CCW = Bad Idea ...

THAT's 157 OUT OF OVER 1,200,000!

What's the average for the general population???

I know a man who is a CCW holder, he doesn't carry very often, and goes to the range even less. I asked my CCW instructor about that, and he told me that a person will only engage themselves as far as their training will allow them to do, so I don't have to worry about that man overstepping his bounds.

I believe your friend may be in the same type of situation, while he is comfortable defending his home, he wouldn't be comfortable carrying away from home, probably for the very reason he said - a "simple argument between two men on the street result in a gunfight". I am not a psychologist, but I've seen a couple of them in my time, and unless I'm mistaken this just might be a case of "psychological projection", in which case, perhaps HIS having a CCW would be a bad idea.

A friend of mine and I have had a discussion about those who do carry (concealed or otherwise, as state laws differ). We have come to the conclusion that there is a good portion of people who carry who just don't have what it takes to potentially take someone's life, at least from what we've observed of our local contingent. Carrying a weapon of any sort means that one MUST have the mindset to take another's life when push comes to shove. That one moment of indecision or hesitation could cost the one who carries a weapon their own life. Both my friend and I are of the mindset that IF we ever are forced into a situation that we have to pull our weapons either one of us would take a life if that's the only resolution. That said, another moment of being too aggressive in any given situation could cost someone their life and a tons of hassle. It's a fine line and I don't feel that carrying is for everybody.

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I think this is a very good point.

I had to work through my own issues about carrying and it took me a few years to do so. My biggest concern was that I knew if I carried, I might be in a situation where I could end someone's life. I know I am capable of making that choice, and for a long time had trouble accepting that about myself.

Having a real life Bad Guy and getting frightened helped me over come it. But for someone who does not see danger in their immediate surroundings, this could take longer.

I personally wouldn't try to change the person's mind as it could damage the friendship. But I would hope that they would respect your choice to get a ccw.

Just keep target shooting with your friend and let this matter settle within himself.

I also loathe the argument that somehow the gun imbues the user with a malevolent power. I casually mentioned to my boss the other day that I shot guns and somehow the conversation went from polite to, "gee, I hope you never shoot me." I actually told him that I took offense to that. I would never harm anybody. I've never so much as got into a fist-fight in my life and somehow I go from nice office temp to someone contemplating murder. I even went on to mention how I had a gay friend whose mother worried that he'd be the victim of a hate-crime, and that I'd purchased him a revolver and taught him to shoot "just in case". Both he and his mother worry less. Now, I thought that this might make a good impression on my boss (who is gay), but he just retorted, "I don't like guns". Well, I don't like the physical act of running, but sometimes I have to make use of it. I have NEVER, in any of the states I've lived in (NY, NM, and TX) felt threatened by the presence of CCW. Of course there's potential for misuse, but that's not the fault of the tool (gun), that's the fault of the user. My boss cited some gang killing and how easy it was to pull the trigger. I said that that wasn't the case at all. A gun won't facilitate the mental shift in your head that requires you to MURDER someone.

Think about it, just for a moment. Can you picture yourself committing an act of MURDER... the answer should be a definitive, "NO". That doesn't change when I have a gun, kitchen knife, baseball bat, or spork in my hand.

I think this is a stereotype that needs to be changed. I mean, the guy basically slandered me in his own ignorance. It's the equivalent of me saying to him, "well, you're in a position of power, I hope you don't rape me one day at work". A ludicrous statement.

Its real easy to say those kinds of things when you've never been in a situation to warrant having a firearm by your side. The world is a great place to live as long as the barbaric things we constantly hear about never happen to us. It's unfortunate, but until we come face to face with a threat to our life or something close to it, we can't appreciate the idea of self-preservation being a necessity.

Hopefully your friend will just stay with his narrow-minded ideas and never have to come face to face with something sinister in the night.

don't try to change his mind. and, ask him not to try to change yours.

48 states allow concealed carry and have anywhere from a year to decades. If it is a problem with fights on the streets turning to gun battles he should be able to show you some documentation of all these events. He's using his imagination to predict what might happen when the data is already out there.

