Discharge at the Show today

Starship1, that's a promoter rule, not AZ law. Also, TCC, where the GOOD shows are, bars lawful carry, last time I was there.But that's relative, haven't been to a gun show in years that wasn't full of overpriced junk, and stupid Nazi "memorabilia", gag.

Another exhibitor was reholstering his personal CCW, a .25 semi auto, when it discharged

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I believe you mean "when the owner left his booger-hook on the bang switch and squeezed".

Don't fall for the syntactic trap.

Hell, they don't load that much punishment on murderes.

Seems excessive to me. Do you charge all that when someone's foot slips off the brake onto the gas pedal and he rams a building?

I agree completely with the gun club's actions.

This guy's pistol never would have "gone off" if he hadn't:

1) Brought it, loaded, into the show, violating posted rules.
2) Whipped it out to show it to someone.
3) Put his finger on the trigger.

It only has to happen once. And then all the "I'm sorries" can't bring someone back.

When I was a boy and we started to go hunting with my old man, he had us walk with him for a season without a gun. Then we could carry break-open shotguns without shells. Then we were given shells.

On the otherhand, my next-door neighbor shot himself in the femoral artery while crossing a fence with a 30-30. He lived because his hunting buddy had a tourniquet.

The last place I want to be is around a bunch of jokers with loaded guns who think a ND is "no big thing, happens to everyone once."

If we can't tolerate people carrying at Gun Shows - because it is so dangerous - then how can we trust them to carry in public?

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It's a standard rule that every gun at a show be unloaded. There can't be any exceptions, because of the risk of a mixup.

Also, It's the only way these gun shows can be insured. This guy knew what he was doing, and why it was wrong. The gun club is right to go after him. He's put the future of gun shows into jeopardy, and the club can't give him a pass without risking future infractions.

All I know is this: some gun owners - those who eagerly demonize other gun owners - are the de Facto allies of the Brady Bunch.

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Yeah, right.

If this old dude accidentally put that round through his grandson's forehead, that would be pretty much the end of gun shows in that town. No help from the Brady Bunch needed.

Carrying a gun is a serious responsibility. There is nothing wrong or improper about punishing people who fail to respect that.

Are there even any well made .25's out there other then maybe the berettas or walthers?

Frankly, and folks hate it when I point this out, the gun community is *very* quick to excommunicate its members in the trampling rush to prove that "oh, WE aren't like THOSE irresponsible gun owners."

The gun community is all too gleefull when it flings its brethren under the bus, and this has always bothered me.

It is not the signals that emanate from strong community.

Sounds like your club VP is a blowhard.

The announcements were regular and often after this. The vice president of our club, a local LEO, informed the entire exhibition hall of the following:

The offender has been charged with firing in the city and some form of endangerment;

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Explain to me why making this announcement regularly throught the day at the show was necessary?

His CCW gun has been confiscated and will be destroyed;

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Your VP also a judge?

His CHL is being petitioned to be revoked;

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Pretty fast paperwork done on a weekend, eh?

He was allowed to leave the show only because he had his young grandson with him (hastily escorted out);

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warrant will be issued for his arrest;
He has been barred from all future shows;[/QUOTE]

This last one is kinda contradictory.

"we wanted to keep him here, but he had his kid so he left. We've banned him, though."

Warrant my rear end. If he were that big a menace to society why didn't your cop VP detain him for the police and place him into custody on the spot? Hell, why didn't officer friendly just execute him on the spot for the crowd's enjoyment?

Yep, your LEO VP buddy is a self-important moron.


That's an awful lot of stuff happening in a couple hours.

I agree with geekWithA.45 all the way and want to add this fron 2 previous threads

I think this might be my next signature

and again I say
Yes here at The High Road no one ever makes a mistake and death to those that do

+1
Some folks are so ready to yell at someone sweeping, or doing something improperly, yet they do not understand that they scare people away from local ranges and similar. People come up with rather inaccurate views or opinions (raging debates over whether this is right or wrong, which is better, etc...) because they have no one available to explain a situation. Instead, we rant and rave about how ignorant the public is regarding firearms, but yet, some shooters are ignorant regarding the public.

When the word gets out to the left that even gun shows are, in effect, "gun free zones", I wonder when the first gun show shooting will occur.

