Sav .250
Member
Sounds like the Orlando Gun Show a month or so back. Same thing. I was there.
Shot Fired at Gun Show
- Thread starter Cactus Jack Arizona
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Kentucky_Rifleman
Member
At the shows in this neck of the woods, ALL guns are empty and zip-tied open. They also ban loose ammo and loaded magazines, but they don't search anyone's pockets.
The policy is, I believe, more of a CYA liability rule, and I have no problem with it as enforced. I'd guess at least half the guys at the show have a full magazine in a pocket, "just in case," and LOTS of the guys carry the micro wire cutters for popping off the zip ties to look at bores, check revolver timing, etc.
For what it's worth, I've been a regular show attendee for 20 odd years, and have only heard one ND at a Lexington show. That was 15 years ago or more.
KR
Why were the cops taking property? If nobody was injured, I am missing where this is a police matter.
Maybe 30 years ago I was at a big gun show when someone cranked off a round from a high powered rifle. Same reaction as described by others. Nobody jumped or flinched, just froze. After about 3 seconds a voice called out; "Nobody is hurt!"
Then the crowd returned to normal activity. It was sort of surreal.
You have to be realistic. With that many guns being handled by that many people the odds will catch up with you from time to time.
Maybe 30 years ago I was at a big gun show when someone cranked off a round from a high powered rifle. Same reaction as described by others. Nobody jumped or flinched, just froze. After about 3 seconds a voice called out; "Nobody is hurt!"
Then the crowd returned to normal activity. It was sort of surreal.
You have to be realistic. With that many guns being handled by that many people the odds will catch up with you from time to time.
Reacting to the shot
It is incredible the way people react, or in a lot of cases fail to react to the sound of gunfire. I would like to think that if I were in that situation that I would react appropriately and not over react. My definition of appropriately in this case is to get down low. With all of the other idiots standing there, there are plenty of easy targets left that you are probably safe. If a second shot goes off it is obviously time to do more.
On a somewhat related note, I was at home late one night when, what sounded like 3 shots came from outside. I was not the only one who heard the shots. I know this because my neighbors started gathering on the street. I went out as well, mostly to tell the ones I liked to take themselves, and there kids back inside. I was armed of course. We never did find out who fired the shots. Since we all heard a speeding car right before the shots, it is likely it was a couple of kids firing randomly from the car. Since I live in a pretty good neighborhood, I think a lot of my neighbors think that bad things can't happen on their street.
It is incredible the way people react, or in a lot of cases fail to react to the sound of gunfire. I would like to think that if I were in that situation that I would react appropriately and not over react. My definition of appropriately in this case is to get down low. With all of the other idiots standing there, there are plenty of easy targets left that you are probably safe. If a second shot goes off it is obviously time to do more.
On a somewhat related note, I was at home late one night when, what sounded like 3 shots came from outside. I was not the only one who heard the shots. I know this because my neighbors started gathering on the street. I went out as well, mostly to tell the ones I liked to take themselves, and there kids back inside. I was armed of course. We never did find out who fired the shots. Since we all heard a speeding car right before the shots, it is likely it was a couple of kids firing randomly from the car. Since I live in a pretty good neighborhood, I think a lot of my neighbors think that bad things can't happen on their street.
oldfool
Member
Why were the cops taking property? If nobody was injured, I am missing where this is a police matter.
would have to ask them, I suppose, but such phrases as "reckless endangerment" and/or "discharge of firearm within city limits" might well apply
(it's a gun show, not a gun range)
in any case, I shed no tears for some idjit who drops an ND in any place like that
they will have to look elsewhere for their legal defense fund, not look to me
better arrested than punched in the head by some old fool (and far better for the old fool too)
would have to ask them, I suppose, but such phrases as "reckless endangerment" and/or "discharge of firearm within city limits" might well apply
(it's a gun show, not a gun range)
in any case, I shed no tears for some idjit who drops an ND in any place like that
they will have to look elsewhere for their legal defense fund, not look to me
better arrested than punched in the head by some old fool (and far better for the old fool too)
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I am amazed
at the number of times this has occured. Several people on this thread have had this experience. That is a little bit scary. I have seen plenty of idiots at gunshgows and gunshops but never to this degree. Maybe I won't go to the gunshow at the end of the month.
