Telephoto lens for park surveillance

that is how everybody should be at all times. les crime if people would just keep a eye open for "problems"




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I recall one of those news investigation stories about child abductions. They had a man pick up a little girl and carry her away; the whole time the girl was screaming, “Let me go you’re not my dad!” every single person looked but did nothing except for two young black (gangsta looking) males who surrounded the man and wouldn’t let him leave.

Judging people by how they look is foolish.

Rainbowbob,

There is something about this that bothers me..........Allow me to play Devil's Advocate.

You are in a park that contains dope smoking grown kids, quite a few of them, with your grandson.....You are taking pictures with an expensive looking, I assume, SLR type camera. To make things worse, you are looking through a telephoto lens attached to the camera at these young toughs, observing them. They may or may not be engaged in criminal activity. They do not know if you are taking photos or not. You are alone with the exception of your vulnerable grandson.

When you are peering through your lens to the toughs West of you, you do not know whether the ones to the North South and East are observing your behavior. Do not think that you can convince them you were not photographing their behavior for law enforcement. You can not reason with an enraged person high on alcohol or drugs.

What you were doing was extremely provocative. There is the risk of a retalitory, potentially life altering beating for you. The bonus is they get a nice camera from the deal. If you are fortunate, you will be left alone, but if they decide to approach you, you can expect to be defending you and your grandson against at least five to ten of them. There is a lot of bravado in numbers, but there is also strength. How do you know they are not carrying guns themselves?

Don't think that your CCW can protect you and your grandson from five to ten young criminals intent on dishing out their own style of twisted justice. If they want a few more homies to join then, they can just call them on a cell phone and wait a bit for them to show up while you continue to take photos. How would you know if this was happening? Even if you are forced to shoot one and the rest run away, your grandson will be scarred by the experience. So will you. Even worse, your grandson may see Grandpa killed right in front of him. There is a good chance you will never get off a shot because you are engaged in observation of their activities, protecting your grandson, and you can not see everything at once. There is strength in numbers, simply because the attack can come from all directions at once.

Now I wasn't there, so I can't make a valid judgement of the situation, but I urge you to reassess what you were doing. If these young people were actually criminal types engaged in criminal activity, it was not a good idea. In fact, it was a provocative, bad idea. You did not know whether you were an easy target or not, because you did not know or appreciate their strength in numbers, willingness to attack you, affliations, or even their own firepower. You not only placed yourself at risk with your activities, but you placed your grandson at risk as well. I know you didn't intend to do that. Bottom line, appreciate another person's ability to cause you great harm. If you see something you feel is dangerous or criminal, do not provoke it. Snakes bite when poked with a stick.

On the other hand, Mainsail is correct. How do you know they were not looking at you wondering if you were a child predator? How would you feel if they began taking photos of you? You really can't judge a man's character by his appearance.

also sounds like a good way to get harassed for lechery... what happens if one of the dope smokers decides to claim that you were taking pictures of his 5 year old daughter?

rainbowbob said:

I was THERE to photograph and play with my grandson. That's what we do and that's what we did. I happen to position myself to occasionally discretely observe other park guests through my lense while doing so.

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Really?

rainbowbob said:

And even though I didn't make it obvious I was scoping and photographing them

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Would you be OK with one of the "creepazoids" (your term) surreptitiously photographing you, Gramma and your grandson? No paranoia or disquiet? No concern?

What the...?? Taking my grandson to the park to play on the equipment and take photos is a...what...??? It's illegal to take pictures of children in the park? Where do you live?

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i never accused you of anything... but are you prepared to deal with the possibility of having cops take you down to the station to quiz you about why you were taking pictures of people that are not related to you... again, its not about what you did, but what if you get accused... and from the types of people you say were in the park... im sorry but my kids wouldnt be allowed there... and if their grandparent were taking them to a place like that, they would be asked not to...

Some folks do not take kindly to being swept by the barrel of a stranger's telephoto lens. Especially if "they were up to a little public drinking and/or dope smoking" or if they were wanted for other offenses. I have the same concerns as XavierBreath as to whether this is akin to poking snakes.

Closed in 3-2-1

I would echo JW's concerns.

Don't take the grandkids where there are such folks.

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I do, however, appreciate the utility of quality optics when interrogating your environment.

I also keep my head up when I take my kids to the park.

Mainsail said:

Judging people by how they look is foolish.

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On the contrary, it is wise and a fine shorthand for when you can not properly interview the thug/thug-look-alike.

Gotta remember: except for genetic/hereditary factors, folks choose their outward appearance. If they choose to dress & act like a thug, that is on them and it is not up to everyone else on the planet to assume/discover that they really are swell guys underneath all the thug-ware.

mekender said:

also sounds like a good way to get harassed for lechery... what happens if one of the dope smokers decides to claim that you were taking pictures of his 5 year old daughter?