I've never had a ND (though folks do say there are those who have, and those who will... I'll try to stay out of either group), I have a big problem with treating someone who made a mistake, harming no one, like a violent criminal. Yeah, NDs are bad juju, and I'm pretty sure that he's punishing himself pretty severely anyway. Not only that, but he's lost a lot of respect in his own peer group.
As for 'legality'... well, I agree that a negligent discharge in a populated area should be a chargeable violation, with perhaps a fine. I just don't buy into "It's the Law, so it must be Right" stuff.


SamTucker. Yeah, that was a DEA agent crowing to the kids about he was the only person present who was qualified to hold a "Glock Fo'tay", right before shooting himself in the leg. Then he limped back and went on to explain that "Dat's what happens!" or some such.
Well... yeah! If a moron handles a loaded weapon, crap like that happens!
Of course, being a gov-goon, he was not only not charged or punished, but carried out an effort to sue whomever was responsible for the release of the video. Hey.... he's an Untouchable, just like Horiuchi.

for me i ask why the heck did he unholster? if he knew he would be trying on holsters and such or just to show it off he should have cleared the weapon. honestly i feel everything is just, except the arrest, destruction of weapon, and the loss of CWP. that is a little far i think, he shipped up but it could have been remidied by a fine or revoked permit for a year or something.

I can't help but read the list of things that were announced immediately after the ND and ask myself how this would have played out if the miscreant wore a badge.

I'm not bashing, I'm just saying ...

It seems a little odd that that whole sentence was carried out in a matter of 5 minutes.

I could see him being banned from the club, and being thrown out of the event. Even the "owner/promoter/whatever" deciding to press charges on a negligent discharge, or even the city pressing the charges. He probably just got a summons.

It seems weird that his gun was already going to be destroyed and his credit history would be erased or whatever the hell else judgments are already being passed on him.

Most of that stuff was probable hearsay anyway. Like, "I bet he'll lose his ccw for that, they'll have to destroy the gun, and give 50 lashes to his first born".

I'd say wait to get all the facts, because what'll probably happen is he'll get a fine, and not be allowed to have tables at that, or probably any, gun show in the future.

Frankly, and folks hate it when I point this out, the gun community is *very* quick to excommunicate its members in the trampling rush to prove that "oh, WE aren't like THOSE irresponsible gun owners."

The gun community is all too gleefull when it flings its brethren under the bus, and this has always bothered me.

It is not the signals that emanate from strong community.

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Abso-frickin-lutely!

Geez, nothing grates on me more than the "it makes us LOOK BAD" (whatever 'it' may be, the flavor du jour).

No -- it doesn't make ME look bad at all. Simple fact -- that man broke the law, I didn't. I've asked this question many times and, as usual, gotten no response: does a wife beater give married men a bad name? Does a drunk driver give all drivers a bad name? Does a child murderer give all mothers a bad name? Does an income tax evader give all taxpayers a bad name?

I choose to hold alliance with certain groups by self-identifying with them. If you put me into a certain category, it's not my problem -- it's yours.

All of you who rush to judgement -- to eagerly point out how you're not the same as this person and are gleefully punishing him even more severely to provide some twisted sense of proof -- to a people who will use everything against 'us' no matter what the source anyway...

I'm giving you all a round of applause in doing all the dirty work for them. 'The antis' can sit back and laugh while your guilty consciences destroy the cohesiveness of 'our group.'

WOW!

Let me start true he should get some punishment (being throw out that is all), but this (to me at least) is just another case of a gun club gone crazy,

I see quite a few there is one in this state, range you are not allowed to shoot unless you can hit a 5in circle at 20ft (I know it is not hard but think of a new shooter), Gun clubs that if you accidentally load your weapon when you are not supposed to they will throw you out and de-member you. (considering some memberships are 100 at a minimum). Another is Fudd's that control the range, I kid you not these people who pretty much look like "NRA or die" (no offense to NRA members I'm having a hard time phrasing this) and they wont allow high caps on the range. I am also a fan of cases where (they are all over this forum too) someone was plinking along (bang,pause,bang,pause,bang) and the RSO came and gave them the third degree.

