Fenty claims semi-auto handguns still illegal

[DrewH]

For the life of me,I can't understand why any descent,hard working person would even want to live in D.C.Can anyone enlighten me?

People could ask the same of Massachusetts, or any other place. Why wouldn't they? Most peoples lives don't revolve around gun ownership. Mine does enough so I do not live in DC, but there are a heck of a lot of nice places to live there. Most of DC is very nice for people that like urban/suburban envoriment, plenty of restuarants and night life and things to do. Kind of expensive, like any other city. Government has actually improved a lot since Barry left as well.

 

[brickeyee]

Mr_Rogers wrote:

For crying out loud - somebody from DC force this issue and let's get this continual whining about Fenty and his rules over with. If half the time and energy spent whining about DC had been directed to actually DOING SOMETHING this problem would be half dealt with.

Talk about sheep - BAH, BAH, BAH.

So you are volunteering to put yourself on the line?
You have an attorney and deep pockets available?
A conviction can have all sorts of nasty consequences.

District of Columbia Official Code 2001 Edition Currentness
Division IV. Criminal Law and Procedure and Prisoners.

Title 22. Criminal Offenses and Penalties. (Refs & Annos)

Subtitle VI. Regulation and Possession of Weapons.

Chapter 45. Weapons and Possession of Weapons. (Refs & Annos)

>>§ 22-4515. Penalties.



Any violation of any provision of this chapter for which no penalty is specifically provided shall be punished by a fine of not more than $1,000 or imprisonment for not more than 1 year, or both.

 

[Mr_Rogers]

Brickeyee,
Go back through other posts. I volunteered to contribute to any fund early on. Due to residence I am not a potential applicant but I support anyone who is.

Since no-one in their right mind is going to do anything that can lead to a conviction there is no personal down side of applying for a "registration" for a semi-auto you do not yet possess. The idea is not to walk into the registration site with an "illegal" semi-auto pistol in your hand, the idea is to ask for a permit so that you can purchase such a firearm. I will sell one of my pistols, at a very good price, to anyone who will go to a "registration" site, give the police the serial number of the pistol, and ask for a permit to import it to DC. The only stipulation is that they must have a clean record to own the firearm and the deal has to be handled legally.

All it needs is someone, anyone, who is legally and morally fit to possess a firearm to simply walk in to a "registration" site and ask to register a typical semi-auto. If the police beat you up or arrest you for that you retire wealthy. What is important is that the applicant gets turned down. Then they politely say thank you, could you please document your refusal?

Then we worry about the lawsuit.

 

[ilbob]

All it needs is someone, anyone, who is legally and morally fit to possess a firearm to simply walk in to a "registration" site and ask to register a typical semi-auto. If the police beat you up or arrest you for that you retire wealthy. What is important is that the applicant gets turned down. Then they politely say thank you, could you please document your refusal?

This is the problem. You can't legally currently have a semi-auto in DC, and you can't legal bring one in from outside of DC, and there are no gun shops in DC to buy one from.

Where are you going to get a SA handgun to register?

You would need a resident of DC who was once a resident somewhere that allowed him to own handguns, and kept a handgun outside of DC, much like many Chicago residents do.

 

[Sam Adams]

You would need a resident of DC who was once a resident somewhere that allowed him to own handguns, and kept a handgun outside of DC, much like many Chicago residents do.

There are at least 535 people who work (part-time, for very high hourly wages) in DC who are REQUIRED to have a residence elsewhere. I suspect that many of them own firearms (even, and perhaps especially, those against OUR right to do so), including semi-auto handguns. I'd LOVE it if one of them walked into the DCPD headquarters (with an unloaded semi and an entourage of aides with video cameras) and said "I'd like to register this weapon."

 

[Mr_Rogers]

ilbob,
You hit the nail on the head right there.

and you can't legal bring one in from outside of DC,

We believe the SC said you can have a semi-auto in DC.

Please tell me what is wrong with this idea - I may be totally off focus.

