What's a good deer gun for youth?

I set up a friends 13 year old daughter with a 30-06 with a Pacmyter decelartor recoil pad and a muzzle break. She has had no problems and is quite proficent. That said a 243 works well but calls for a bit more skill in shot placement.

kb2zya said:

Soo does a 30-30 have less kick than a 243? I need a light recoil gun for my wife for deer? looking at rem 770 in 243 or mossberg 30-30 lever?

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Here is a chart I found:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

I put the increase in the 30-30 recoil about ~28% higher than the .243

How about a .243 in a single shot youth sized H&R Pardner?

Hi HuntnDad


Using the regular single-shot H&R Handi-Rifle (not the youth version) for all three calibers and using the recoil calculator at

http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp

It turns out that the .....


.357 with full power 125gr. loads has a recoil of 2.2 ft./lbs.


.243 with a full power 95gr. load has a recoil of 9.6 ft./lbs.


30/30 using Remington's "managed recoil" loads is at 7.2 ft./lbs.


Speaking candidly - if someone was seriously bothered by the 7.2 ft./lbs. of the 30/30 "managed recoil" load they probably shouldn't be taking shots at game until they grow a bit more - no matter how much they beg or how much Daddy wants to take them hunting.

Good luck !

"Soo does a 30-30 have less kick than a 243? I need a light recoil gun for my wife for deer? looking at rem 770 in 243 or mossberg 30-30 lever?



Tom"


Tom,
I can't say the 243 kicks more or less than the .30-30, but the .30-30 is a very mild round. I fire 170 gr corelokts out of my 7.5 gun and I wouldn't know it went off if it weren't for the very light bang and the movement of the front sight. I think I calculated it at somewhere around 7-8 ft lbs of kick at about 8 fps. I can fire that thing all day long and the only thing to get tired is my elbows (I sight in from the prone). The 243 is a good round, but I would go with which ever is more available in your area (here either are common but the .30-30 was free).

shawnee,
Looks like our numbers are about the same for the kick. I do think the speed of the recoil will also make a difference. The faster the kick, the more it feels like a punch and less like a shove (which people may tolerate better). What speed is the recoil happening at? The .30-30 should be about 7-8 fps IF I remember right.

H&R single-shots

Speaking for myself (6'4"; 300 lbs), I don't care for these single-shot rifles. To me, they kick harder than a comparable-sized bolt action gun. While the price is good, if I were buying my kid a new gun, I would stay away from them.

YMMV.

I like the Savage rifles for their value - accuracy at a good price. Used Marlin .30-30s seem to be running in the $300 range. While there's nothing wrong with Gool Ol' Thuddy-Thuddy, a .243 has greater potential for variety of uses - small varmints through deer - and at greater ranges.

Q

Hi Scythefwd...

I don't know how to calculate the speed of the recoil. Using pure amateur Logic (and my Ouigi Board) it seems to me that the .243 couldn't be too different from the 30/30.

Shawnee and others speak very wisely on this issue. Stock fit and recoil pad most important (and ergo friendliness of sighting system for the kid). As for caliber, that .30-30 Win managed recoil load is golden!

I started my boys off with H&R .243s and they became proficient very quickly, but both took their 1st deer with a 7400 30-06 (Oldest was 11, youngest was 9), and both have stayed with the .308, 30-06, or .7mm mag (my father in laws, their uncles or my rifles) until I bought them their own 30-06s. (Neither have ever seemed to be bothered by recoil).

Had I to do it again I would have started both with Marlin 336s in 30-30. I have shot both them and the H&R .243 and to be honest 150gr winchester 30-30s seem to have less recoil than the 110s from the .243. Of course neither are bad, and as most new hunters should not be shooting at 300+ yards the 30-30 is really plenty of gun anyway.

Mossberg

I am trying to answer the same question about what gun for a young hunter, and boiled it down to being between the H&R handi rifles or something else. Well, the something else for me is possibly a Mossberg in .243 that sell for a whopping $20 more than the handirifle around here new at Academy.

I am really hoping to find a used .243 after season this year of a Remington for not too much more. Just my assessment.

My 7 year old nephew took a buck this weekend with a .243 Harrington and Richardson Handi-rifle at around 80 yards. Works great for him and his 8 year old brother. It's small and fits both of them well, and is plenty accurate, and they handle the recoil fine. The buck went down when he was hit, got up and ran a few yards, and went down for the count. We recovered the bullet under the skin on the opposite side he was hit on, and it had nearly turned inside out, and had expanded very nicely.

LKB3rd - which ammo/bullet?

I think the H&R/NEF's are the best option for a young inexperienced hunter for one very important reason.

The safety or lack thereof rather. These rifles use an internal transfer bar system and can be carried hammer down which leaves one less thing for a youngster to have to master in the excitemt of the moment, and of course once fired they're 100% safe again with no additional manupilation requ'd. All you need do is teach the youngun that the hammer NEVER gets pulled back till you're about to shoot

I'm adamant that a levergun with a hammer block or half cock saftey are the absolute worst platform to start a new shooter on. I never will forget the AD I had when I was 12 from trying to put my winchester's "saftey" on

I used an online recoil calculator to get it. It has got to be a function of acceleration vs weight (how fast the pressure builds) as a ratio to the weight of the rifle (how much of it). Or, that would seem to be right to me, but I don't claim to be the brightest hammer in the bag.

I never will forget the AD I had when I was 12 from trying to put my winchester's "saftey" on

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How do you have an AD from trying to put on a cross-bolt safety?

How do you have an AD from trying to put on a cross-bolt safety?

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a real winchester doesn't have a crossbolt safety.

With the crossbolt guns the problem is that the hammer will still drop in the heat of the moment if the safety is left engaged. Resulting in even more confusion in what's likely already a flustered youth

Remington 7 youth in 260 Remington, add a recoil pad as they get older,(just for lengh, not recoil) and you have a gun for many seasons under all kinds of hunting conditions,

Chuck

I guess the handi rifle would be ok and I agree that .30-30 is the right round. But my guess is that by the time they outgrow the short stock, they'll be clamoring for other rifles anyway

LKB3rd - which ammo/bullet?

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It was a 100 grain Remington jacketed soft point.

Welcome to THR. About a year ago, I bought a LNIB H&R single-shot in .30-30 Win for my 14-year-old daughter. I paid $125.00 for it. They really are great little rifles. I cut my own teeth on a single-shot, then stepped up to a model 94.

Depending on the extent to which $$ is an issue, I would strongly suggest that you look into T/C's G2 Contender and Encore. They are both simply tremendous firearms, and the interchangable barrels are all gauranteed to fire 1 MOA at 100 yards.

another vote for the Mossberg Bantam .243

I bought my 10 year old a Walnut stocked Mossberg 100ATR "Bantam" in .243.

He practices at the range with Winchester 55 grains, very little recoil, then steps up to the 100 gr for the hunts.

CZ 527 Carbine in 7.62 x 39

Try the CZ 527 carbine in 7.62 x 39. Equivalent to the 30-30 round. I have several deer rifles but prefer using my CZ in the woods.

http://cz-usa.com/product_detail.php?id=15

or if you can find a Ruger 77/44


both are bolt action, light, magazine fed which in my opinion is safer when unloading and cheap ammo is available for practice. Also the round doesn't travel as far if there is a missed shot

NEF handi rifle in .243 or 7mm-08. cant go wrong and they can shoot them both forever if they want.