Does anybody remember the recent ATF case where the guy's rifle doubled and they gave him some grief.......The ATF did not catch him ,he was at the range the gun doubled and the CLUB called the ATF on him. I can honesty see why there have been more threads recently on how to make your own range.

geekWithA.45: Frankly, and folks hate it when I point this out, the gun community is *very* quick to excommunicate its members in the trampling rush to prove that "oh, WE aren't like THOSE irresponsible gun owners."

The gun community is all too gleefull when it flings its brethren under the bus, and this has always bothered me.

It is not the signals that emanate from strong community.

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Sad and all to true.

IMHO they are coming down on the guy awfully harsh for an AD. (Never agreed with the disarmed Gun Show Idea myself)

[edit]to those who say "His finger was on the trigger" how do you know? some holsters have needless pieces of material on them that can get caught inside the trigger guard and have the possibility to pull the trigger, that could have been what happened, this is why i'm not a fan of retention straps, to easy for them to become a problem.[/edit]

Just my $0.02

If you have to meet accuracy standards before being allowed to practice on a particular range, I hope they already have a pretty devoted paying membership, as new shooters would be pretty much shut out.

I'm looking for a non-NRA range right now, but not having a lot of luck. I may have to bite the bullet and join again, just so's I can go shooting again.

Just a question, but if someone had been injured with that round, would you still be willing to cut this guy a break?

Personally, I think if it does change your opinion, you're not exactly being consistent with your logic.

Fact is that people have accidents every day the results of which varry however people do get injured and or killed. Neglegence is a seperate issue and there should be retributions due when others get injured or killed by negligence.
My thoughts are that he should not have to answer unjustly for his error. This includes all day anouncements and his fellow gun owners tossing him into the volcano as a human sacrafice to the Liberal gods in hopes that they will not take our guns.

Curiously I Found No Statistics-

Did a quick google for gun show NDs, it would appear nobody keeps track?

I tend to view NDs a bit harsher than most after seeing a young girl blinded by a glaser fired into a cement floor and years later being shot at another gunshow and then losing MY club membership for future gunshows promoted by the same club.

Then again there is no way to ban idiots.

I think the treatment is a bit excessive, but he's gotta be punished and this "he's probably punishing himself already" crap ain't gonna cut it. I was at a show this weekend and i left my CCW in the car. The rifle i was trying to get rid of was zip-tied by the LEO sitting at the entry, where 30.06 (I always thought that number was ironic) was prominently posted. I had no questions about how my guns had to be secured in the show. It was all posted up there.

I tend to view NDs a bit harsher than most after seeing a young girl blinded by a glaser fired into a cement floor and years later being shot at another gunshow and then losing MY club membership for future gunshows promoted by the same club.

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Ok am I reading this right?
You got shot at a gun show and your club banned you. did I read that correctly?

Those who try to appease the lion do so in hope that they are the last to be eaten.

--quote, though I don't remember from whom.


Colin, while I agree with you in that alone isn't sufficient (remember the Menendez brothers' defense? Poor kids would have to go on without their parents. Boo hoo.), I think the loss of respect and his further treatment by his peers will suffice, given the lack of actual damage. If he had done some, or injured anyone, he should be held fully responsible for that.
It can be a tough call, but I believe that self-punishment works well for a moral individual who makes a mistake, while a wholly immoral person would probably need a good lashing, as the former will probably bend over backwards to prevent the incident from ever happening again, while the latter probably doesn't care much anyway.
I've met one of the latter, and stopped hanging out with him when he ND'ed a .22 revolver into the floor of his second floor apartment.
He laughed about it, and I went downstairs to knock on the downstairs door. Fortunately it wasn't occupied (the place was a dump), and I just stopped having any sort of contact with him from then on.

I think there's been two NDs at the Austin show that I'm aware of (in the past 3-5 years).
One, a guy put a 40 into his own butt while checking out holsters.
Two, a couple of years later a vendor blasted one into the floor/ceiling. This one, I *think* was with 30.06 signs (as a result of the earlier ND). One of the other vendors mentioned it, said he was told to pack up and was banned, not sure about anything else regarding legal matters.

In short, there wasn't ongoing squawking about destroying guns and what not. NDs are to be takend seriously and criminal actions prosecuted when warranted. However, the incident described here (the ongoing blathering) just makes me shake my head...