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Campus Carry and Faculty Flight

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by geophysicishooter, Apr 28, 2009.

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  1. geophysicishooter

    geophysicishooter Member

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    I had the pleasure this past weekend of being a judge at a UIL Regional debate tourney (former high school debater, I am). Saturday morning's edition of the local fishwrap (newspaper) above-the-fold story was a piece regarding the bill in the Texas Legislature allowing concealed carry on the campuses of Tx universities and colleges. So I bring it up in talking to the tourney director over coffee that morning before the day's activities got started.

    Well, as you might have guessed, he was NOT in favor of the idea of "students carrying guns on campus". I answered his protestations with the standard "only CHL holders are legally allowed to carry under the legislation" and the arguement that forcing people to go unarmed is unjust, especially when it's been demonstrated, tragically and repeatedly, that homicidal maniacs don't obey "gun free zone" signs.

    "Well, I think it would detract from the educational environment if students are carrying guns", "If the Texas Legislature passes this bill, I'll quit teaching in Texas or any other state that allows concealed carry" and "Utah and Colorado State have seen a tremendous flight of faculty since allowing concealed carry on campus" were the things he said in defending his opposition to concealed carry on campus..

    It being extremely difficult to convince a staunch anti that guns aren't, in fact, sentient, autonomous beings capable of wanton killing on their own and time before morning rounds drawing short, I left him to his predjudice deciding that discretion was the better part of valour.

    I just wonder how what he was saying about faculty leaving college campuses (campi?? like octopus/octopi) where concealed carry on campus is permitted..

    has anyone heard of or know of any stats backing up that assertion??

    and either way, is that good or bad for Texas Universities and colleges to loose faculty who fear law-abiding students, faculty and staff who practice their right to bear arms?
     
  2. SpecialKalltheway

    SpecialKalltheway Member

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    I have never heard anything about a teacher quitting CSU because of the policy change(it was already legal here, just against school policy) that allowed students to carry on campus. The policy change was before I got here though. I will do some digging, but I would love you to ask that guy for proof. If you find anything that backs that statement up I would like to know.

    P.S. it is great to carry on campus everyday :D (just making the other college student jealous)
     
  3. WardenWolf

    WardenWolf member

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    You know what? If it runs these liberal socialist teachers out of education, where they can't indoctrinate our young men and women anymore, I'm all for it!
     
  4. desidog

    desidog Member

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    "Hey, man, I'm wasted. It's 3AM. Whatdoya wanna do thats cool? (burp)"

    "Hic....my roommate has a pistol, and won't be using it at this hour....hicup."

    Yup....i see no potential problems.
     
  5. SpecialKalltheway

    SpecialKalltheway Member

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    "and either way, is that good or bad for Texas Universities and colleges to loose faculty who fear law-abiding students, faculty and staff who practice their right to bear arms?"

    I find it is usually the liberal minded teachers that push their social agendas on their classes. So, I would say this is a good thing.

    "If the Texas Legislature passes this bill, I'll quit teaching in Texas or any other state that allows concealed carry"

    you should have got this in writing :D
    with the bad economy I'd love to see someone that anti quit over his misguided principles.
     
  6. SpecialKalltheway

    SpecialKalltheway Member

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    Well it's nice to know that we share some common ground with the anti's. We both have ignorant people. :rolleyes:

    There are 11 schools in this country that allow CCW permit holders to carry on campus. I assume you didn't know this since you think that people will drink and shoot people on campus.

    FYI it is illegal to be intoxicated and in possession of a firearm regardless if you have a CCW or not. So, the scenario you are suggesting is illegal in its own. Are you saying by making one thing legal we then make it possible for another crime to be broken? If the person is willing to go through the trouble of getting his permit which involves telling the cops he has a gun pretty much and getting finger printed then he is going to go out and break the law????

    Yup I like to inform the cops of me first before I break the law in other ways :rolleyes:
     
  7. sacp81170a

    sacp81170a Member

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    What a lovely straw man you've constructed there. Fools will be fools on or off campus. Are you saying that everyone who has a CHL should be denied carry because one of their roommates might do something bad? That dog won't hunt.
     
  8. desidog

    desidog Member

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    I went to Harvard, where i observed many smart kids do stupid things. I am not against concealed carry on campus, but i understand that many faculty members who have frequent interaction with students realize that many students are immature. I can understand their reservations.

    I'm not concerned with the legality of holding a gun while drunk, i'm concerned about stupid accidents and mistakes happening more than righteous cases of self defense. This in turn will hurt the 2A cause.
     
  9. WardenWolf

    WardenWolf member

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    And yet this immature behavior tends to curb greatly by the time they turn 21. People tend to go wild during freshmen and sophomore years, getting their first taste of freedom. By junior year, they're pretty well settled in.
     