Someone finds a semi-auto from outside of DC that they would like to own (perfectly legal in most states). They arrange with the seller that the pistol will be held while they apply for "registration". They go to the "registration" office with a description of the pistol, make, model and serial number and ask for a permit to import the pistol into DC.

The registration office has three options. First, issue the permit. Second, say that they cannot issue a permit because you cannot register a semi-auto in DC. Third, say that they cannot make a determination since they must view the firearm. In either of the latter cases the applicant then asks for a written letter of refusal.

 

[DrewH]

I imagine the police would simply say the applicant is barred from importing a pistol from another state, under Federal law, and that would be that.

Maybe try to purchase a pistol from a someone, like a police officer, who is a resident of DC and register it? Does D.C. allow police officers or Federal agents to buy pistols privately?

Might be an avenue to buy any handgun in D.C. before a store is established.

 

[Mr_Rogers]

I imagine the police would simply say the applicant is barred from importing a pistol from another state, under Federal law, and that would be that.

What part of the SC ruling did you not understand?

The "people" have the right to possess commonly used firearms for self-defense. DC was told to comply with the decision. They have moved towards doing so, showing that they grudgingly acknowledge the SC ruling, with the stupid "revolvers plus certain others" rule. The SC said ANY commonly used handgun was acceptable subject to "reasonable" restrictions so it is not a matter of DC objecting to the basis of the SC ruling - just its interpretation. So now DC is, in effect, asking a court to define "commonly used" and "reasonable".

DC is about to go down - and they will take many California rules with them.

All we need is one good man to be refused an import permit by DC police and the fun begins with the ultimate civil rights suit being paid for by DC.

 

[chaim]

They (the antis in DC) sure are trying to push public opinion.

I was listening to a DC public radio station this morning. On one of the local talk shows they were discussing Heller and the ban on semi-autos (being defined by the city as any pistol capable of holding more than 11 rounds). Then one of the guests piped up that "of course" guns that can hold over 11 rounds will be banned because they are already illegal, "guns that hold over 11 rounds aren't semi-autos, they are submachine guns" :banghead: and all the "experts" there agreed

 

[Kharn]

Chaim:
That is the law in DC, any gun that can use a magazine capable of holding over 12 rounds is considered to be a machine gun, and no licenses are issued for MGs by the city.

Kharn

 

[DrewH]

What part of the SC ruling did you not understand?

I understood it just fine, thank you. It just voids selected DC ordinances, it does not magically wipe out all gun laws. Among other things, Scalia commented in his opinion that laws governing the sales of firearms are constituional. Current law forbids private out of state imports of handguns.

As I said, all the DC Metro police have to say is that you can't import that handgun under current Federal law, and I forsee it being difficult overturning that law. They don't even have to get to the semi-auto status.

Now, DC isn't actually a state-maybe someone could enlighten us on whether the Federal ban on private inter-state transfers of handguns applies to DC?

 

[Librarian]

Now, DC isn't actually a state-maybe someone could enlighten us on whether the Federal ban on private inter-state transfers of handguns applies to DC?

18 USC 921 says DC is a "state" for purposes of Federal gun laws:

§ 921. Definitions

(a) As used in this chapter—
(1) The term “person” and the term “whoever” include any individual, corporation, company, association, firm, partnership, society, or joint stock company.
(2) The term “interstate or foreign commerce” includes commerce between any place in a State and any place outside of that State, or within any possession of the United States (not including the Canal Zone) or the District of Columbia, but such term does not include commerce between places within the same State but through any place outside of that State. The term “State” includes the District of Columbia, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico, and the possessions of the United States (not including the Canal Zone).

 

[Novus Collectus]

Brickeyee,
Go back through other posts. I volunteered to contribute to any fund early on. Due to residence I am not a potential applicant but I support anyone who is.

Since no-one in their right mind is going to do anything that can lead to a conviction there is no personal down side of applying for a "registration" for a semi-auto you do not yet possess. The idea is not to walk into the registration site with an "illegal" semi-auto pistol in your hand, the idea is to ask for a permit so that you can purchase such a firearm. I will sell one of my pistols, at a very good price, to anyone who will go to a "registration" site, give the police the serial number of the pistol, and ask for a permit to import it to DC. The only stipulation is that they must have a clean record to own the firearm and the deal has to be handled legally.

