What's so great about AR-15's anyway?

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Texas Rifleman / Coal Dragger / yesitsloaded,

You aren't aware that shorter barrels are more inaccurate than longer ones? Where have you been?

Spend too much time reading FPS/Energy stats than simple physics? Maybe it hasn't crossed your desk yet that lighter projectiles slow down faster than heavier ones after muzzle exit BECAUSE the velocity is less?

I suppose you also take out deer @ 1000 yards with your 16 inch heavy barreled .17 HMR? :p

It cracks me up everytime I read someone typing that a 16 inch barrel is "so accurate"...
 
Spend too much time reading FPS/Energy stats than simple physics? Maybe it hasn't crossed your desk yet that lighter projectiles slow down faster than heavier ones after muzzle exit BECAUSE the velocity is less?
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The fact that they slow down faster just makes them drop more at shorter ranges. That does not equal less accurate. Not as flat shooting, but not less accurate.
 
Spend too much time reading FPS/Energy stats than simple physics? Maybe it hasn't crossed your desk yet that lighter projectiles slow down faster than heavier ones after muzzle exit BECAUSE the velocity is less?
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That means the velocity is less and the effective range of the bullet is therefore less.

That does not mean that shorter barrels are less accurate, it means they make the firearm have a shorter effective range.

Do you understand what the word "accurate" means?
 
This thread is nonsensical. The original poster lists a plethora of reasons why many people own AR's, and then disregards them and asks why we own AR's simply because he can't hunt deer with it in his state! It is just trollbait.
 
You aren't aware that shorter barrels are more inaccurate than longer ones? Where have you been?
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Perhaps they were just quoting Chuck Hawkes?

Barrel length, accuracy and ballistics

It is worth mentioning that a longer barrel is not inherently more accurate than a short barrel. Intrinsic accuracy is a matter of quality, not length. However, a longer barrel is generally better in terms of practical accuracy, because a longer and therefore heavier barrel (within reason) is easier to hold relatively steady from unsupported positions; thus it is easier to shoot a long barreled rifle accurately.

The length of the rifle barrel has a direct influence on the velocity obtained from the cartridge for which it is chambered. Ballistically, for centerfire calibers, longer is usually better. However, for carrying, handling and maneuvering in close quarters (like thick brush or getting in and out of vehicles), shorter is usually better. Some sort of compromise must therefore be reached.
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http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_barrel.htm

I am no expert you see...
 
The very best, most useful, thing I do with my AR15 is to shoot 3gun and Multigun matches. I've used the AK and FAL platforms and by far the AR is a much better choice for these events. There's a reason the AR platform is the gun of choice of nearly all 3 gunners.

If you don't plan to compete then, perhaps, there are better, more useful, choices for you. For me; I'll stick my AR until I find a better, more cost effective, gun for the events I shoot.
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So there is a sport for them? I knew 3 gun shooters used FALs, but you aren't restricted to "heavy metal" (30 cal and up) on three-gun? Good to know.

yesit'sloaded, good pics man.

OP:
Quote:
You can't hunt with a .223/5.56x45 in most states (I'm pretty sure its still Missouri and Kansas prohibited, and everywhere else... I think Tennessee reversed it's ban but I'm not sure). Seeing as hunting would be the primary use of any rifle if you are NOT Law-Enforcement or Military, then the AR-15 is out of the question here.
Quote:
Am I missing something here? Is there a sport or animal that the .223 takes down that's legal? I'm not saying their bad rifles, anyone knows that a AR-15 is more than capable of hitting a golf-ball at 100 yards, weighing a mere 5 pounds, fitting in tight spaces, or using more accessories than the rifle itself is worth. But in terms of sheer utility, what's it's niche
Okay a quick review of what we have learned here tonight is in order:

1. There are other uses for rifles other than hunting and combat.

2. The .223/5.56 is legal for hunting and can be used to take medium sized game humanely as was explained to you four months ago (although you already knew that then as well)

3. Lot of people like AR's (I think you knew that too )

4. Posting things that you already know to be untrue gets angry responses.

5. Learning is fun!

Have a nice night!
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1. Been covered, but I was talking primary use earlier. Don't get pissy.
2. I did not already know that. I HEARD about it. It's not the same as KNOWING. Please read my post in regards to your post on page 3. :fire:
3. Knew that already.
4. I didn't know! PLEASE READ MY POSTS SINCE PAGE 1 PEOPLE! Come one already! I HAVE been making responses! They are there! I know I'm not crazy and imagining I've responded because I've had two people just check it! :eek:
5. Damn right, would be a lot better if the fanboys and wackos and every other type of insecure madman with a anger problem.

