approached in a parking lot...

Good job very good job. nothing to feel bad about.

I had something kinda similar happen to me awhile ago. Guy came out of nowhere asking for a cigarette while I was in a drive through line. I informed him I did not when he continued approaching. I then explained some things about continued approaching and what would happen in a non verbal manner. He left.

Good on you for recognizing that "Hey man, got a cigarette?" is Thugese for, "Hey man, look down at your pockets while I plunge a screwdriver into your neck and take your car."

-Sans Authoritas

I'm liking the quote, "a shark always bumps its prey before attacking" more and more every day.

LOL. True, Rokyudai, and well-said.

-Sans Authoritas

Sounds like he really wasn't up to anything, just socially inept. But that would have set me on edge too. I think you did fine.

But that's the thing, so many people swear up and down you should never draw until it's time to fire. I really have an issue with that line of thought. A firearm's presence in the proper manner can be quite the deterrent.

A firearm's presence in the proper manner can be quite the deterrent.

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Indeed. However, in the off-chance you do draw a gun, even if it is to warn away a possible attacker - it is wise (at least in my opinion) to call the police as soon as the situation allows. The reason being, once you draw a gun, you become the agressor - for better or worse. For all you know, the guy who was approaching you really was checking you out to see if you were a potential target, but now that he's backed off, he's ditched his weapon (if there was one) and called the cops breathlessly explaining how some random psycho in a truck pulled a gun on him in the parking lot.

The first one to call the cops wins. The sooner you get your side of the story out, the better. Even if nothing happened, it's a smart thing to do.

Sounds like he really wasn't up to anything, just socially inept. But that would have set me on edge too. I think you did fine.

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To me that smells strongly of the approach phase of an attack.

Had something similar happen while I was looking over some receipts in my car after coming out of my bank. I had just been exposed to "Situational Awareness 101" so I wasn't really alert, but I had noticed him hanging around before I went in.

After I told him I didn't have anything for him, he kept approaching, so I reached my hand into my belly pack (yes, I kept my .380 in there). He finally got up to my car window and saw my hand in my pack and just said, "Sorry, man," and drifted off.

The bank folks had apparently had an eye on him, because one of them came out to see if everything was all right, which I assured them it was. We chatted for a while and she went back inside, saying she was going to call the police to report the guy.

At no point did I actually expose the firearm, but I tend to disagree with the idea that you don't expose or draw the gun until you are positive you have to shoot. This stance sounds more didactic than practical, to my mind, and dangerous, to boot.

Yeah, yeah, it could escalate the situation, but I'll be betting it won't.

And let's face it, you have gone through a background check and training, and you must be a reasonably upstanding citizen. So who are they going to believe? You? Or the schnook who keeps coming toward you in the well-documented and well-recognized "approach" phase? Not that that's some kind of legal "armor," but it sure would help, in my opinion.

As the header in "The Armed Citizen" used to say, "The mere presence of a firearm, without a shot being fired, has prevented many crimes...." or something like that.

But the "mere presence" of a firearm might not do any good unless the potential antagonist knows that the gun is "merely present."

I realize the significance of unnecessarily "brandishing," but I don't consider it brandishing if you're in a potentially dangerous situation. If it's gone that far, to my mind, you can't consider exposing the firearm as a warning as "brandishing," and if a situation can be de-escalated by using that (to my mind) perfectly legitimate tactic, so be it.

There. I said it, and I ain't takin' it back.

I've never walked up to a stranger in a parking lot to ask for a cigarette. I'm sure I never will.

+1 #9

By the way, the next step after you give the parking lot approacher a cigarette is, "Say, can you give me a lift to..."

All friendly-like and reasonable-sounding, and since you've already radiated a willingness to help...

Last time it happened to me, in Detroit, I responded to the gentleman, "Who, me?! I was just gonna ask you if I could borrow $5.00 for gasoline to get home!" Guy laughed and walked off.

You never know what motivates a person. I'd hate to fire on an innocent person, and I hate even more to be fired upon by some thug. As I see it, you walked away, right?

Posted by kingpin:
Indeed. However, in the off-chance you do draw a gun, even if it is to warn away a possible attacker - it is wise (at least in my opinion) to call the police as soon as the situation allows. The reason being, once you draw a gun, you become the agressor - for better or worse. For all you know, the guy who was approaching you really was checking you out to see if you were a potential target, but now that he's backed off, he's ditched his weapon (if there was one) and called the cops breathlessly explaining how some random psycho in a truck pulled a gun on him in the parking lot. The first one to call the cops wins. The sooner you get your side of the story out, the better. Even if nothing happened, it's a smart thing to do.

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Excellent advice. Call the cops as soon as safely possible.