All it needs is someone, anyone, who is legally and morally fit to possess a firearm to simply walk in to a "registration" site and ask to register a typical semi-auto. If the police beat you up or arrest you for that you retire wealthy. What is important is that the applicant gets turned down. Then they politely say thank you, could you please document your refusal?

Then we worry about the lawsuit.

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=8032

I saw nowhere where there is a residency requirement for being able to register a firearm in DC. There are shop owners that live outside of DC and if they wanted to have a shotgun registered to protect their shop, they would not be able to if there was a residency requirement.

 

[Mr_Rogers]

OK I'll mail the DC police and ask for a "registration" form.

Anybody know the address to save me searching?

 

[Novus Collectus]

Government of the District of Columbia
Metropolitan Police Department
300 Indiana Avenue, NW
Washington, DC 20001

Firearms Registration Section
Firearms Registration Hotline . . . . . . . . . . . . . (202) 727-9490
Main Number . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .(202) 727-4275
Hours of Operation:
Mon, Tue, Thu, Fri. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 am–3 pm
Wednesday . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 am–6 pm

You can probably get a form mailed to you, but you currently cannot apply by mail and you have to show up in person for fingerprinting. After July 17th the process may change and so may the application.
This is not a downloadable form and this is just a copy, but note the application fee is $13 not the $10 listed on the form:

 

[riverdog]

Download it as an image. Right click and then "Save As" . . .

 

[Novus Collectus]

It is in triplicate with three different colors. You need to fill out their form and a copy will not do.

 

[Coop de Ville]

When I applied for my off duty weapon (G26),

I filed a request with my District Commander. Once it was approved through the channels I went to the Firearms Registration Office at HQ. I had my filled out a form and had a one week background check and fingerprints taken for the FBI. Then went to FedEx and had a couple of passport pictures taken. Paid the application fees and took the form to a gun store. Picked a gun and the dealer filled in the gun info on the form.

Back to the Registration Office so thay could run the S/N to see if it was stolen. Wait for clearance. Pick up gun.

I did this as a sworn member in DC in uniform... Yes, I stood there in uniform while a tech took my prints.

Problem is the stores don't want to do it. They are supposed to approve the sale as lond as DC ok's it. You may transport any legal weapon (legal wherever you're from) through DC. Keep it unloaded in the trunk with paperwork. Just make sure you're passing THROUGH and not staying with someone.

Keep in mind that the police are just like you... sometimes we do have common sense

-Coop

Also, I moved to DC from VA because my now fiance has lived in DC and her child is getting ready to graduate high school. I made a choice to give up my stuff with the agreement that it would be temporary. It has been very hard and has caused a lot of frustration and issues. I am a gun nut. Now when I am with my coworkers and friends it's difficult. They are always buying ARs and AK's... I can't even have my old 870 Marine Mag because it has an 18" barrel.

I can't even buy ammo to with practice for my duty weapon because they look at my DC license and say no. Even with my police ID they still refuse.

Yes it sucks.

 

[Mr_Rogers]

Thanks for the contact info.

I have the rest of my life to play with this. Waiting for the new rules to be published makes sense.

 

[Novus Collectus]

You may transport any legal weapon (legal wherever you're from) through DC. Keep it unloaded in the trunk with paperwork. Just make sure you're passing THROUGH and not staying with someone.

For those reading this that don't know, that is with the federal law for interstate transportation. If a non-resident is going to a recreational shooting event within the District, they must have it unloaded, wrapped and in plain view. (and have proof they are going to such event on them) [7-2502.01 (b)(3)]

However, besides maybe the gun ranges in some government buildings (like the FBI), there really is no place that one can shoot recreationally in DC....yet.

I can't even buy ammo to with practice for my duty weapon because they look at my DC license and say no. Even with my police ID they still refuse.

Yeah, that is ridiculous. There is no law that says a DC resident cannot buy ammo in MD or VA. Not sure about VA, but many of the people that sell ammo in in MD are just ridiculous sometimes.
....maybe this will change with the new situation.

