Campus Carry and Faculty Flight

geophysicishooter · Apr 28, 2009

I had the pleasure this past weekend of being a judge at a UIL Regional debate tourney (former high school debater, I am). Saturday morning's edition of the local fishwrap (newspaper) above-the-fold story was a piece regarding the bill in the Texas Legislature allowing concealed carry on the campuses of Tx universities and colleges. So I bring it up in talking to the tourney director over coffee that morning before the day's activities got started.

Well, as you might have guessed, he was NOT in favor of the idea of "students carrying guns on campus". I answered his protestations with the standard "only CHL holders are legally allowed to carry under the legislation" and the arguement that forcing people to go unarmed is unjust, especially when it's been demonstrated, tragically and repeatedly, that homicidal maniacs don't obey "gun free zone" signs.

"Well, I think it would detract from the educational environment if students are carrying guns", "If the Texas Legislature passes this bill, I'll quit teaching in Texas or any other state that allows concealed carry" and "Utah and Colorado State have seen a tremendous flight of faculty since allowing concealed carry on campus" were the things he said in defending his opposition to concealed carry on campus..

It being extremely difficult to convince a staunch anti that guns aren't, in fact, sentient, autonomous beings capable of wanton killing on their own and time before morning rounds drawing short, I left him to his predjudice deciding that discretion was the better part of valour.

I just wonder how what he was saying about faculty leaving college campuses (campi?? like octopus/octopi) where concealed carry on campus is permitted..

has anyone heard of or know of any stats backing up that assertion??

and either way, is that good or bad for Texas Universities and colleges to loose faculty who fear law-abiding students, faculty and staff who practice their right to bear arms?

SpecialKalltheway · Apr 28, 2009

I have never heard anything about a teacher quitting CSU because of the policy change(it was already legal here, just against school policy) that allowed students to carry on campus. The policy change was before I got here though. I will do some digging, but I would love you to ask that guy for proof. If you find anything that backs that statement up I would like to know.

P.S. it is great to carry on campus everyday

(just making the other college student jealous)

WardenWolf · Apr 28, 2009

You know what? If it runs these liberal socialist teachers out of education, where they can't indoctrinate our young men and women anymore, I'm all for it!

desidog · Apr 28, 2009

"Hey, man, I'm wasted. It's 3AM. Whatdoya wanna do thats cool? (burp)"

"Hic....my roommate has a pistol, and won't be using it at this hour....hicup."

Yup....i see no potential problems.

SpecialKalltheway · Apr 28, 2009

"and either way, is that good or bad for Texas Universities and colleges to loose faculty who fear law-abiding students, faculty and staff who practice their right to bear arms?"

I find it is usually the liberal minded teachers that push their social agendas on their classes. So, I would say this is a good thing.

"If the Texas Legislature passes this bill, I'll quit teaching in Texas or any other state that allows concealed carry"

you should have got this in writing

with the bad economy I'd love to see someone that anti quit over his misguided principles.

SpecialKalltheway · Apr 28, 2009

desidog "Hey, man, I'm wasted. It's 3AM. Whatdoya wanna do thats cool? (burp)"

"Hic....my roommate has a pistol, and won't be using it at this hour....hicup."

Yup....i see no potential problems.

Well it's nice to know that we share some common ground with the anti's. We both have ignorant people.

There are 11 schools in this country that allow CCW permit holders to carry on campus. I assume you didn't know this since you think that people will drink and shoot people on campus.

FYI it is illegal to be intoxicated and in possession of a firearm regardless if you have a CCW or not. So, the scenario you are suggesting is illegal in its own. Are you saying by making one thing legal we then make it possible for another crime to be broken? If the person is willing to go through the trouble of getting his permit which involves telling the cops he has a gun pretty much and getting finger printed then he is going to go out and break the law????

Yup I like to inform the cops of me first before I break the law in other ways

sacp81170a · Apr 28, 2009

"Hey, man, I'm wasted. It's 3AM. Whatdoya wanna do thats cool? (burp)"

"Hic....my roommate has a pistol, and won't be using it at this hour....hicup."

Yup....i see no potential problems.

What a lovely straw man you've constructed there. Fools will be fools on or off campus. Are you saying that everyone who has a CHL should be denied carry because one of their roommates might do something bad? That dog won't hunt.

desidog · Apr 28, 2009

I went to Harvard, where i observed many smart kids do stupid things. I am not against concealed carry on campus, but i understand that many faculty members who have frequent interaction with students realize that many students are immature. I can understand their reservations.

I'm not concerned with the legality of holding a gun while drunk, i'm concerned about stupid accidents and mistakes happening more than righteous cases of self defense. This in turn will hurt the 2A cause.

WardenWolf · Apr 28, 2009

And yet this immature behavior tends to curb greatly by the time they turn 21. People tend to go wild during freshmen and sophomore years, getting their first taste of freedom. By junior year, they're pretty well settled in.

larry_minn · Apr 28, 2009

The only folks UNDER 21 who can legally carry are POLICE OFFICERS... This will NOT CHANGE THAT... It will only be last yr (or two) for traditional students that they can carry.

indoorsoccerfrea · Apr 28, 2009

i am 19 years old and i can legally carry in many states. the argument that students will go crazy and shoot people while drunk is an extreme example. i am an advocate for allowing licensed students to carry. license holders statistically have a much lower crime rate than non-license holders. that alone speaks in our favor.

desidog · Apr 28, 2009

Yeah, i was under the impression that you can carry in TX from 18 on.

Thanks SpecialKalltheway and sacp81170a for taking the bait...arguing gun rights on a gun site is like preaching to the choir.