There are plenty of innocent people who have been charged and convicted of brandishing, because of scenarios similar to what you mentioned.

You did the right thing. These days people are getting too aggressive; even for a cigerette or change.

You told him, "no!" and that should of been the end of it but he was approaching the van to intimidate you in to giving him one any way.

I hope your daughter enjoyed her party and you keep carrying.

Let me restate the scenario so I can be sure I have the facts straight.

You're in a parking lot, in you're vehicle ( in which you could escape.)

You have a homeless man, a weaponless ( you can't prove otherwise at this point) homeless man 20 feet from your vehicle ( that has doors that you could lock while you're driving away.

He didn't threaten you , as a matter of fact you threatened him.

Are you begining to see where a good Prosecuting attorney could go W/ this?

This is one of those times that a good non lethal deterant would really come in handy.

Anytime theres a situation of any caliber and everyone walks away, it's a good thing.

To me that smells strongly of the approach phase of an attack.

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Maybe I have lived in or near a big city too long, but it sure sounds like the approach phase of a sexual pickup. Remember that you nodded at the guy. A nod is as good as a wink, sometimes even better in making someone think you are receptive to them. Be careful of your actions if you do not want unexpected and unintended consequences.

The best thing you could have done would have been to drive away if you were worried that this was some sort of a crime about to happen. Why you did not drive away but engaged the subject in converstation, then apparently cursing him out and being offensive (was that the whole point of saying you spoke "frenchly") is beyond me. There you were thinking you were about to be robbed, mugged, raped, car jacked or whatever, and you stayed there keeping the whole thing possible.

Nope you did not do right, and it should never have come to you drawing a gun and pointing it at the guy - not if you gave us the whole story. Driving away would have been the right thing to have done when the guy was till 20 feet from your van, or when he started closing the gap. This may have been nothing, just a guy seeking a smoke, or it could have been something like the guy looking to rob you - so why hang around for that!

All the best,
Glenn B

Let me restate the scenario so I can be sure I have the facts straight.

You're in a parking lot, in you're vehicle ( in which you could escape.)

You have a homeless man, a weaponless ( you can't prove otherwise at this point) homeless man 20 feet from your vehicle ( that has doors that you could lock while you're driving away.

He didn't threaten you , as a matter of fact you threatened him.

Are you begining to see where a good Prosecuting attorney could go W/ this?

This is one of those times that a good non lethal deterant would really come in handy.

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The point here, I think, is that jahwarrior felt threatened by the guy's approach and demeanor and the fact that he kept coming after being told no and then challenged jahwarrior verbally while reaching into his pocket after being told no again. I think jahwarrior's actions were reasonable given the situation as described.

Also, the fact that the OP was in his vehicle does not necessarily gain him any advantage, particulary with the short distance between them. Any average male could easily cover 20 feet before he could get the window up and the door locked or backed out of the parking space and drove away.

BTW, what kind of "non-lethal deterrent" would you recommend?

He didn't threaten you , as a matter of fact you threatened him.

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I just wanted to point out that the instant the person was told to stay back a comfortable distance and he responded with "or what?," the tone of this conversation just dramatically changed.

I had an intruder on our property a while back that I confronted. He got out of the car quickly and made long fast strides toward me with an angry look on his face. I've no doubt that he was planning to assault me even though he said nothing to indicate it. Body Language gives a lot away in communication.

I told him "Do not come any closer to me." He kept coming. I repeated firmly "Do NOT come any closer!" He was still coming.

Before he could get into striking distance from me, I let the AK that I had shielded on my far side slip forward and into usable position.

All of a sudden, it was an innocent calm conversation.

Predators seek weekness. Schemers fall back to "Plan B" when they meet opposition.

Everyone is just misunderstood when they get caught.

This guy reeked of beer and was about to show off to his girl by teaching me a lesson.


-- John

Did you call the police immediately afterwards ? If the guy had called first saying you pulled a gun on him, it would probably be a bad day for you.

I agree with the "French talk." Somewhere in the Cornered Cat site it is recommended that ladies practice "talking French" in front of a mirror, despite their reluctance to use foul language in general.

The upshot is you have to talk back to them in "their" language to impress them that you are not going to be an easy target.

I am usually of a nost generous nature, but many experiences on the streets of downtown Denver have taught me to look upon such approaches as potentially dangerous, and if someone ignores a repeated order to stay back, I start to go into jaw-jutting mode.

My position is not based on sitting in front of my "suburban" keyboard, but on literally scores of experiences in the past 12 years in a large city in and out of my car.

Radiating "I'm not going to be an easy target" pays off.

OP did good.

http://corneredcat.com/

BTW, what kind of "non-lethal deterrent" would you recommend?

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Bear spray