 

[DrewH]

Coop de Ville, curious did you buy your G26 in a shop outside of DC while living in DC?

 

[DrewH]

I saw nowhere where there is a residency requirement for being able to register a firearm in DC. There are shop owners that live outside of DC and if they wanted to have a shotgun registered to protect their shop, they would not be able to if there was a residency requirement.

You are allowed to import longguns between states privately. Even if you are a resident on DC you can buy a shotgun or rifle (subject to whatever "assault" type laws DC has) and bring it in, and thier are procedures for this in fact.

Under federal law, you have to be a resident of the state (and looks like DC is a state for this purposes) to buy a handgun in that state.

Now, if you are a dual resident-that might be another way of getting a semiauto handgun to test the rule. You are free to transfer your owned handgun between states you are residents in, if I recall the law correctly.

 

[Novus Collectus]

I have recieved responses to my FOIA requests about non-residents registration, antique handguns converted to modern handguns and if semi autos were registered to DC residents during the grandfathering period befor the ban took effect in 1976.

• Semi autos were registered to residents of DC in 1976!
• There is no residency requirement to register a firearm in DC, however there has to be a place for storage within the city so that would limit who can register as a non-resident. Basically people that have property in DC or a business. Business owners that are not DC residents have registered firearms in DC in the past. There may be an exception for people with a DC carry permit (yes, there really is a handgun carry permit for DC, but it is "may issue").
• An "antique" like a cap and ball revolver can be legally bought by a DC resident in MD and so can the cartridge conversion cylinder (seperatley). It can be legally converted to a modern handgun, then taken back to DC but the registration process must be followed immediately. But one should wait until after July 17th because they are not registering handguns at this moment. One should also wait to see what the new legislation says.

Also, if you are a visitor to DC and you get a hotel room, you could conceivably bring a firearm with you, register it upon entering and keep it with you for protection in the hotel room or rented property. When leaving DC they would have to tell DC and turn in the firearm registration permit. However, the sergeant said since no one has ever done this before (or even asked about it), this is a big unknown and this is pretty much only speculation as I understood it.
Registration for firearms in DC can take one to two weeks, or maybe longer as I hear, so unless your stay is for a while, it is not worth it at the moment with the current law.

Note, and a very important note: All of this may change in a few days with the passage of a new temporary emergency legislation by the DC council which is expected by July 15th and take effect July 17th.

 

[K-Romulus]

DC Announces rule changes

DC has released some specifics on the new rules:

http://www.dc.gov/mayor/news/release.asp?id=1333&mon=200807

News Release for Immediate Release
July 14, 2008

Mayor Fenty, Council Unveil Firearms Legislation and Regulations

Washington, DC – Mayor Adrian M. Fenty, joined by members of the Council of the District of Columbia, Acting Attorney General Peter J. Nickles and Metropolitan Police Chief Cathy L. Lanier, unveiled legislation and regulations on the registration and storage of handguns for self-defense in the home. The bill and rulemaking are necessary because of the United States Supreme Court’s June 26 ruling in District of Columbia v. Heller, which invalidated the District’s 32-year ban on handgun ownership.

“We continue to take every step we can to minimize handgun violence in the District,” said Mayor Fenty. “We must prevent handguns from falling into the wrong hands or being misused, while allowing District residents to exercise their Second Amendment rights under the Heller ruling.”

The proposed legislation has four main components:

1. Continues to ban handguns in most places but creates an exception for self-defense in the home. The handgun ban remains in effect, except for use in self-defense within the home. Sawed-off shotguns, machine guns and short-barreled rifles are still prohibited.

2. Requires the Metropolitan Police Department to perform ballistic testing on handguns and makes such testing a registration requirement. The Chief of Police will require ballistics tests of any handgun submitted for registration to determine if it is stolen or has been used in a crime. Also, to serve as many residents as possible, the Chief will limit registrations to one handgun per person for the first 90 days after the legislation becomes law.

