IL Residents: CCW not likely....

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Just read the stories or watch the news about off duty cops in Chicago being robbed and then shooting their attacker and averting being a victim. Everyone else would've been a victim.

Here's my take: if a city wants to ban guns, fine. But I say ban their police from carrying guns as well. Due to their logic, a ban would prevent a criminal from obtaining a gun. And if criminals don't have guns, the police wouldn't need them either... Let's see how far that goes.
 
I am just angry that Chicago and Cook county seem to dominate the state. It does seem that their is a lot of interest in CCW downstate but little upstate.

Hopefully more people will start to get active.
 
There is interest in it upstate. Obviously not as much as it is in non-Cook county but there is interest. I'm surprised that there isn't more interest in it in Chicago with all the robberies, rapes and muggings that go on in there. Perfect example are the rapes that happen when young women leave the el train stops at night. How can calling the police do them any good then?

Face it, this is a state where corruption is accepted. On the subject of Bobby Steele wanting to give her previous spot to her son (blatant nepotism), people called into the news station and said things along the lines of, "Oh, it's Chicago." "It's always been like that here." Or it's something like, "It happens on every level."

Okay, so if something isn't right and the status quo has always been wrong, that means it's okay to keep things wrong? What a crock of crap...
 
In order for CCW to get any traction in Chicagoland you have to be able to overcome the Tribune editorial board, the SunTimes editorial board, the Daley machine and years of anti gun propaganda/programming from all of the above.

This is a case where it is going to have to be a grass roots effort if there ever was one. We have no allies in government or media.
 
So, it’s not a shock that the reaction of a lot of people was wanting to strap a .38 or .45 on and find the scum that was creating this mayhem.

The problem is that most of us are only as cool as Dirty Harry in the film clip that is playing in our heads.
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Didn't Dirty Harry carry a .44 Magnum? :neener:

So men talk big about guns and fail to deliver, what's new? All men boast and brag, be it about cars, their sex life, whatever. But the author assumes all CCWers are male... oops... lots of women carry too.

I also think that many of you out in Anti-Land shouldn't lose hope. I think gun CULTURE is growing in America. Everyone just needs to continue bringing friends, family, etc. to the range and teach 'em to shoot. Seriously. The more people you make pro-gun, or at least non-anti (I know, double negative), the more accepting people will be of ideas like nation-wide ccw or federal pre-emption of state gun-bans.
 
In the last few years I've been wondering more and more how much of the total disinterest in CCW laws in Chicago has to do with the fact that so many people just carry illegally there and see no need for a law.

Frankly, I wonder how many white folks in Chicago like the fact that in many neighborhoods, if the stories are true, they can carry with a wink and a nod but the black folks and the Messikins get their guns confiscated or worse.
The amount of racism in Chicago is surprising if you're not from there.
 
I would wonder how we can get more interest. I found out that one of my coworkers is Pro-CCW. We were talking about something and I mentioned guns and she came right out and said... "I think everyone should be able to carry a gun for defense."

Its nice to hear from the younger generation. She is only 18 but she will be a voter. I wont lie but I do know a few people who carry regardless. I refuse because it could end up ruining my entire future. I want to get into LE, possibly teaching, and maybe even law.

If I could carry legally then I would without a doubt. Its just rediculous that people have to fight for the government to simply recognize their rights. I thought that our founding fathers took care of that for us?

Sadly it feels hopeless for those of us here in Illinois.
 
CCW is a pipe dream in Ill. It's that simple. We should be focusing on keeping our semi-auto rifles. If they manage to take those away what will be next. Hi-capacity shotguns, Hi-cap mags. You name it. If they take a inch you can be sure they will try to take the whole mile.:uhoh:
 
In the last few years I've been wondering more and more how much of the total disinterest in CCW laws in Chicago has to do with the fact that so many people just carry illegally there and see no need for a law.
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That is in fact precisely a large part of the situation. I know ALL KINDS of people in Chicago with unregistered handguns, which they sometimes carry. Bizarrely, many of these same people will tell you how they support the gun control laws which make it illegal for them to do what they do, and under which they could go to prison for doing no more than protecting themselves from robbery, rape or murder.