By the way, Old Fool is right, they should have taken his gun away.
at the number of times this has occured. Several people on this thread have had this experience. That is a little bit scary. I have seen plenty of idiots at gunshgows and gunshops but never to this degree. Maybe I won't go to the gunshow at the end of the month.
By the way, Old Fool is right, they should have taken his gun away.
arcticap
Member
There was an ND at a busy local gunshop/commercial firing range when a lady returned her rented pistol to the rental desk in the gun store without telling the clerk that it was still loaded due to her inablility to clear it. He improperly attempted to clear it by aiming it at the ground and pulling the trigger when it went off, hitting the carpet. No one was injured and I didn't hear that he was ever arrested. But I do believe that he was fired and that the shop now checks each [rental] gun before it leaves the range.
So maybe it's the circumstances and place of the ND that leads to a judgement call of making an arrest. If an LEO is actually present or if there's a complaint, then there's the greatest likelihood of an arrest.
So maybe it's the circumstances and place of the ND that leads to a judgement call of making an arrest. If an LEO is actually present or if there's a complaint, then there's the greatest likelihood of an arrest.
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ChuteTheMall
Member
I'm glad the crowd didn't panic and all dive for the same cover: Much of my time at crowded gun shows involves trying to keep some moron's slung rifle muzzle from hitting my teeth, while dodging backpacks and strollers.
Assuming the guy was being arrested and/or ejected, I'm glad the police were securing his valuable property on his behalf before leading him away.
Although I'd probably just freeze in place while evaluating the situation, I might be tempted to fix a bayonet onto a nearby rifle in case a riot breaks out.
Assuming the guy was being arrested and/or ejected, I'm glad the police were securing his valuable property on his behalf before leading him away.
Although I'd probably just freeze in place while evaluating the situation, I might be tempted to fix a bayonet onto a nearby rifle in case a riot breaks out.
The crowd didn't stay put because each and every person logically deduced that the chance of the gunshot being accidental and singular was greater than the chance of injury if they were to leave in a hurry.
The crowd stayed put because when faced with evidence that something has gone horribly wrong, most people refuse to believe that they're in danger. Lost hikers do it all the time.
Luckily, in this case, they were right.
The crowd stayed put because when faced with evidence that something has gone horribly wrong, most people refuse to believe that they're in danger. Lost hikers do it all the time.
Luckily, in this case, they were right.
Owen Sparks
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When a single shot is fired inside a very large room like this it is very hard to tell what direction it came from because of the echo.
Physiologically and psychologically speaking when a human is confronted by the unusual they usually freeze for a moment while they process the information. It's in the breed. Once they have been confronted by a situation (and lived through it) they then second guess what they could have done better and when confronted by a similar event they tend to react differently. Have seen and heard people talk about all kinds of stuff they would do in a given situation (macho) only to mess their pants when things hit the fan. Anyone can be cool for the first couple of mortar rounds but by the 20th even atheist are asking God to please make them quit!
In the military, in a real combat unit which kills and is killed, when replacements arrive they are "New Guys" (derogative name) . The new guys are to be seen but not heard. Eyes open watch and learn. If they survive the first couple of engagements/situations they learn and are more apt to respond in an appropriate manner as time goes by. The military and many law enforcement agencies train for all kind of situations but an ambush is an ambush and again a millisecond can mean the difference between taking one for god and country or as Patten once said something to the effect, " Your job is not to die for your country but to make the other guy die for his"! We are all New Guys in some ways/situations; that is why those who are prone to be in life and death situations on a regular basis (not talking about the paranoid individuals who perceives Zombies around every corner) are always training/second guessing and rear seat driving every event they read/experience or hear about. Just my opinion
In the military, in a real combat unit which kills and is killed, when replacements arrive they are "New Guys" (derogative name) . The new guys are to be seen but not heard. Eyes open watch and learn. If they survive the first couple of engagements/situations they learn and are more apt to respond in an appropriate manner as time goes by. The military and many law enforcement agencies train for all kind of situations but an ambush is an ambush and again a millisecond can mean the difference between taking one for god and country or as Patten once said something to the effect, " Your job is not to die for your country but to make the other guy die for his"! We are all New Guys in some ways/situations; that is why those who are prone to be in life and death situations on a regular basis (not talking about the paranoid individuals who perceives Zombies around every corner) are always training/second guessing and rear seat driving every event they read/experience or hear about. Just my opinion
In my town, must have been 15years ago, a guy buys a S&W semi auto with ammunition and magazines. On leaving the entrance to the gun show, but still inside the Civic Auditorium, he inserts a loaded magazine and cuts the wire tie strap. Somehow this, and I was told the wire tie strap interfered with the trigger, created an accidental discharge and the guy shoots himself in the gut. It severs his spine so now he is in a wheel chair.
