This liberal finally gets it.

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Derek Zeanah

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I'm watching this video by Naomi Wolf and around 23 minutes in she gets to the "what does the 2nd amendment mean" question. I'm not done listening yet, but it's quite interesting.

(She's hyping a book that talks about the death of democracy and draws parallels from what we're seeing today with what happened in the last century under Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini, and so on.)
 
She was on O'Reilly Factor a few weeks back. If she gets the 2A then all the better for her. In other respects she came across as a sanctimonious nutcake, and worse; a true believer who had imbibed the Kool-Aid.
And come back for seconds ...
 
I just finished it -- thought it was quite refreshing.

Her focus in this clip (and I'm assuming in her book) is on preserving and restoring liberty. She even calls on the founders and recognizes this is a task individuals need to take up.

I'm quite impressed.
 
Query:

Does she *really* get it?

Does she understand that the erosion of liberty has been in full swing for 70 years, and the full contributions made by the liberal team?

Or is she just another person who suffers from Bush Derangement Syndrome, who believes that the erosion of liberty is an entirely 21st century affair, which will be easily rectified by a DNC administration?
 
Does she understand that the erosion of liberty has been in full swing for 70 years, and the full contributions made by the liberal team?

Or is she just another person who suffers from Bush Derangement Syndrome, who believes that the erosion of liberty is an entirely 21st century affair?
__________________
Well, I don't know the woman personally... ;)

I'll read the book and get back to you though. Or, you could listen to her 45 minute clip...
 
Impressive. Naomi Wolf was (is??) the epitome poster child for liberal feminism, a class of people most of us would not have ever thought to be an advocate of 2A rights. Who would have thought.

A clear reminder to keep an open mind, no matter who or what a person's background.

My ancestors, now deceased, lived through and presumably allowed Hitler's and Mussolini's ascendancy. I used to ask them such an aberration could have occurred in a civilized society, how such monsters came so close to world domination. The circumstances they described now seem disturbingly familiar.

Sounds like an interesting book.
 
WOW!!! I had heard from some others that this gal was a raving left wing nutbar, but after watching that video I get a sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach.

She is dead spot on in many respects.
 
I think it's one thing to say "I don't like guns for personal reasons," but it's completely different when you contemplate the death of the Republic...

Just a guess.
 
Her closing comments were Jeffersonian:

The Founders did not intend for us to delegate the defense of liberty to a professional class of pundits or politicians or constitutional scholars. ...
What the Founders intended was for ordinary Americans - ordinary people - to assume the patriot's task ... and see themselves as leaders, and take on the responsibility to restore liberty.

It's your job, it's my job, to channel the Founders' faith in us and to stand up for the extraordinary experiment that has given us freedom for two hundred years.

If we assume the patriot's task, (we) can give our children and grandchildren freedom indefinitely. But we have to believe in our power. The time to stand up for it is now.

:what:
 
This clip was posted a while ago, and removed/locked as it wasn't "gun related". What gives?
 
Her closing comments were Jeffersonian:

And yet, if she's a true "liberal," her life would have spent supporting things that Jefferson would (and did) argue strenously against.
 
Does she understand that the erosion of liberty has been in full swing for 70 years, and the full contributions made by the liberal team?

Or is she just another person who suffers from Bush Derangement Syndrome, who believes that the erosion of liberty is an entirely 21st century affair, which will be easily rectified by a DNC administration?

I am sure that her viewpoint differs from yours, but that is not as important as the fact that both major parties have contributed to the eroision of our republic.

I am a new poster here, but a longtime reader. I do not quite see the point of loaded terms like "Bush Derangement Syndrome". I believe it is very important to attract liberals to gun ownership, and this doesn't seem helpful in doing so.

As for believing that the DNC administration would fix everything, I think many liberals had hoped so. Most people I know hoped to regain the right of habeas corpus, and to end mass government surveillance of the people. But the democratic leadership have so obviously and miserably failed those hopes that vast numbers of liberals are now disenchanted with the DNC leadership.

Most "progressives" I know now support the RKBA because they are concerned with what they see as our nation's march towards fascism. I've talked quite a few fellow "liberals" into buying guns myself. I am not surprised by Naomi Wolf's support of the 2A, it represents a strong trend by the left toward the idea we may need to, one day, defend ourselves against tyranny.
 
Most "progressives" I know now support the RKBA because they are concerned with what they see as our nation's march towards fascism. I've talked quite a few fellow "liberals" into buying guns myself. I am not surprised by Naomi Wolf's support of the 2A, it represents a strong trend by the left toward the idea we may need to, one day, defend ourselves against tyranny.

Yep. I was wandering around a book store last night, and I stumbled across some "liberal" fiction in the same mindset as some "conservative" fiction: "they" are out to take away our freedom and turn our country in to a dictatorship.