3. Clarifies the safe-storage and trigger-lock requirements. The legislation modifies existing law to clarify that firearms in the home must be stored unloaded and either disassembled secured with a trigger lock, gun safe, or similar device. An exception is made for a firearm while it is being used against reasonably perceived threat of immediate harm to a person within a registered gun owner’s home. The bill also includes provisions on the transportation of firearms for legal purposes.

4. Clarifies that no carry license is required inside the home. Residents who legally register handguns in the District will not be required to have licenses to carry them inside their own homes.



The legislation is the result of collaboration between the Mayor and Councilmember Phil Mendelson, chair of the Committee on Public Safety and the Judiciary. Mendelson will introduce the “Firearms Control Emergency Act of 2008,”and the Council will act on an emergency basis during the July 15 legislative session.

Separately, Chief Lanier will issue emergency rulemaking on firearms registration and the licensing of firearms dealers, to bring the District into compliance with the Heller ruling. The rulemaking has four main components.

1. Provisions for registering a handgun purchased for self-defense in a District residence.

* A District resident who seeks to register a handgun must obtain an application form from MPD’s Firearms Registration Section and take it to a firearms dealer for assistance in completing it.

* The applicant must submit photos, proof of residency and proof of good vision (such as a driver’s license or doctor’s letter), and pass a written firearms test.

* If the applicant is successful on the test, s(he) must pay registration fees and submit to fingerprinting. MPD will file one set of fingerprints and submit the other to the Federal Bureau of Investigation for analysis and criminal background check.

* MPD will notify the applicant whether all registration requirements are satisfied. At that point, the applicant returns to the Firearms Registration Section to complete the process and receive MPD’s seal on the application.

* The applicant takes his or her completed application to a licensed firearm dealer to take delivery of the pistol. If the dealer is outside the District, the dealer transports the pistol to a licensed dealer in the District to complete the transaction.

* The applicant takes the pistol to the Firearms Registration Section for ballistics testing. When testing is complete, the applicant may retrieve the pistol and take it home.

2. Provisions for registering a handgun legally registered in another jurisdiction, or a handgun possessed in the District but not registered.

* Applicants bringing a firearm from another jurisdiction into the District must transport it immediately to the Firearms Registration Section, or notify the Section that they will do so within 48 hours.

* MPD will allow the registration of previously possessed handguns other than those that qualify as “machine guns” under District law (that is, all automatics and most semiautomatic pistols) for the next six months. During that period, the Office of the Attorney General has established an Amnesty policy not to prosecute anyone for unregistered possession of such a handgun when it is brought to MPD for registration, although those who have committed other crimes with firearms of course remain subject to prosecution.

* Regulations for registering handguns in either of these two scenarios are similar to those for newly-purchased handguns, but do not require the assistance of a licensed firearms dealer.

3. Provisions for transporting firearms legally within the District. When the law allows transporting a firearm legally, the owner must transport it unloaded and securely wrapped in a package, with the package visible in plain view.

4. Provisions for becoming a licensed firearms dealer.
* Firearms dealers must first be licensed by the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms.

* Potential firearms dealers must be eligible to register guns in the District and eligible under federal law to sell them.

* Firearms dealer licenses will be valid for one year.

* Applications for dealer licenses will include a sworn or affirmed statement by the applicant, and may require photographs and fingerprints.

* Firearms dealers must also comply with other District licensing and zoning requirements, such as having a Basic Business License and certificate of occupancy.

The Mayor's page includes links to PDFs of the text of the various regs.

 

[hill billy]

Clarifies the safe-storage and trigger-lock requirements. The legislation modifies existing law to clarify that firearms in the home must be stored unloaded and either disassembled secured with a trigger lock, gun safe, or similar device. An exception is made for a firearm while it is being used against reasonably perceived threat of immediate harm to a person within a registered gun owner’s home. The bill also includes provisions on the transportation of firearms for legal purposes.

Residents who legally register handguns in the District will not be required to have licenses to carry them inside their own homes.

So you can carry the weapon in your home but it must be unloaded/locked or disassembled.? How do those two things jive?