Will do! :D

M&PVolk said:
This thread is nonsensical. The original poster lists a plethora of reasons why many people own AR's, and then disregards them and asks why we own AR's simply because he can't hunt deer with it in his state! It is just trollbait.
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I asked more than that. There has also been a whole three pages proceeding your post, go ahead a read a little of that. :cuss:

I'm really starting to hate AR-15's based on the security issues some of you guys have... if owning one is going to turn me into a whiny, angry person because someone asks a few questions then maybe I'll just stick isolate myself from them :mad: . Which is a shame, guys like yesit'sloaded and HGNHTR have been nothing but cool and informative :) .
 
Seeing as hunting would be the primary use of any rifle if you are NOT Law-Enforcement or Military, then the AR-15 is out of the question here.
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LMAO ... you are obviously not a gun person.

Your biggest mistake is to look for a legitimizing application for a possession. Very few possessions really have such applications. What's the practical use of a hummel figurine, a Dali print, or an ultralight aircraft? There usually isn't one. Those things exist, people get enjoyment from that existence, and creating enjoyment is a positive good.

An AR is fine for anything a rifle is good for. That's perfectly obvious to me...and I don't even own one at the moment. I do have a couple of .223 rifles and they work fine for everything I've used them for. I'm sure an AR would be at least as good.

I have owned rifles for as long as I've been able to own anything, legally speaking, and here's a shocker for you: I have never, not once, hunted. Not on my radar, not important to me, not something that influences my buy decisions at all.

You'd understand that if you enjoyed shooting in itself instead of as a means to an end.
 
Ever Shoot One???

If not, you should.

6 weeks ago I bought my first AR. Now I have 2 223 and a Colt 9mm

Funnest guns I own.
 
Trying to explain these things to oldFred appears to be a waste of time he is not smart enough to comprehend what is being explained to him.

He also seems to believe that a bullet slows down more because it is too light to maintain speed. So oldFred is also too f'n stupid to understand ballistic coefficients and their effect on trajectory and retained velocity. A 500gr bullet with a BC of .234 with a MV of 2500fps will be slower at 500yds than a 120gr bullet with a BC of .502 starting at the same velocity. In fact you could start off the 120gr .502BC bullet a couple of hundred feet per second slower, and it would still have more velocity at longer distances.
 
Texas Rifleman / Coal Dragger / yesitsloaded,

You aren't aware that shorter barrels are more inaccurate than longer ones? Where have you been?

Spend too much time reading FPS/Energy stats than simple physics? Maybe it hasn't crossed your desk yet that lighter projectiles slow down faster than heavier ones after muzzle exit BECAUSE the velocity is less?

I suppose you also take out deer @ 1000 yards with your 16 inch heavy barreled .17 HMR?

It cracks me up everytime I read someone typing that a 16 inch barrel is "so accurate"...
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Perhaps one of the most uninformed things I have read in some time. There are a lot of things about a barrel that can help or hurt accuracy, it just so happens you are pointing out the only thing that has zero influence. Ironic, I know. BTW, a fun study in this is the 1 7/8" barreled Smith and Wesson J-Frame revolver in .38 special...fully capable and proven out to 100 yards.
 
2. I did not already know that. I HEARD about it. It's not the same as KNOWING. Please read my post in regards to your post on page 3.

4. I didn't know! PLEASE READ MY POSTS SINCE PAGE 1 PEOPLE! Come one already! I HAVE been making responses! They are there! I know I'm not crazy and imagining I've responded because I've had two people just check it!
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This is why I said to go educate (rather than embarrass) yourself. But hey, your call.
 