It's fascinating that many of the same arguments are repeated by both sides -- how lies and special interests are eroding the day to day freedom of the ordinary man.

The sad part is that so many can't pull themselves out of their reactionary mindsets. You see it here with "liberal" = "anti-gun". Every time this comes up a number of folks with "liberal" mindsets come out of the woodwork and say "but hey, I've got guns too", but still the idiotic name calling continues...all the while both political parties attack the day to day freedoms of the people. Why? Well, it's in the best interest of any political party to maintain control and power. I'm sure they laugh at all of the name calling and finger pointing between the masses. Those folks up there, who make the decisions that affect your liberty, well, they're too smart to think that it all comes down to sound bite, "liberal"/"conservative" pre-programmed agenda.

Let's try this one more time. Some folks who believe "liberal" things, you know like what the h*** folks do in their bedrooms is none of the federal gov'ts business, or that perhaps wealth and the free market, while great tools, aren't the answer to anything, well, that doesn't immediately mean you hate guns and are mindless tool of the Marxist crowd.

The world is pretty complex, and the sooner folks realize that, the sooner us "peasants" can join together and actually protect our rights, rather than squabble and give those who would take them away more opportunity to do so.
 
I am sure that her viewpoint differs from yours, but that is not as important as the fact that both major parties have contributed to the eroision of our republic.

I am a new poster here, but a longtime reader. I do not quite see the point of loaded terms like "Bush Derangement Syndrome".

Welcome, glad you decloaked.

Differences of viewpoint are certainly welcomed.

In this case, the term "Bush Derangement Syndrome" is descriptive.

If you monitor the byways of the culture, you know that there are lot of people who hold fast to the idea that the threats to freedom are of entirely recent provenence, beginning roughly in 2000.

-IF- that is what they believe, they are very likely to misdiagnose the situation, and arrive at a bad conclusion as to what would constitute an effective remedy.

For example, the belief that the right of habeus corpus no longer exists, or that the .gov is mass surveilling the people are examples.

At plain old face value, neither statement is actually true. This is not to say that there aren't problems with those topics, but an understanding of what the dimensions of the problems are and aren't is kinda necessary.

Simple jingoes like "Habeus corpus is dead! The government is mass surveilling everyone!" are poor descriptions of our current state, and frankly, tend to serve partisan interests rather than liberty's interest.

Of course if I point that out, then *I*'m cast as the one picking a partisan fight. :banghead:
 
Geek:

I'm not sure I'd want to make the argument that mass-surveillance isn't happening. You could argue that the technology isn't there yet, but it sure looks like surveillance is happening on a wide scale (see the NSA/AT&T accusations and lawsuit for one example).

I'll agree with you that it's frustrating to see partisanship involved -- self-described "liberals" are pissed off at what's happened under Bush's watch, and "conservatives" who were nearly up in arms about "slick Willie" and Janet Reno's proposals had no problems when worse was done under "one of us" (or for that matter when they were all clumped together and passed as T.H.E.P.A.T.R.I.O.T.A.C.T. without anyone reading the damn thing before voting on it because only one copy of the legislation was available when the vote went up.)

The country would be better off if we could stop labeling ourselves and seeing folks with other labels as enemies, but mass-media does a lot to get people to fall into that mindset. I don't see that changing any time soon, unfortunately. :(

Just an observation -- no accusations intended. :)
 
Pickin' a Fight?

Of course if I point that out, then *I*'m cast as the one picking a partisan fight. :banghead:
Well . . .

That's only because you're a closed-minded reactionary bigot.

And a fascist. Which is different from a socialist. Because socialism is teh awesome and fascism is teh suq.

And if you argue with me, you only make my point that you're an irrational nutjob. Because, after all, who but a nutjob would argue with me when I'm clearly right?

I might add . . . clearly right, as always.
 
geekWithA.45 said:
Simple jingoes like "Habeus corpus is dead! The government is mass surveilling everyone!" are poor descriptions of our current state, and frankly, tend to serve partisan interests rather than liberty's interest.

Of course if I point that out, then *I*'m cast as the one picking a partisan fight.


No, that's exactly what I'm saying sound bites don't do any of us any good....

but then I'd say

Does she understand that the erosion of liberty has been in full swing for 70 years, and the full contributions made by the liberal team?

is picking a partisan fight.

Of course anything said against the slanderous use of "liberal" around here brings forth ArfinGreebly's "High Road" responses.
 
No, she still doesn't get it.

Her so-called 2nd Amendment support is (verbatim) "The Founders knew that the army had to be answerable to the people" and says that the threat to liberty is the POTUS federalizing the National Guard in violation of the 2nd.

BS.

She should have said, "It is your duty as young liberals - if you are of age and have no felonies - to own a gun and learn how to shoot it in order to fight possible incursions of paramilitary forces. The 2nd Amendment says that our right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed so private citizens would have the tools and ability to fight paramilitaries."
 