This was enough so the anti gunners in city hall banned Gun Shows at what is the biggest and best building for these activities in the city.
The more these things happen, the less gun shows there will be.
This was enough so the anti gunners in city hall banned Gun Shows at what is the biggest and best building for these activities in the city.
The more these things happen, the less gun shows there will be.
Guns and more
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As crowded as gun shows are, I'm surprised someone wasn't hit.
Captcurt
Member
We have a sign at the door: No CCW!
It is amazing how some people are so nonchalant when it comes to handling weapons. We had lawyer shoot a hole through the wall of the Sherrif's office when a Bail Bondsman let him handle his conceal gun. And this was after he was told that it was loaded.
Moral of the story?
Don't give a loaded firearm to ANYBODY!!!
It is amazing how some people are so nonchalant when it comes to handling weapons. We had lawyer shoot a hole through the wall of the Sherrif's office when a Bail Bondsman let him handle his conceal gun. And this was after he was told that it was loaded.
Moral of the story?
Don't give a loaded firearm to ANYBODY!!!
ny32182
Member
Every now and then we have a thread about how bad it is that CC isn't allowed at many gun shows and gun shops... well, this is why. Because some moron is going to pull out his loaded gun and introduce it into an environment where everyone assumes all the guns are unloaded. This is probably done 1000 times for each time an AD is the result, regardless of the rules.
I'm also curious about what kind of "reaction" some people expect from the crowd in this case. It is a room full of thousands of guns and hundreds or thousands of people. Lets think about the odds here; what is more likely in the case of a single shot heard in this environment?
1) AD... seems to happen so often that a good portion of gun owners are of the opinion that "there are two kinds of gun owners... those who have had an AD and those who will".
Or 2) You are witnessing the start of a mass shooting. The upper estimate of how likely that is to happen to any of us in any given year is somewhere aroud 3*10^-7.
Having everyone charge the exit would make the situation FAR worse than a single gunshot did.
I'm also curious about what kind of "reaction" some people expect from the crowd in this case. It is a room full of thousands of guns and hundreds or thousands of people. Lets think about the odds here; what is more likely in the case of a single shot heard in this environment?
1) AD... seems to happen so often that a good portion of gun owners are of the opinion that "there are two kinds of gun owners... those who have had an AD and those who will".
Or 2) You are witnessing the start of a mass shooting. The upper estimate of how likely that is to happen to any of us in any given year is somewhere aroud 3*10^-7.
Having everyone charge the exit would make the situation FAR worse than a single gunshot did.
Shadow 7D
Member
Part of it is most people don't see the immediate cause, like gun guy points out, one bang can be anything, most likely a ND, bang, bangbangbanb, I'm ducking and out of there. So being still, can also be seen as preparing to act, really what do you expect, a stampede to the doors????
jonmerritt
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Wife and I were in town at the grocery store, while taking our bounty to the pickup, we heard 2 rounds from a shotgun (no mistake it was a shotgun). We both got real aware of our surroundings and watching people and vehicles, and keeping an eye looking in the direction of the shots. We loaded up and got the $#%% out of there! 2 blocks away in the other direction, cop cars went flying by, no lights or sirens, but in a big hurry. We didn't stop and look (perfect target), we started moving our butts out of there.