BTW, a fun study in this is the 1 7/8" barreled Smith and Wesson J-Frame revolver in .38 special...fully capable and proven out to 100 yards.
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I actually have confirmed hits on a human sized steel target at 170 yards with one.:D
ETA: To be perfectly fair, it is one of my primary carry gun and I've shot it alot. I was also aiming a few feet above the target to compensate for the drop.
 
yesit'sloaded: "The fact that they slow down faster just makes them drop more at shorter ranges. That does not equal less accurate. Not as flat shooting, but not less accurate."

Don't forget the beneficial effect of a longer sight radius, using iron sights, or the steadying effect of more barrel mass further downrange, reducing bore wobble.
 
This is why I said to go educate (rather than embarrass) yourself. But hey, your call.
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First off, good job. You've corrected your English. Second off, THIS ****ING THREAD WAS HERE TO EDUCATE ME. But you guys seem hell bent on making me mad.

God! If one thing is clear to me now more so than anything else I've learned, its that asking about AR-15's is some kind of taboo you couldn't make biblical!

LMAO ... you are obviously not a gun person.
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I own three. Each with a purpose. Which the AR-15 CAN have, given what's been said here. Read up to page 1 for Godsake.

Your biggest mistake is to look for a legitimizing application for a possession. Very few possessions really have such applications. What's the practical use of a hummel figurine, a Dali print, or an ultralight aircraft? There usually isn't one. Those things exist, people get enjoyment from that existence, and creating enjoyment is a positive good.
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I know the ultra-light aircraft moves faster and saves on jet-fuel. Hence why the Military can afford to use UAV's.

An AR is fine for anything a rifle is good for. That's perfectly obvious to me...and I don't even own one at the moment. I do have a couple of .223 rifles and they work fine for everything I've used them for. I'm sure an AR would be at least as good.
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That's what we've been talking about, welcome to page 4! Well some of us have been talking about, others seem like they need to defend their rifles to the death more than just answer a few simple questions.

I have owned rifles for as long as I've been able to own anything, legally speaking, and here's a shocker for you: I have never, not once, hunted. Not on my radar, not important to me, not something that influences my buy decisions at all.
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Then your missing out. Deer are fun, tasty, and a good project. I guess you shoot three-gun?
You'd understand that if you enjoyed shooting in itself instead of as a means to an end.
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Enjoying shooting: I do that. It's what the .22lr is for. But a means to an end does not always mean just fun, but utility. Hence the post.
 
Ha Ha Hammer who is the pissy one:neener: time to go back under your bridge and think up another stupid tread.:scrutiny::evil:
 
a longer barrel is generally better in terms of practical accuracy,
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I think Coal Dragger doesn't get this part of Chucks statement or never understood it to begin with. Therefore he is sniperbait with his "short tool".

:neener:
 
God! If one thing is clear to me now more so than anything else I've learned, its that asking about AR-15's is some kind of taboo you couldn't make biblical!
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Reread post 76. Perception is reality. There are tons of threads on ARs and they don't get ugly. This one did and it had a lot to do with the way you asked the question and starting with false premises.
 
Paladin Hammer wrote:
I asked more than that. There has also been a whole three pages proceeding your post, go ahead a read a little of that.

I'm really starting to hate AR-15's based on the security issues some of you guys have... if owning one is going to turn me into a whiny, angry person because someone asks a few questions then maybe I'll just stick isolate myself from them . Which is a shame, guys like yesit'sloaded and HGNHTR have been nothing but cool and informative .
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Actually, I read every post before replying and somewhat wish I had that 10 minutes of my life back...

None of us are insecure or whining about your questions, the problem is your question is disingenuous. You won't accept modularity, accuracy, varmint hunting, self-defense or target shooting as a legitimate reason to own one. You have already heard about SD uses and deer hunting uses and still continue to pontificate on how it is overpriced and what other options are better for those uses.

Your question is based on a flawed premise and you are repeating it only for some strange need to have other justify your opinion that an AR is a worthless civilian gun. If this were not the case, you would have been satisfied with the responses on page one alone.
 