Why such cognitive dissonence? One reason is the fact that except for the brief term of Mayor Harold Washington, the law, and particularly the Chicago PD have NEVER even PRETENDED to work in the interests of the average working Black person. And the Washington administration was at least as corrupt as any that preceded it. It merely somewhat reversed the polarity of the endemic racial bias of the system that has characterized Chicago politics since the 19th century.

Frankly, I wonder how many white folks in Chicago like the fact that in many neighborhoods, if the stories are true, they can carry with a wink and a nod but the black folks and the Messikins get their guns confiscated or worse.
The amount of racism in Chicago is surprising if you're not from there.
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I was born in Chicago and lived there until I went to college and entered the military. Chicago is BAR NONE, the most racist place I have EVER been, anywhere on this planet. Here in the Cleveland area, there are racists, but except for a tiny handful of "organized" White supremacists [who are apparently in total chaos these days], it isn't the guiding principle in their lives. Chicago is like NYC in "Ghostbusters II", only instead of ectoplasm flowing underneath the city, it's racial, ethnic and religious hatred. And it's pretty much across the board. Whites hate Blacks. Blacks hate Jews. Mexicans hate Puerto Ricans. Poles hate Lithuanians. Mainland Italians hate Sicilians. It reminds me of that episode of Star Trek where the guy who's black on one side and white on the other has dedicated his entire life [for millions of years] to destroying the guy who's white on one side and black on the other.

Any place that attracts Frank Collin AND Louis Farrakhan has to have something fundamentally morally corrupt at its core.
 
I personally find much more racism in small towns and rural areas. I've never been to the south, but I expect it's there too. In larger cities, people interact with minorities on a day to day basis and it no longer draws anyone's attention. A difference of races doesn't stand out much more than a difference of haircuts. In small or rural towns, this isn't the case and minorities stand out as an oddity. Depending on your race, people will think you don't speak english, or generally try to lump you into one of the races they know about from TV. Doesn't matter if you're puerto rican, north indian, or one of the myriad a other possibilities, they'll either think you're Black or Mexican. It's not a conscious sort of racism, just something that comes from unfamiliarity.
 
I personally find much more racism in small towns and rural areas. I've never been to the south, but I expect it's there too. In larger cities, people interact with minorities on a day to day basis and it no longer draws anyone's attention. A difference of races doesn't stand out much more than a difference of haircuts. In small or rural towns, this isn't the case and minorities stand out as an oddity. Depending on your race, people will think you don't speak english, or generally try to lump you into one of the races they know about from TV. Doesn't matter if you're puerto rican, north indian, or one of the myriad a other possibilities, they'll either think you're Black or Mexican. It's not a conscious sort of racism, just something that comes from unfamiliarity.
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Where do you live? Have you ever lived in Chicago for an extended period of time? Chicago is like no other place I've ever been, both in terms of its endemic racism and its sheer ENTHUSIASM for corruption.

I've lived in rural areas in central Missouri and in the South at Ft. Benning and Ft. Knox. NEVER in all my time in those areas have I EVER seen racism that could hold a candle to what I saw growing up in Chicago. It's quite literally a "black and white" difference. It crosses all political boundaries. White Democrats hate Black Democrats who hate Jewish Democrats.

The perfect example is the relationship between Blacks and the Irish in Chicago. In the 19th century they were both despised and discriminated against. Instead of the obvious solution of banding together, they allowed divide and conquer tactics to be used against them, and they ended up in what was basically a razor fight over a dung heap. Chicago rules say you don't fight the guy who's oppressing you. Instead, you find somebody else whom YOU can oppress. It's very much like the Japanese, Korean POW camp guards and American POWs during WWII. WHATEVER you do, you don't want to be at the bottom, no matter WHAT you have to do to keep yourself from being there.