Well . . .

That's only because you're a closed-minded reactionary bigot.

D'oh! I keep forgetting that, even though it says so right on my driver's license and organ donor card, next to my blood type. :neener:

but then I'd say

Quote:Does she understand that the erosion of liberty has been in full swing for 70 years, and the full contributions made by the liberal team?

is picking a partisan fight.

Not really, even though it sorta looks like it.

What I'm calling for is a thorough understanding of all guilty parties on both sides, for the last 100 years.

The reason it looks like picking a fight is because I'm calling for balance against the indictment of the most recent transgressions.
 
What I'm calling for is a thorough understanding of all guilty parties on both sides, for the last 100 years.

That I'll agree to.

My point is that there are plenty of folks like me, who would be accused of being "liberal" by a good many "conservatives", who 1) support firearms ownership, and 2) don't care for the "erosion of civil liberties", however we want to define that.

I don't claim to be a "liberal" myself (some accuse me of being a "radical moderate libertarian minarchist", whatever that is)...but I think there are plenty of folks who do identify with that term who are far more supportive of individual rights, including the RKBA than many here would think. I guess it all comes down to whether you're a lumper or a splitter.

I do think that there are too many "simple jingoes" that "tend to serve partisan interests rather than liberty's interest" on both sides.


Edited to add:

The reason it looks like picking a fight is because I'm calling for balance against the indictment of the most recent transgressions.

Unfortunately political memories are insanely short.
 
* Sigh *

Of course anything said against the slanderous use of "liberal" around here brings forth ArfinGreebly's "High Road" responses.
You will note, if you look a bit, that I don't employ the term "liberal."

I've even explained why.

I do, however, use the term "socialist" when referring to any of the various flavors of totalitarianism that place the benefit and power of the state or collective above the benefit and liberty of the individual.

I have even, on occasion, made ironic use of the terms "socialism" and "fascism" to emphasize that they are both totalitarian and have no truck with personal liberty.

I don't employ the term "liberal" because it has been co-opted and no longer "means what you think it means."

It is no secret that the collective-uber-alles groups have, over the years, adopted monikers like "liberal" and "progressive" and "social Democrat" to avoid the stigma attendant on referring to themselves as communists and socialists.

I once described myself as liberal. Once the meaning changed, I had to stop doing that because the "understanding" it evoked was at odds with what I meant.

When reading what someone writes (especially on teh webz) I take some pains to derive, from context, what he means by the terms he uses. My responsive remarks are hopefully calibrated for that context.

Some words, however, like "liberal," are simply magnets for misunderstanding, and so I try to use a word that better conveys my meaning.

And for those who don't "get" my ironic use of "socialism" in the above context, it's used in its double-edged application as a) the word that described the warm, fuzzy Swedish Utopia of the '50s and '60s as it was perceived over here, and b) the word that describes the actuality of totalitarian tyranny as practiced in the majority of regimes that claim that title.

It pains me that I am perceived as liberal-bashing to any degree.

But then, I have an older understanding of the word.

I am loathe to apologize for my use of irony.

It's a dirty job, but someone's got to do it.
 
Moderator or not Arfin, I'd say that post wasn't "irony" but d**n near putting spiteful words in someone else's mouth.

And if you argue with me, you only make my point that you're an irrational nutjob. Because, after all, who but a nutjob would argue with me when I'm clearly right?

Ah, ok, so you're saying I would call you a "nutjob" and claim that "I must be right"? Oh, that's just irony, you're not really attacking a person and accusing them of being socialist and closed minded. Just irony. Must be fun to be a mod and get to side step the rules, huh?
 
Ah, ok, so you're saying I would call you a "nutjob" and claim that "I must be right"? Oh, that's just irony, you're not really attacking a person and accusing them of being socialist and closed minded. Just irony. Must be fun to be a mod and get to side step the rules, huh?
You seem to have the impression that my over-the-top characterization of a particular style of argumentation was personally directed.

Please be disabused of this.

I honestly don't do personal attacks.

Keith, I have considerable respect for your views and your abilities.

I've long recognized that you're one of the good guys.

No offense was meant, and that you felt that it was tells me I need to work on my presentation.

My being a moderator doesn't mean I somehow became magically better at articulating my thoughts. That's a long-time work in progress.

I've actually been in arguments with people whose style and position was essentially as portrayed. If you have some time to waste, and an inclination to wander through a fairly undisciplined set of thoughts, you might google the phrase "thrived on dialog" (include the quotes) and you'll find a whimsical thing I wrote years ago. It's on the original (c2) wiki, and has edits embedded in it that I didn't write, but the theme is still clear.

Please accept my apologies for having failed to articulate what was lightly meant, and not personally intended.

I'll keep working on that.
 
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