It always irks me when the "argument will turn into a gunfight" deal comes up when talking about concealed carry. I understand that we all have differing views when it comes to guns but where does this particular argument stem from? Gunsmoke? Wild West movies? I honestly don't get it.

I've seen some serious arguments break out between hunters over who has a right to the deer when several people shot at it in a WMA, but I don't automatically think a gunfight will break out. And everyone involved usually has a loaded gun in their hands or slung over their back.

Maybe I'm just naive but the thought that concealed weapons will somehow turn an argument, or even a fistfight, into a gunfight just baffles me.

"I casually mentioned to my boss the other day that I shot guns and somehow the conversation went from polite to, "gee, I hope you never shoot me." I actually told him that I took offense to that. I would never harm anybody. I've never so much as got into a fist-fight in my life and somehow I go from nice office temp to someone contemplating murder."

Prince,

I hope you weren't trying to get a permanent job there...

There's the old saw that if one wants or needs to get along with people, to never discuss politics and religion. Maybe gun ownership should be added to that.

Many of you have suggested that my friend's perspective may be the result of his own "anger management issues". I hadn't taken that into consideration. I've decided that it's probably best that I don't try to encourage him to apply for a CCW permit...

Sounds to me like a valid conclusion on your part.

lpl/nc

Sometimes those we think are our friends turn out to be our worst enemies as they are the ones quickest to sell us out.

Your friend might have had a bad experience with handguns, or maybe needs someone / thing to feel superior to, hence his snap judgement about CCWs. Could be Ginger vs Mary Anne, Fords vs Chevys, politics, religion; whatever. He's looking for an ally. Be one: ask him about his latest hunting story, then congratulate him on a a great shot. You could beat each other over the head with statistics and arguments until you're both sore and angry, but I think that it would be better to let him save face and maybe even win the day. If you threaten his expert viewpoint, he'll be all that much harder to talk with, so sidetrack the issue until its his turn to extend an olive branch or return a favor. Until then, remember that concealed means "out of site, out of mind" for most folks, and leave it at that.

I hope you weren't trying to get a permanent job there...

There's the old saw that if one wants or needs to get along with people, to never discuss politics and religion. Maybe gun ownership should be added to that.

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I'm only working there temporarily; I'm done in 1.5 weeks. There's also the old adage: "I shouldn't get shot dead at work/school by a lunatic because a stupid state law prevented me from carrying a concealed handgun". I'm not doing anything wrong and the right to defend oneself shouldn't even have to be debated. There's also no crime in offering to teach others to defend themselves. For what it's worth, I haven't brought it up since.

Okay... Sorry in advance for the long-windedness here, but I had to throw my personal opinion out there and see how it compared to the many older, wiser, and more mature posters out there.

Let me just get this out there. I'm a twiggy, long-haired, 20 year old artist who never even considered the military, law-enforcement, or anything else that would require a haircut. I shoot more with a camera than anything else.

I'm supposed to be liberal, if my hobbies and appearance have anything to do with it. But advocating an unarmed populace?

I don't know what this cat's thinking, but guns are the ultimate rape repellant. Now, if a man challenges me to a fistfight, I'll pass my pistol to my buddy under the table and get beat to a pulp. Fine. No one's getting killed there. But if he comes at me with a knife or better? Well, I hope he has good insurance!

I can't see how anyone in their right mind could oppose carry. Not only does it enable a guy like me to defend himself against a chainsaw-weilding Master Blaster clone, but it means an available LAST RESORT option when those fine men with the uniforms aren't around to swoop in and save the day.

A person who carries a handgun, in my opinion, does not come off as some reckless gunslinger wannabe with a chip on his shoulder. The armed citizen is responsible, not only for his own conduct, but for the safety of those around him. Who keeps the antis safe? Enough said.

and strongly supports the concept of home defence(sic).

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I'm only assuming that by 'home defense' that he has weapons in the house that are readily available in time of need. Let him know that most violence occurs in the home... by those that live in the house.
What with the millions of people who carry, there are very few incidences where a legally, licensed gun carrier uses the weapon in an illegal way.

Your friend is right.
When I was younger, I would have never gotten a CCW. I wasn't so much about defense as I was about offense...in other words I picked a lot of fights and started a lot of trouble.

