Fenty claims semi-auto handguns still illegal

Had he complied lower down, it would STILL be impossible to buy a handgun in DC, since there are no gun stores. This is a zoning issue.

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Madmike - i thought the same thing. However we were both wrong. There are two gunstores in DC. Presently they only sell to LEO's, Feds and security people. I would imagine they placed a few orders last week.

I don't think a zoning ban would pass legal muster. Particularly as it would be a fairly ham-fisted effort to suppress civil rights.

You get to go to prison for that.

It was noted that ..."I don't think a zoning ban would pass legal muster. Particularly as it would be a fairly ham-fisted effort to suppress civil rights."

Ask Mark Koscielski that same question. He was zoned out of business in Minneapolis....and lost in the US. District Court.

The DC semi-auto interpretation goes against the accepted technical description of a machine-gun. It also goes against Scalia's "common use" concept. The DC restriction has zero chance of standing and Fenty will experience yet another humiliation.

Fenty could still find some grounds for restrictions - but this isn't one of them.

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Do DC mayors have term limits? Because from what I can see that Mayor Fenty is doing, he is the best kind of enemy anti-gun mayor that the pro-gun side would want.

He keeps wanting to fight the lawsuits and we get legal victories that we might otherwise not have had before.

Yes, but soon we'll have Mayor's Richard Daley and Gavin Newsom carrying the torch. At that point Fenty loses his usefulness.

Do DC mayors have term limits? Because from what I can see that Mayor Fenty is doing, he is the best kind of enemy anti-gun mayor that the pro-gun side would want.

Not sure... I doubt if he faces term limits. I'd be willing to bet though, that the Brady Bunch, the VPC, the "Million Moms" and all that crowd wishes they'd never heard of him
Marty

Ask Mark Koscielski that same question. He was zoned out of business in Minneapolis....and lost in the US. District Court.

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I'm not quite sure it would be the same thing. Even if there are no gun stores in Minneapolis, you can go out of town to get a pistol somewhere else in-state if you need to. In DC, unless there is some special law I am not aware of, you HAVE to buy your pistol inside the District of Columbia due to federal law. Which means if they prevent gun stores in DC, they effectively deny people their right to own a commonly available firearm, which goes against the court's rulings.

Then there's also the fact that if Mark Koscielski's case was re-tried today he might very well win soley because of Heller.

It would seem to me the most perfect case would be to have people try to register 1-Glock 17, 2-Sig 229 .357Sig, and 3 - M9 that would cover the whole gambit of "common use" the important one being the beretta. If they hold that you have to allow the common military side arm, then it would be alot easier to show that you have to allow us minions to purchase the M16A2, and the M4.

So, is the first "test case" going to be a criminal or civil matter?

Eventually, some DC resident is going to attempt to register a semi-automatic handgun and be denied.

What happens at that point (particularly if the applicant makes 'a fuss' or 'issue' out of it?

Is that person going to be arrested and charged with possession of an illegal handgun?

Personally... I can see a more swift response, reaction and outrage if some poor law abiding citizen is brought in on a bogus charge based on Fentys unreasonable decision.

Whatever his misguided intentions are, it appears he's in for a whole new smackdown.

I suspect one of the 2A groups will file for an injunction within hours of the new ban being announced. It will mostly like be a local civil action.

I hope this board ypdates when the first successful transaction into the hands of a non-leo citizen goes through! I hope all the media covers it, although with proper respect given to the anonymity of the purchaser. If that is possible...

2011

That's when DC gets a new Mayor.

Perhaps by then DC citizens will have seen how Fenty's ridiculous ideas on Gun Control, zone control and others have failed them.

Hopefully by that time, we will have collectively contributed to striking down more of the gun control laws each in turn, with crime rate going down the whole time. And to have had 1 or more rallies like Chicago's on July 11th...

Joe Cool:
The citizens of DC only want a man that looks good in a suit and drives a fancy car, they're not looking for the other normal political qualifications for a leader. Marion Barry's a current city councilman, smoking crack with a hooker only enhanced his popularity with the majority of the city's residents.

Kharn

I'll bet

the DC police carry semi automatic handguns.

This kind of got passed over in post 95. Does anyone know who this ffl belongs to?
That's right, the VPC.

The fight will go on as to "reasonable gun control" laws. The mindset in DC seems to be allowing ownership might be as reasonable as it gets and they will make it difficult to own a firearm just like the City of New York does. The semi- vs revolver thing will get worked out, probably in court. Anyone who thinks that DC will become a "machine gun state" is dreaming.

Which is kind of odd, because the definition of "machine gun" is a federal one and that is not what the federal gov't says a MG is.

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"Jurisdictions can define things in their laws as they see fit, they are not bound to use the same definitions as other jurisdictions (superior or inferior)."

D.C. is federal, no?

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"DC has had 'home rule' of the non-federal portions of the city for many years now (mid 70s).

Congress can exercise a veto of ANY home rule action but rarely (if ever) does."
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There's a reason that Heller was brought in DC, aside from the outright ban: DC is a creature of the Congress. Because ANY DC law can be vetoed by Congress, then any laws on the books there are assumed to be approved by Congress.