CapnMac · Apr 28, 2009

Well, let's see, college students-
A group that generally ignores
drinking age laws
driving under influence laws
downloading laws
visitation rules

But they are complying with carry laws? Really?

Gee perfesser, the sweet darlin's aren't copying your old tests, either.

Maybe anyone that unaware ought to go educate in a nice safe place, like downtown new Haven.

indoorsoccerfrea · Apr 28, 2009

don't generalize. many people break laws all the time. just because the group you hear about most are the ones who ARE breaking the laws does not mean that ALL are breaking the laws. there are several states allow college carry, and they have not had drunken shootings. believe me, we would have heard about it. it irritates me when people make broad statements that college students all ignore laws. i am a college student. i can legally carry off campus, why should i have to sacrifice my right to self-defense because of mr. fraternity who destroys his liver every night?

ArmedBear · Apr 28, 2009

Oh yeah, they'll all leave.

Because SO many public institutions are on one massive hiring spree right now.

Because the other states with large systems, like California and New York are SO flush with money.

I mean, I don't care if they quit. But where would they go?

6_gunner · Apr 28, 2009

I'm quite comfortable with the idea of college professors fleeing from pro-gun states. I'll be looking for a teaching position in a few years and I will be happy to take one of their places.

GEM · Apr 28, 2009

The academic job market is not that hot (like many others). I doubt tenured folks are fleeing and that is BS if truly stated.

The Chronicle of Higher Ed - the business paper of record for universities has never mentioned such. There was one letter to the editor years ago by some fool saying he wouldn't send his kid to a carry campus but I haven't seen any other measures mentioned.

If there was a big move, it would have been reported. Being a TX academic, I think it is BS.

Now, most of the college presidents and faculty senates seem to oppose the bill. But fleeing - haven't seen it proposed.

KBintheSLC · Apr 28, 2009

I just wonder how what he was saying about faculty leaving college campuses (campi?? like octopus/octopi) where concealed carry on campus is permitted..

has anyone heard of or know of any stats backing up that assertion??

Its yet another made up "factoid" by another scared, emotional anti. There has been no such issue here in Utah. I was attending the University of Utah at the time the State decided to block the University from banning guns. There were some hysterical, and blasphemous predictions flying through the air from some of the staff... none of which have happened as of yet. As for a mass exodus of disgruntled faculty, that didn't happen either. Most of them sucked it up and got over it.

I hear this argument often from the pacifists... "we don't want to do it because it makes people uncomfortable"... in the mean time we put our young people in hypothetical shackles for any psycho perp to exploit. I say, bring on the discomfort.

RP88 · Apr 28, 2009

how is a CONCEALED weapon going to detract from the learning environment?

The only things that detract from my learning environment are bad teachers, people who talk and act disruptive during lecture, and attractive college girls in tight jeans or short skirts. :neener:

panzer426 · Apr 28, 2009

Anyone responsible enough to hold a concealed carry license should be responsible enough to not allow said weapon to fall into the hands of stupid people such as those described by desidog.

To carry a chl/ccw you have to be 21 or active military, in Texas, I thought that was all 50 states. Most 21 and up students do not live on campus. Most men and women able to get a chl would keep it out of the hands of irresponsible people (ie, anyone but themselves unless supervised by themselves and in proper location such as gun range) and probably not even inform those irresponsible students that they even have a gun.

The bills to allow concealed carry on campus are to allow those who already passed the tests to hold a concealed carry license, they have proven themselves to be at the very least deserving of a chance at being trusted on campus. If these bills were intended to allow any/all students in any college around the country to carry a gun, that would be a bad thing.

geophysicishooter · Apr 28, 2009

yeah the good lookin girls in their sundresses is quite distracting.. but I'll take it..

The "I'm leaving if they allow concealed carry on campus" attitude didn't really make sense to me either. I just can't see up and quitting a job just because people are doing what people have been doing everywhere else you do your business..

guess what? every bank, grocery store,coffee shop, etc you've been going to, someone's been carrying a concealed weapon.. and guess what else?? they; didn't shoot and kill you..

You'd think a professor of debate would recognise a non-unique arguement when he makes one..

Vern Humphrey · Apr 28, 2009

"If the Texas Legislature passes this bill, I'll quit teaching in Texas or any other state that allows concealed carry" and "Utah and Colorado State have seen a tremendous flight of faculty since allowing concealed carry on campus" were the things he said in defending his opposition to concealed carry on campus..

I would advise him to exercise caution upon departure to avoid being impacted posteriorily by the protuberance on the portal.

CentralTexas · Apr 28, 2009

Desidog

You wrote
"Hey, man, I'm wasted. It's 3AM. Whatdoya wanna do thats cool? (burp)"

"Hic....my roommate has a pistol, and won't be using it at this hour....hicup."

Yup....i see no potential problems."

Are you kidding me, that's as bad as the racial; white bubba stereotypes used as reasosn by the left to deny our Second Amendment rights. With friends like that....

BhmBill · Apr 28, 2009

"Hey, man, I'm wasted. It's 3AM. Whatdoya wanna do thats cool? (burp)"

"Hic....my roommate has a pistol, and won't be using it at this hour....hicup."

Yup....i see no potential problems.

LOL. *wipes tears from eyes*

We got some comedians on this site.

indoorsoccerfrea · Apr 28, 2009

"Hey, man, I'm wasted. It's 3AM. Whatdoya wanna do thats cool? (burp)"

"Hic....my roommate has a pistol, and won't be using it at this hour....hicup."

Yup....i see no potential problems.

plus if a student can carry on campus...why wouldn't he be carrying it? and even if he left it in the room I would hope he had it secured. I would have absolutely no problem with colleges requiring a certain type of safe, as I would lock it up anyways.

Campus Carry and Faculty Flight

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