I shot one and wasn't really impressed. I didn't like the feel, the noise, the cost of ammo, or the price of the gun. I've never once thought "i need one of those" or "that'd be a good buy". That's just my opinion.

But hey, I bought a Hi-point 9mm carbine and I love it. Some people like something, some people don't.
 
Let me cut through the people acting like children and address each one of your concerns.

I know there are plenty of AR-15 fanatics here. But no matter how much I read about accuracy, customization, light-weight, size, and range, I can't figure out what on earth the AR-15 is GOOD for.

You can't hunt with a .223/5.56x45 in most states (I'm pretty sure its still Missouri and Kansas prohibited, and everywhere else... I think Tennessee reversed it's ban but I'm not sure). Seeing as hunting would be the primary use of any rifle if you are NOT Law-Enforcement or Military, then the AR-15 is out of the question here.

You're caught up on large game hunting. P-dogs, coyotes, rabbits, hogs, and other animals can be hunted even when large game can't. Not to mention many ARs are sold in .308 (a very nice deer and Elk caliber as it replicates the performance of the WW2 era 30-06) and .243 (.308 case necked down to .243, an excellent deer round and it can be loaded with light bullets for varmints).

I thought about target shooting. In this area AR-15's make sense, you can stand up and hit an inch group most AR-15's. But really, $800+ dollars to shoot paper all day long? Don't get me wrong, I go outside and plink with a .22lr pistol for hours on end, but when my family bought that .22 it was in the higher $100 dollar area, not $800.

ARs can be had for $600, and ammo used to be extremely inexpensive as rifle calibers go.

So then defense? .223 or military 5.56x45 will not just punch holes in intruders, it will go straight through them under 50 yards and punch a hole in your wall, in anyone behind that wall, and if it's short ranged enough it could continue into a neighbor's house. Unless you've got a 100 yard long home, I can't figure out how it's a safe defense weapon, and any more effective than say, a Remington 870?

Anything that can kill a human reliably will possibly pass through the body. You also are not guaranteed a hit with every round. Nevertheless this is a recognized issue and is the reason why excellent home defense rounds are made for .308 and .223, namely Hornady's TAP as well as other forms of frangible ammo.

I was also told that many AR-15 owners use them for shooting Coyote's. But in Missouri, where I've found plenty of AR-15 owners, there isn't exactly a whole lot of distance between you and any Coyote. Most hunting land is either wooded or has enough hills on it to limit ranges under 200 yards. So then, why the 400 yard pushing .223/5.56?

The same reason most deer are shot with guns loaded with calibers capable of 500+ yard shots.

Am I missing something here? Is there a sport or animal that the .223 takes down that's legal? I'm not saying their bad rifles,

I named them up top

anyone knows that a AR-15 is more than capable of hitting a golf-ball at 100 yards, weighing a mere 5 pounds, fitting in tight spaces, or using more accessories than the rifle itself is worth. But in terms of sheer utility, what's it's niche?

It is a light, easy to operate, reliable weapon that can be used on most game in most states in it's original caliber, and can be had in just about any caliber up to 50bmg. Calibers can be swapped as well by merely removing two pins and exchanging the upper receiver with one of a different caliber and switching magazines. It also serves as a great self defense firearm.
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Don't worry about me oldFRed, I have long barreled rifles too.

There is a difference between practical accuracy and mechanical accuracy. You still would be well served to look into modern ballistics, you might find out some disturbing things about smaller bullets with high ballistic coefficients.
 
FYI, .223 is perfectly legal for deer in Missouri. I have several friends who use it as their primary deer round out of either their AR or their Mini-14 right here in the show me state. Aside from that, you can get AR patterned rifles in calibers other than just .223/5.56.

I myself just completed building one in 6.8 SPC for use as my primary woods deer rifle. I have .270 win and .308 bolt guns too which are great for beanfield type setups with 300-400 yard shots, but are terrible for walking through the woods and taking a deer that may be on the move. Hence, the 6.8 SPC AR that I built.

Besides, AR's are fun as all get out and they are the erector sets/legos of the firearm world. Just think about it, your buddy comes over to see your gun collection, sees your AR "Hey where'd you get that?!", response- "what, that old thing, I built it myself...." :cool:
 
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