Want to understand Chicago? Look at Iraq. In both places it's not as important to make your own life better as it is to make somebody else's you don't like, worse.
 
This article is older but has interesting points on CCW effects: http://www.claytoncramer.com/shall-issue.html

I've seen posted somewhere that when Fl. enacted it's CCW reform armed assaults on citizens plummetted but those on tourists rose because they would be known to not be packing.

I remember when all this happened though at the time I didn't realize why it was. Seemed like there was a weekly, or more, murder of a tourist. Guards were posted at specially designated and marked rest stops along highways. Cities put up signs to guide tourists to likely destinations and away from "bad areas." A law was passed so that rental cars can no longer be identified as such.

There are also studies that show that "hot" (residents are home) burglaries are significantly higher in countries (such as England) that have strict gun ownership laws. Whereas in the US, BG's prefer to burglar unoccupied dwellings.

BG's aren't afraid of an unarmed populace. This applies both at home and on the road.
 
Very interesting read so far. Being from the SouthSide of Chicago and now living in the North Central region of IL, I have two different perspectives on this.

My family has several LEs as close friends. Whenever I've discussed the subject of CCW with them, they show concern that the average citizen is probably more likely to shoot themselves in the foot than a BG. What they don't like, is the fact that there is no CCW law that would allow at least retired LE to carry a weapon. They feel that there is a large enough group of retired LE that could help fight crime that would truly benefit from a CCW law. I can't say I completely disagree with that belief.

The second, is that here in the North Central region, there's really not much of a political push or hee-haw about what we should and shouldn't be able to do. Lots of clay shooters and bird hunters who just want the ability to get some rounds in or put a duck on the table now and then. Really not a big interested in CCW or even handguns for that matter. So, whether a CCW was ever enacted or not really doesn't matter to them one way or another.

In regards to Chicago, it is a state within a state. Whoever made the statement about the racism I think is over dramatizing it. I'm white, from the Southside, and have several black and hispanic friends. It's not as extreme as is pictured. There are a lot of areas in Chicago that as one race or another you would probably be wise to avoid, but that doesn't go for the whole city. In fact, on the North Side, there is very much the typical, "They're people too" mantra. Also, the whole CCW in Chicago is really part two of what needs to be done. As it stands right now, you can't even own/possess a handgun within the city limits. If there is EVER going to be a CCW law passed, we need to start one step at a time. Because knowing Chicago and the Daley machine, they would allow CCW but then arrest everyone who had a pistol inside the city limits. That kind of corruption is abound!
 
In regards to Chicago, it is a state within a state. Whoever made the statement about the racism I think is over dramatizing it.
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I was born on the south side and live in the suburbs now.

Have to agree the racism in Chicago has been overstated.

Much has changed in the last 30 years. The way Deanimator makes it sound you would think the races are in open warfare. That is just not the case.

Racism in Chicago, yes. To the extent as was described? Maybe years ago but not so much now.
 
isp2605 said:
Where exactly do these LEO friends of yours live that they haven't heard of LEOSA? The LEOSA has been federal law since July 2004.
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-...=f:publ277.108
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isp2605, I'm assuming that it is related specifically to IL law:

On July 22, 2004, President George W. Bush signed H.R. 218, the “Law Enforcement Officers’ Safety Act,” into law. The Act, now Public Law 108-277, went into effect immediately. The bill exempts qualified active and retired law enforcement officers from local and state prohibitions on the carrying of concealed firearms.

Pursuant to this Act, the Illinois State Police offers qualification shoots to ISP retirees who qualify under the Act. ISP retirees wishing to qualify will be required to successfully complete the ISP secondary weapon qualification course currently used for active officers. The additional following guidelines will apply:

Bring all weapons and associated equipment (ie., holster, magazines) with which you intend to qualify (limit 2 weapons)
Bring 30 rounds of ammo for the weapon for qualification. (Factory ammo only, no reloads)
Your handgun must pass inspection by range personnel, be a minimum of .380 caliber and have a minimum five round capacity.
All retirees will be provided a handout detailing a private citizen's use of force in making an arrest and use of deadly force.
A minimum score of 23 hits must be obtained on the ISP secondary weapon 30 round qualification course.
You will be required to sign a waiver and release form before qualifying on the range.
There will be a five ($5) dollar qualification fee.
Due to time constraints, no practice will be conducted. Retirees should be prepared to qualify upon arrival.
In case of a failure to qualify, retirees will be allowed one additional attempt immediately following their scheduled shoot.