If you're the kind of person who gets into fist fights in an alley, then you should not get a CCW, you should get your temper under control.

The funniest thing about CCW, nobody (and I mean nobody) should know you have a CCW. For some reason I run into so many losers who think a CCW is a badge of some sort and is something to be proud of... and as soon as they find out that you have a license they start talking about theirs. I had a fella at the range ask me about CCW the other day, and I could tell just by the way he was acting that it was best to just tell him "No".

I have a CCH license and rarely use it. Too much hassle. The odds of needing it don't outweigh the trouble involved. I look at CCW's as a deterrent, to make a bad guy think "maybe he's got a gun, there are 300,000 people in this state with CCW permits."

I'm also 6', 250 lbs.... if I were smaller I might see it differently to equalize a mugging situation.

One of the things I've discovered about carrying a gun is a sensation I call Gun Zen.

I've noticed that since I've started carrying I'm more at peace with the world.

I don't get as angry at other idiots on the road.
I don't get as angry at idiots that get in my way at the grocery store, or cut in line, or are generally inconsiderate schmucks.
I have found that when armed, I'm more relaxed and much more laid back.

I contribute it to the realization that if I blow my top, if I escelate a situation to shouting or shoving, if I don't remain in control; someone could die.

Once you come to that realization, you really start to apply the old AA slogan "How Important Is It" to every daily situation ... and you find that most things aren't all that important ... most things aren't worth getting all riled up over.


Gun Zen ... its a factor the "...oh nos! arguments will turn into gunfights..." people just don't (and can't) understand.

One of the things I've discovered about carrying a gun is a sensation I call Gun Zen.

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I get that feeling too!

He declined stating that they "shouldn't allow anyone to carry a gun" as he wouldn't want to see a "simple argument between two men on the street result in a gunfight". I was somewhat shocked by his rationale and I am looking for suggestions on how I might change his perspective on the issue. Any ideas ???

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Personally I am always terribly annoyed with that argument. The statistics in states with a large populous that carries simply prove that his assertion that CCW causes rationale people to become involved in armed confrontations is patently false.

I am not always diplomatic with my friends, but the last time a friend of mine ask me the same question I replied: Are you so mentally unstable that if you were armed you would shoot someone during and argument? No...Then what makes you assume I or any other individual who chooses to carry a gun is?

However I am certainly not surprised. A poster on TFL expressed anxiety about being in a parking lot where there was gang activity at night. Some of the responses included:

Millions and millions of people do the same thing every day and never have a thing happen to them, nor were they in any danger.

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What makes me more nervous (or sad) is the depth of paranoia exhibited in this and in other threads.

Me and SWMBO went out last night at 2am, unarmed, and we both lived.

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Wildalaska i would agree totaly!!! there are alot of super paranoid people here. They can be easily spotted as they wear a tinfoil hat so the Govt. mind control waves cant work on them.

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OH MY GOD! You mean to tell me that in this day and age you can go to the store at night and not get mugged? You were truly lucky to have left there with your life.
I do think that you should always try and be prepared but if you forget your firearm from time to time, the chances are still highly in your favor that you will still make it home alive. So you forgot your weapon? Big deal.

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Wild is right on!! The paranoid commando with a carry permit scares me more than the bad guys. The whole condition white, yellow, red or purple is pure nonsense! Some of you are making a great case for more stringent gun laws because it demonstrates the extreme fringe of gun owners.

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http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=257551

These are supposed to be pro gun people????

Att: autolite my friend-

Apparently, your bud as been sleeping far too long; or simply not paying
any attention to the happenings 'round him~? Its time for him to realize
that all of GOD's children don't necessarily play by his rules~! The 'burbs
of big metropolitian cities are dangerous places to raise a family; as you
have more unlicensed (or illegal's) carrying shoot'in irons, than you do
folks that have CCW's~!

Myself, I refuse to be a victim; therefore I tote legally everyday~

One of the things I've discovered about carrying a gun is a sensation I call Gun Zen.

I've noticed that since I've started carrying I'm more at peace with the world.

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Couldn't agree more. I let so many things roll off my back now that used to lead to shouting, cussing and one finger salutes.

I also noticed that I became much more aware of my surroundings.