WRT full autos, Congress AND President Roosevelt II (Traitor, NY) passed the NFA. That's more than mere Congressional approval, that's US law. As such, even Congress cannot override it. DC is as bound by the definitions in the NFA (or any other part of federal law, for that matter, even those not in any way related to firearms) as the Congress itself is bound.

Put it another way: I'm Jewish. If I define a pig to be the same as a cow, because both have 4 legs and are born live, is it OK for me to have a ham sandwich (assuming that I want to obey the Law as put forth by the ultimate Lawmaker)? The correct answer is "No," because my authority as an individual does not extend to changing the definition of a cow...just as DC's authority (via Congress) does not extend to changing the definition of "machine gun" as specified in the NFA.

Were DC a state, we might have a bit more trouble (until the 2nd is incorporated via the 14th, which is in the works with the suits against SF & Chicago).

Madmike - i thought the same thing. However we were both wrong. There are two gunstores in DC. Presently they only sell to LEO's, Feds and security people. I would imagine they placed a few orders last week.

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Even if DC had NO gunstores, and the city refused to grant zoning permits, etc. for years to come, that wouldn't prevent at least some DC residents from obtaining guns.

"WHO?" you might ask. Any DC resident that was also a resident of another state where they could legally purchase a handgun. I can think of at least 535 people who are much more likely that almost anyone else to be dual residents, people who MUST be residents of other states. Yes, that's right, all of the members of Congress. I'd dearly like to see Mayor Adrian (I'm a Schmuck) Fenty try to have his police arrest a sitting member of Congress for bringing a handgun into DC. Let's find someone on the subcommittee that governs DC, someone who's from a red state and who loves guns, and let that person bring in a legally-acquired handgun to see what'll happen. Better yet, make that gun the functional equivalent of the Beretta M9 that is standard issue for our military.

Here's the site where members of the House subcommitee involved can be found: http://oversight.house.gov/subcommittees.asp

For the Senate: http://hsgac.senate.gov/public/inde...2539-f195-4761-a525-d6a0249e024a&Initials=OGM By the way, Tom Coburn of OK is on this subcommittee, and I know that he's a very staunch supporter of the RKBA.

I though wheelguns where on the way out . . . ?

Ok dont get me wrong six shooters have a special place in my heart but aren't semi autos more popular now a days? Is there any way to get a idea of how many semi autos vs revolvers there are in this country? Because i might be wrong but I figured that theres more semi's out there in this country and that would totally fudge up D.C.'s claim that only in common usage firearms are legal. Even though that is fking illogical. What if I wanted to buy a $10,000.00 Colt New Frontier Storekeeper 7''? Thats a revolver but certainly not in commmon usage does that make it illegal? Could it be made illegal because its not in common usage? Laws should have clear cut definitions not ambiguous phrases that can be misconstrued.

EDIT:
Please try to get rid of those stupid "High Cap Mag" bans here in NY im suffering! I just want to be able to keep pulling the trigger with minimal down time at the range, I dont have all day to be load 5 and 10 round mags!

I was in DC today and I was in the firearms section to see if I, as a non-resident, could get a handgun carry permit and if I could register a handgun in DC.
My recap is here: http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=8032

There are two DC FFLs that are not Josh Sugarmann. The details are in the link.

the DC police carry semi automatic handguns.

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They do. THey are exempted under the DC code. I think retired DC police are as well.

Please try to get rid of those stupid "High Cap Mag" bans here in NY im suffering! I just want to be able to keep pulling the trigger with minimal down time at the range, I dont have all day to be load 5 and 10 round mags!

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I was in DC today and I was in the firearms section to see if I, as a non-resident, could get a handgun carry permit and if I could register a handgun in DC.

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I read your report with great interest.

It got me to thinking about another aspect of the Heller ruling.

Does it perhaps give rise to the argument that non-residents who stay overnight must be allowed a self-defense handgun in their motel, hotel, camper, RV, tent, and/or guest room?

Does it perhaps give rise to the argument that non-residents who stay overnight must be allowed a self-defense handgun in their motel, hotel, camper, RV, tent, and/or guest room?

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Excellent point!


I also think I found another reason for residents being allowed to register is the non-resident business owners of DC. They are already allowed to register a shotgun for use at their business as I read it, so that would also apply to handguns if I am correct.

I particularly love the line from the Sgt,

Basically he said DC could choose to ignore the SC's ruling and never change the laws, but the problem with that is they really could not enforce or prosecute anyone who violates the laws the SC said are moot....so that is why they are amnestying the handguns in DC already (except semi autos) and are not busting anyone with a revolver in their home at the moment.

So, in a nutshell,

"We're going to ignore our own law, but leave it on the books, and we're only going to ignore it selectively......."

It's a shame you couldn't get that on tape, that would be my new phone ring tone......

This has to be one of the few times I would be happy to see an ambulance chaser law firm shopping to file a class action law suit on violation of due process and civil liberties.