Badlander
Member
Where was this gunshow?
Cactus Jack Arizona
Member
The show happened in Springfield, Missouri. There was about an hour left in the day's show when it happened. I gather from what I've been reading that I more than likely did react in the best way possible for just a single shot ND.
I'm not sure just how one determines what is an accidental discharge and what is a negligent discharge. I would think that an Accidental Discharge is when you are at home and decide to clean your weapon without clearing it. Although I'm sure it was an accident from his point of view, I would think that in this case, with hundreds of people around, it would be classified as a Negligent Discharge.
I believe that the LEO's were right in the taking of property in this situation. Accident or not, they have to make a full report and that would include the firearm and any fired/unfired rounds still in the gun. I don't think it will be a situation where he will lose his weapon permanently, it's just a normal procedure that is required of LEO's. The vendor will probably get his pistol back in 3 days or so. However, I'm not sure if he'll lose his CCW permit or not. I'll have to keep up on the story when/if more comes out in the news from what we were already told at the gun show.
I'm not sure just how one determines what is an accidental discharge and what is a negligent discharge. I would think that an Accidental Discharge is when you are at home and decide to clean your weapon without clearing it. Although I'm sure it was an accident from his point of view, I would think that in this case, with hundreds of people around, it would be classified as a Negligent Discharge.
I believe that the LEO's were right in the taking of property in this situation. Accident or not, they have to make a full report and that would include the firearm and any fired/unfired rounds still in the gun. I don't think it will be a situation where he will lose his weapon permanently, it's just a normal procedure that is required of LEO's. The vendor will probably get his pistol back in 3 days or so. However, I'm not sure if he'll lose his CCW permit or not. I'll have to keep up on the story when/if more comes out in the news from what we were already told at the gun show.
Justin Holder
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At least no one screamed "Run for your lives! He's got a gun!"
It sounds like everyone did the right thing by staying calm and allowing the LEOs to do what needed to be done.
It sounds like everyone did the right thing by staying calm and allowing the LEOs to do what needed to be done.
MinnMooney
Member
What is the crowd supposed to do? I hear shots all the time out here in the country, at the range and during hunting. I've grown accustomed to hearing shots sevral times a week. I don't flinch. I don't worry. I look in the direction of the shot to see if something is good, bad or ugly. Otherwise, little to no reaction............ just like the gunshow crowd.
Let's not over create a "much ado about nothing".
Let's not over create a "much ado about nothing".
Was the guy arrested? If so, why? Usually an arrest in this sort of situation is after review by the prosecutor to determine if a crime was committed or if it was simply an accident.
Even if he was arrested, why are cops bagging up guns other than the one involved in the AD? This sounds like forfeiture without due process to me. How would you like it if the cops decided to impound your car after a minor traffic accident? And not just the one you were driving, mind you, but they tow away all the cars parked at your house.
Even if he was arrested, why are cops bagging up guns other than the one involved in the AD? This sounds like forfeiture without due process to me. How would you like it if the cops decided to impound your car after a minor traffic accident? And not just the one you were driving, mind you, but they tow away all the cars parked at your house.
orionengnr
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I'm not so sure that this is as common an occurance as some seem to believe.
In the last six years I have probably been to at least fifty gun shows (my wife would probably estimate the number to be at least double that, and she might be right).
At only one time have I heard a round discharged. It was about a year ago at Dallas Market Hall. I had just paid, gotten inside, and was looking around for my friend when I hear a shot from just outside. I would guess that someone was "clearing" his handgun before going inside.
I moved pretty quickly away from the entrance
Never heard any more details, but since there is generally a police presence, I would bet his day did not get much better from that point on.
In the last six years I have probably been to at least fifty gun shows (my wife would probably estimate the number to be at least double that, and she might be right).
At only one time have I heard a round discharged. It was about a year ago at Dallas Market Hall. I had just paid, gotten inside, and was looking around for my friend when I hear a shot from just outside. I would guess that someone was "clearing" his handgun before going inside.
I moved pretty quickly away from the entrance
Never heard any more details, but since there is generally a police presence, I would bet his day did not get much better from that point on.
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