To schedule a qualification shoot, please contact your nearest ISP District at the numbers provided below.

YOU MUST CALL IN ADVANCE AND SCHEDULE YOUR SHOOT
The Academy will not provide cleaning supplies. You must furnish your own cleaning supplies.

You must bring your retirement ID and FOID card with you.

Any questions call ISP Governmental Affairs 217/ 782-0132
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Is such a test required for ALL CCW applicants?

I will ask my Dad to clarify with this particular person and see if I misunderstood or not.
 
I must have missed the blatant racism when I was floating through Chicago in the mid 80's. Oh well.
Anyone who wants to escape the machine and come to a Free State, Arizona has plenty of room out here for gun people. Gotta counterbalance all those Kalirefugees who want to bring thier laws with them.


They finally got one passed - a smoking ban in public, and in bars. We will fight that one.

CCW has no impact on crime? After passing thier CCW law, Florida's homicide rate fell from 36% above the national average, to 4% below the national average, and remians below the national average today. That from a Florida Department of Justice 1998 study.
The serious crime rate in Texas fell 50% faster than the national average after a CCW law was passed in 1995.
Cramer and Kopel did a study in 1994, titled, "Shall Issue: the New Wave in Concealed Handgun Permit Laws", and they found that in places where citizens were allowed to carry concealed, murder rates went down 8%, rapes fell 5%, andaggravated assaults fell 7%.
The FBI reports in 2004 Uniform Crime Report that states that don't allow CCW have violent crime rates 11% higher than the national average.
All data above came from GunFacts4.1. Sounds to me that CCW has a measurable, definitive positive impact on crime.
 
I don't know. My neighbour was black as they get, and so was his daughter. Of course what was so in my little piece of Chicago in 1980, is probably no longer the case.
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Where did you live? I'm betting on the North side.
 
Is such a test required for ALL CCW applicants?
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No.
LEOSA covers all active and retired LEOs in the US. LEOSA is a federal law. Each state or agency sets their own minimum qualification standards for retirees. The part you quoted is the minimum state qualification standard for IL LEOs. IL agencies can implement more strigent qualification standards but they have to at least meet the minimum. www.rpocc.com
If you have friends who are LEOs who think there is no CCW for retired LEOs then they need to read LEOSA. I know in IL all law enforcement agencies received notice of the federal law a few days before it was signed. No doubt there are still come LEOs who haven't heard of LEOSA as, with anything, there is always the 10% who never get the message.
 
RE: LEOSA

At least "Da Mayor" is consistent. Last I heard there's an on-going brou-ha-ha between the FOP and the city proving/providing retired CPD officers with being "ceritified" and providing the necessary time, training and documents to CCW under LEOSA.

Not sure where it stands now, and really don't care, as LEAA swore up and down that once LEOSA got passed they'd help with CCW for the rest of us untermenschen. Once LEOSA passed, they've since gone silent on the issue, except for when Daley told them to go pound sand as he wasn't going to let anyone CCW in *his* city.

SShooter_Z have your LEO buds check with their FOP lodge or the LEAA :)barf: )about LEOSA, they should be able to help if they can't get any info/help from their department.
 
isp2605 and scout26, thank you for taking the time to respond.

I will definitely look into it and see what I can find.

I know one officer friend of my Dad's said there was something preventing it from happening and that it would definitely be a benefit having the retirees packed and loaded.

I'll see what I can dig up. Thanks! :)
 
Say ARMOREDMAN don't be telling anyone to come to AZ. Getting to many now here who come from anti guns states wanting to make AZ like where they left.
 
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