offense under Section 106.07, Alcoholic Beverage Code, the actor may be prosecuted only under Section 106.07.
 
Keep in mind that in most states, failing to sign the ticket or provide all the information on the ticket can result in you being arrested instead. Then you can tell the judge a few days later, at your first hearing, that you were right all along. I suggest you pick your battles carefully,

I suspect that the SSN was actually used to run a records check to make sure you had no warrants. Cops get in big trouble if they right a speeding ticket then let a guy go when he also has a rape or murder warrant outstanding.
 
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i believe all traffic tickets become public record in texas. that's how those low-feeding attorneys send you junkmail about getting your ticket dismissed. so i think you can politely refuse to disclose your ssn on the grounds that it might make you more vulnerable to id theft. plus there is no law that requires you to anyway, as people have said above.
 
I suspect that the SSN was actually used to run a records check to make sure you had no warrants. Cops get in big trouble if they right a speeding ticket then let a guy go when he also has a rape or murder warrant outstanding.

This might be true but they can run your name and other required info without the SSN and if it comes back with a possible warrant then they could ask you for a SSN to see if you matched the warrant(s). No need for the officer to get into trouble or to ask for the information until it looked like your name might be in the system.
 
Welcome to THR, Rico :)

Not to be a wet blanket, but if you want an answer you can have confidence in, I'd call a lawyer. Opinions are like navels, everybody has one, but you don't actually want to stake your liberty on what you read here.

Alternatively, you could call your local PD or the DPS and ask.

Let us know what you find out.

Springmom
 
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