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Dope smoker is using the camera as a pretext to do what he was going to do already.

Also, if grandpa has a kiddo of his own, it will be only the ultra-paranoid who think the grandpa taking photos of his grandson is a lech.

Go ahead rainbowbob... If you want to take your grandson to a park that you think is safe to play at, go ahead.

If you want to take pictures of your grandson, go ahead.

If you think you can protect your grandson/family at said park, go ahead.

So what if you sweep someone with the lense? If you don't want to be seen in public,,,,, then don't go to a public place.

but are you prepared to deal with the possibility of having cops take you down to the station to quiz you about why you were taking pictures of people that are not related to you

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Cops have better things to do. And taking pics of someone not related to you isn't illegal.... see paparazzi. Now maybe if it's a kid, then ok. But I doubt Rainbowbob has pics of others kids on his fancy camera.

Maybe sometimes we're too paranoid. I trust Rainbowbob's judgement on this. Have fun with your grandson.

rainbowbob.... enjoy your grandson and your day in the park. Down the road those photos of your grandson, will have value, the background will still be trash...keep your head up, and your clan safe !!!

Jeff White said:

Secondly there is the problem of you sitting there at your bench with an expensive camera. What do you intend to do if the harmless 20-somethings sitting on the bench decide that they can sell your nice camera for enough to buy a couple rocks of crack? Do you want your grandson to see grandpa in a deadly force confrontation?

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Unless they display a weapon, something they wouldn’t need to do if there are two of them, stealing his camera would probably not rise to the level of a deadly threat. In that scenario it would probably not be legal to draw and fire.

This comes accross to me as 'creepy guy in the park spying on strangers'. What if there were other families with little children, or young ladies in sundresses there? Would it be OK to take candid photos of them too? It doesn't matter who it is, nobody wants a stanger glaring at them through a telephoto lens. It seems rude and invasive.

Various responses indicate that a man taking pictures of his grandson is somehow "creepy"... or "provacative"...or just downright "dangerous".

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No, taking pictures of other people, as you clearly stated you did, can be dangerous, creepy or provocative.

I don't think that taking photos of a grandson in a public park will ever rise to the level of creepiness. I think what folks may be homing in on, however, is the use of a telephoto lense to take said photos. Lots of room for mischief there.

<><Peace

I'm with ya too, RBB. Sounds to me like a good idea:

-You don't give up too terribly much awareness by a quick look or photo snap - you can instantly turn and look elsewhere either with or without the camera at any moment.
-You have the following positive effects on potential crime: Deterrent, gathering information about suspected intent to help you predict/avoid crimes, and finally, capturing evidence of "whodunit" should there BE a crime.
-Sounds like you were able to photgraph them without them realizing it - they probably just thought you were photo'ing the kid and not them. I agree it might be provocative if they thought you were photo'ing them, but I doubt they noticed - sounds like you did it on the "down-low".
-As for being questioned by the police - bah - no, I don't think so. It's a public place - one has no expectation of privacy. You can photograph anything you damn well please in public. If they don't like it, they can go home. There's no suspicion of any crime in that.

I say, "Good Job!"

Besides points already well made, there you are scoping out potheads on the far side of the park when a thug on the near side comes up behind you, applies blunt force to your head and goes to pawnshop with nice camera. Find a nicer park. If you're sitting in your car doing camera surveillance always be alert for the banana in the tailpipe too.

good Lord...did you actually SEE them smoking dope? Doesn't sound like it.

If what you described is your idea of a bad neighborhood, then you should move to river park.

I ware hoodies and jeans because they are the most comfortable and utilitarian clothing, and are suitable for all but the hottest months of the year. Most of them are in earth tones (black and brown.) because those are my favorite colors. If you saw me in the park talking to my friends you would probably be thinking that I'm a "gangster" too.

Situational awareness and racism/classism are NOT THE SAME THING. you may say your being diligent and keeping an eye out for "bad guys", but HOW DO YOU KNOW WHAT A "BAD GUT" LOOKS LIKE? Your racist and classist pre-conceptions and biases? WRONG. Behavior and posturing are what you use to determine a persons intentions, NOT clothing, age, or skin color.

Child abductors and molletsers don't dress like gangsters. they are quite often described by their neighbors as people they never imagined would do such a thing.

Iv baby sited for multiple children before, and taken them to parks. You stay close to your kids, and set up a mental perimeter. casually look around often. If anyone enters the comfort zone you have set up, you get between them and the kid. if they ignore you or continue, you warn them. If they still don't listen, you use over-whelming force. You do this for EVERYONE.

This way, you actually take care of the children instead of expending your energies on surveillance of "gangsters" who are minding their own dang business. If they are, you should too. on the OFF chance they are real gangsters, and they see you photographing their meeting in the park, you could end up with a bullet in your head quite easily. Leave them alone and don't be stupid.