Questions about 1911 Trigger Jobs

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The Wiry Irishman

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A little background on my situation before I move on to my question:

I'm going to be getting my first soon. I'm very big into competitive pistol shooting, up to this point just regular bullseye shooting at my university's gun club, but I'd like to start getting into IDPA-style shooting, as well. We're only allowed to fire .22s at the range on campus, and all the bull competitions with other colleges are .22, as well. I'd also like for concealed carry and home defense. Since I'm a college student I don't have the money to get a separate gun for each job, so I figure why not kill all three birds with one stone? I'm looking at getting a Kimber Custom II Target, then equipping it a Marvel .22 kit.

That brings me to my question:

Currently for bull shooting I use one of the clubs Model 41s with a trigger weight of 2.5 pounds. I often find myself wishing it was just a tad lighter, but as long as I keep up with my practice it doesn't affect my scores too badly. Since the Custom II comes with a 4-5 pound trigger, I'd like to get a trigger job to lighten it up a bit. First off, about how much should I expect to pay for this, parts and labor?

Second, just how light can I make the trigger? Friends that have had trigger jobs on their 1911s have all seem to be getting it down to three pounds. I don't know much about how its done, could I get it down to 2?

Third, how light should I make it? By using one gun for purposes as completely different as bull shooting and concealed carry, I think I'll have to compromise between what would be ideal for competition and what would be safe for carry. While it would be great to have a semi-auto with the same 8 ounce trigger as the club's Drulov free pistols (which I love) it might not be particularly safe for carrying around and shooting with .45 instead of .22. I've fired a .45 1911 with about a 2.5 pound trigger (I never got to measure it, but that's what it felt like) and I was pretty comfortable with it. It was only the second pistol I'd ever shot, so I had a few accidental double taps the first few times I fired it, but I've had four years of experience with the 2.5 pound 41 since. The compromise I've got in my mind now is 2 to 2.5 pounds, but that's not a terribly informed opinion, and I'd like to here what more experienced shooters have to say. Thanks.
 
It's been many years since I shot 2700 pt NRA Bullseye but I think minimum legal trigger weights were: 2.5# for .22 cal and 3.5# for .45 cal. For .45 cal Hardball matches, I think the min weight was 4#. So you couldn't set your 1911 trigger below 3.5# to keep it legal in .45 cal matches. That weight would not be legal in Hardball matches however.

Good shooting and be safe.
LB
 
For carry guns, most people recommend 4-4.5# trigger pulls. I do NOT recommend going below that weight unless you have LOTS of experience with triggers in lighter weight range.

Good shooting and be safe.
LB
 
I'd be rather leery of lowering the trigger pull on a pistol that would be used for self-defense. I'm not a lawyer (ask El Tejon if you want a legal opinion, he's in Lafayette), but it does seem that a lowered trigger pull could set you up for a manslaughter (reckless and wanton disregard for human life) if you ever used it - that it was setup to go off easily.

I've got a 1911 (Taurus) that I use with a Advantage Arms conversion kit (I like the last-shot hold open). Honestly, unless you've got a good line on a used conversion, it will run you as much as a dedicated 22 of similar accuarcy. Mine is a 'practical' conversions, 'match' ones tend to cost more.

If you'd like to give mine a try, PM me and we can set something up. I should be at the Purdue Rifle and Pistol Club callout on Monday, but I won't be bringing mine along until I've gotten a clear answer from the club about how to bring it into the armory without getting into trouble.

Hope this helps,
Siderite
 
Although hunting and competitions can introduce an element of nervousness or stress, it is nothing like the stresses you will feel in a gunfight where the target shoots back. I know of virtually no trainers or writers that will recommend a pull of less than 4.5 lbs, with 4 as an absolute minimum. It is just too easy to fire an unintentional shot or one that is intentional but misses the target and hits an innocent bystander.
 
Current weights for Bullseye (NRA Conventional Pistol) are as follows:

.22 Pistol....at least two (2) pounds
CF Pistol...at least two and half pounds except if it is a .45 Pistol and then it has to be at least three and half pounds for either the CF match or .45 match. Trigger weight for .45 Revolvers is at least two and half pounds whether used in the CF or .45 match.

CMP rules:
EIC pistol, M9 or M1911, at least 4 pounds.

For a carry gun, I would think 4 pounds is about right.
 
If you install the Cylinder and Slide Tactical II hammer and sear you can have a 4.5# trigger and a 2.5# trigger both with full sear engagement just by changing the sear spring. I have installed five of these kits and they were consistent within better than 4oz.

For the light pull I used the new style Colt relieved leaf sear spring. Chip McCormick sear spring is virtually identical. Set the disconnecter leg to 1#.

For the heavier pull I used a Brown Hardcore std type spring with the disconnecter leg set to 1.5#, You can then set the trigger pull from 4# to 6# by adjusting the sear leg.

Because of the unique geometry of the C&S parts these configurations do not suffer hammer follow and should last for thousands of rounds.

One warning: don't stone anything!!!

One other point: It is generally taught that under stress most people lose their fine motor skills. The result is it is not likely that a person can feel less than 4-5# of force with their fingers. The same is true if it is cold. Remember "self defense" is only an affirmative defense if you fired intentionally. It is not a defense if the shooting was accidental. Light triggers raise the question of an accidental shooting.
 
I really appreciate the feedback. It looks like I could have set myself up for some serious problems had I not decided to ask. I'd consider myself a pretty dedicated shooter, but all my experience and consequently all my thoughts about shooting are in the context of putting holes in paper. Glad to get a less skewed perspective.

DBR - I really like the idea of being able to change my trigger weight to suit the application. In the context of someone who doesn't get into the mechanical aspect of guns much more than field stripping and cleaning them, how hard would your solution be for me to do? I have detail stripped a 1911 a couple times with the guidance of a more experienced friend, so I know that's not terribly difficult. And what's the price range?

Everyone - how much do gunsmiths typically charge for 1911 trigger job, or would it be feasible for me to do it myself and save the labor cost?
 
If you use the C&S parts I suggested there is no "smithing" unless your frame is some how out of spec.

Cost for the C&S parts plus the sear springs is about $90 IIRC.

Installation is pretty straight forward if you can read, comprehend and follow directions. No special tools are required. If you get serious about this PM me and I will help you get the right parts, install them and do a function check.
 
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