Are we Policemen?

If a life is not threatened be the best witness you can be.

If there is no threat to your life or anyone around you, I would say the best thing to do is be a good witness, get a tag number if you can. Good description(s).

If someone with a conceal carry permit finds themselves in a situation where there is a robbery in progress should this person use his weapon to stop the robbery? Are we obligated to perform as police because we have a gun?

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We are not obligated art and are not expected to perform as police.
We can only hope to do the right and legal thing and come out on the plus side.Having been there, these dreadful situations are played out entirely by ear,instinct,self preservation and pure luck and circumstance.
May it never happen to you and yours.

I do NOT believe in the use of potentally lethal force for defending money/personal property.

Think about it this way, would you shoot someone for stealing the change between your couch cushions?

If no, at what dollar point IS it allowed?

I say no dollar amount. The only time potentially lethal force should be used is if something irreplacable is on the line, and by that I mean the health and well-being of your fellow human beings.

If I don't have justification to use deadly force, my mouth stays shut and my gun stays concealed. Seems like the best plan to stay out of trouble.

Think about it this way, would you shoot someone for stealing the change between your couch cushions?

If no, at what dollar point IS it allowed?

I say no dollar amount. The only time potentially lethal force should be used is if something irreplacable is on the line, and by that I mean the health and well-being of your fellow human beings.

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In a society based upon property rights, property can very well be worth using lethal force over. Things of great monetary value translate directly to blocks of time in your life that you devoted to work, in order to gather enough money to pay for nice things. You might say peoples' lives are the only thing worth using deadly force over, I say property of great monetary (or sentimental) value is a piece of someone's life, and as such can be worth defending with lethal force.


Would you let someone steal your house if you (and your family) were outside? After all, it's only a house. Would you let someone steal your Corvette, that you worked for 30 years to be able to afford? It may sound materialistic, but these things do represent significant portions of your life. By giving them up without a fight, you're giving up part of your life.

No, we're not policemen.

You have to use your best judgement.

If it is your reasonable belief that the perpetrator does NOT intend to harm anybody, and merely intends to take money and/or property---let him go and try to get a good description, license plate number etc.

If it is your reasonable belief that the perp intends to cause grievous bodily harm to you or anybody else, then you have the right under law to shoot him. If you shoot him, don't discuss the incident with police until you have a lawyer present. For that matter, don't discuss the incident with ANYBODY before you're been questioned by the police with your lawyer present.

No, we are not sworn officers. You open yourself up to penalties and civil liability, along with the very real possibility of having a desperate felon kill you to eliminate a witness.

Eyewitnesses are the worst for info. Try to document the best info you can, every scrap of detail and the direction they headed.

No we are not, we only protect ourselves and others but only if a life is immediately at stake. I would rather have someone who's actual job is to help other people but I will help if needed becuase say a robbery, you NEVER know what it could turn into!

Are we obligated to perform as police because we have a gun?

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NO.

JMHO, but NO! Not unless your life or that of another is in danger.

Stores are insured, the insurance will take care of their losses. Try to get behind cover if possible, and be ready to act, but ONLY if harm to an innocent person is undeniably imminent.

If you have to shoot, make it count. You're not shooting to kill, you're shooting to stop, but make 'em count. And have a lawyer's number in your cellphone, DON'T make ANY kind of statement to ANYBODY until you've contacted your lawyer.

There's a couple of videos going around about not talking to the police, and why. I hope someone can provide a link to them.

If it's not my money, I'm getting the heck out of there.

Tell you what, we've got an ol' boy down here in Pasadena who wishes to heck he never would have done that very thing the night his neighbor's house got robbed. Granted: he wasn't using a CCW, but his shotgun.

Yeah, the criminal case has been dismissed - but at what personal and fiscal cost?

Not to mention the civil cases haven't started...

Davy Crockett had it right: "Be sure you're right, then go ahead."

Q

Think about it this way, would you shoot someone for stealing the change between your couch cushions?

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Yes, but I wouldn't shoot someone for stealing someone else's money.

Until some ones life/ limb is in real danger, let it happen. Basicly what that means is, don't touch it unless shots or they are trying to take some one away.

Not enough information for me to make a descision based on what I think your question is.

But, on how its written, no you are not police you are to protect you and yours.

I think you are meaning to ask "Are you obligated to protect others if you carry a gun?" The answer to that is a personal choice. Would you break up a fight if you are unarmed?

For me, if I was armed and in a position to end a robbery without putting myself at risk I would. For instance, if I'm behind the robber (who is visibly armed) and I can draw unnoticed, the robbery just ended. Otherwise, my gun is to protect me and mine.

Later,
Chrome...

Chrome, what about that other bad guy in the back of the store... you know the one you didn't see and just started spraying every thing with bullets.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm no cop, I've got none of the support the police do and none of the special protection they get when they make a mistake. My gun is to defend my life and the lives of my family and loved ones. When those lives aren't in danger the gun stays in the holster and the rounds in the magazine. Not saying I wouldn't intervene if I saw someone beating a child or woman to death, but not to protect someone else's goods or money.

IMO it's everyone's responsibility to help enforce just laws regardless of whether you have a gun. Obviously it's not a legal obligation and you should never put yourself in undo harm, but if you have the ability to stop or deter a crime then you shouldn't choose to turn a blind eye. If you have a gun that puts you in a position where there are many more crimes you can reasonably address.

Obviously though, and I find it silly to even address the point, you're not about to hold someone at gunpoint if they're breaking into a car; That would escalate the situation. Heck, to ever draw your weapon without firing would put you in unnecessary danger. Of course if they were violently carjacking/mugging/raping someone, then I would think poorly of anyone who didn't consider the feasibility of stopping the situation.

3rdpig said:

if I saw someone beating a child

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Now that I can speak about from experience.

I once left the gym and saw a woman stuffing a child into a car. The child was screaming bloody murder--not just complaining, but shrieking.

I got the license number, flipped open my cell phone, called the law and told them where she was headed.

The police were dispatched immediately.

You can do the right thing and not have to be macho. Sometimes the best things we do is just take notice of Amber Alerts.

i would shoot....with my video cam.


property is worth shooting someone over...but it will depend on what is getting taken..

my property is my lifes work...it takes time, blood, sweat from me to earn money to buy said items, some items i would say yes, some maybe...others (most of) i would say no shoot.

the bbq in the back yard. they can have it is cheep and broken.

my cj7 is not cheep and not broken.

one on my bikes. ok they can have it....if they can pedal it away....easer to "run them down" then most anything else.

carting away a lot of my tools in the back of there truck??



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but the answer is we are not cops.

the police are not required to protect you..so why should anybody else be requied to protect you.

but we are required to protect our selves, our family, our friends, our property.


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That would be about the most stupid thing you could do. 99.99% of the time the theif just wants the money and to run out the door. If you pull a gun that you may well change that to a gun battle and you best be well prepared to have to take a life. Would think though if it was a crazy type waving and pointing the gun at everyone well then he would be dead before he hit the linolium first time he was looking in another direction and his gun was not in a persons face.

I'm not a cop. I don't want to be a cop. I don't carry a gun so I can do citizen arrests. I carry a gun to defend myself and my family from grave danger. My gun is to help me get to a safe location where I can all the real police so they can do the job they are paid and trained to do.

There is no legal obligation for a CHL person to get involved with a Bad Guy.

Personal judgement and "horse sense" determine whether or not somebody does act in defense of a third party. IMO, that's an individual thought-process. Individual moral view of the world at large. It's not for me to tell anybody else, "Ya oughta..."

We can all dream up scenarios where we would or wouldn't act, but those are better posted in S&T than here.

Art