  10. larry_minn

    larry_minn Member

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    The only folks UNDER 21 who can legally carry are POLICE OFFICERS... This will NOT CHANGE THAT... It will only be last yr (or two) for traditional students that they can carry.
     
  11. indoorsoccerfrea

    indoorsoccerfrea Member

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    i am 19 years old and i can legally carry in many states. the argument that students will go crazy and shoot people while drunk is an extreme example. i am an advocate for allowing licensed students to carry. license holders statistically have a much lower crime rate than non-license holders. that alone speaks in our favor.
     
  12. desidog

    desidog Member

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    Yeah, i was under the impression that you can carry in TX from 18 on.

    Thanks SpecialKalltheway and sacp81170a for taking the bait...arguing gun rights on a gun site is like preaching to the choir.
     
  13. CapnMac

    CapnMac Member

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    Well, let's see, college students-
    A group that generally ignores
    drinking age laws
    driving under influence laws
    downloading laws
    visitation rules

    But they are complying with carry laws? Really?

    Gee perfesser, the sweet darlin's aren't copying your old tests, either.

    Maybe anyone that unaware ought to go educate in a nice safe place, like downtown new Haven.
     
  14. indoorsoccerfrea

    indoorsoccerfrea Member

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    don't generalize. many people break laws all the time. just because the group you hear about most are the ones who ARE breaking the laws does not mean that ALL are breaking the laws. there are several states allow college carry, and they have not had drunken shootings. believe me, we would have heard about it. it irritates me when people make broad statements that college students all ignore laws. i am a college student. i can legally carry off campus, why should i have to sacrifice my right to self-defense because of mr. fraternity who destroys his liver every night?
     
  15. ArmedBear

    ArmedBear Member

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    Oh yeah, they'll all leave.

    Because SO many public institutions are on one massive hiring spree right now.

    Because the other states with large systems, like California and New York are SO flush with money.

    I mean, I don't care if they quit. But where would they go?
     
  16. 6_gunner

    6_gunner Member

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    I'm quite comfortable with the idea of college professors fleeing from pro-gun states. I'll be looking for a teaching position in a few years and I will be happy to take one of their places.
     
  17. GEM

    GEM Member

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    The academic job market is not that hot (like many others). I doubt tenured folks are fleeing and that is BS if truly stated.

    The Chronicle of Higher Ed - the business paper of record for universities has never mentioned such. There was one letter to the editor years ago by some fool saying he wouldn't send his kid to a carry campus but I haven't seen any other measures mentioned.

    If there was a big move, it would have been reported. Being a TX academic, I think it is BS.

    Now, most of the college presidents and faculty senates seem to oppose the bill. But fleeing - haven't seen it proposed.
     
  18. KBintheSLC

    KBintheSLC Member

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    Its yet another made up "factoid" by another scared, emotional anti. There has been no such issue here in Utah. I was attending the University of Utah at the time the State decided to block the University from banning guns. There were some hysterical, and blasphemous predictions flying through the air from some of the staff... none of which have happened as of yet. As for a mass exodus of disgruntled faculty, that didn't happen either. Most of them sucked it up and got over it.

    I hear this argument often from the pacifists... "we don't want to do it because it makes people uncomfortable"... in the mean time we put our young people in hypothetical shackles for any psycho perp to exploit. I say, bring on the discomfort.
     
  19. RP88

    RP88 Member

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    how is a CONCEALED weapon going to detract from the learning environment?

    The only things that detract from my learning environment are bad teachers, people who talk and act disruptive during lecture, and attractive college girls in tight jeans or short skirts. :neener:
     
  20. panzer426

    panzer426 Member

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    Anyone responsible enough to hold a concealed carry license should be responsible enough to not allow said weapon to fall into the hands of stupid people such as those described by desidog.

    To carry a chl/ccw you have to be 21 or active military, in Texas, I thought that was all 50 states. Most 21 and up students do not live on campus. Most men and women able to get a chl would keep it out of the hands of irresponsible people (ie, anyone but themselves unless supervised by themselves and in proper location such as gun range) and probably not even inform those irresponsible students that they even have a gun.

    The bills to allow concealed carry on campus are to allow those who already passed the tests to hold a concealed carry license, they have proven themselves to be at the very least deserving of a chance at being trusted on campus. If these bills were intended to allow any/all students in any college around the country to carry a gun, that would be a bad thing.
     
  21. geophysicishooter

    geophysicishooter Member

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    yeah the good lookin girls in their sundresses is quite distracting.. but I'll take it..

    The "I'm leaving if they allow concealed carry on campus" attitude didn't really make sense to me either. I just can't see up and quitting a job just because people are doing what people have been doing everywhere else you do your business..

    guess what? every bank, grocery store,coffee shop, etc you've been going to, someone's been carrying a concealed weapon.. and guess what else?? they; didn't shoot and kill you..

    You'd think a professor of debate would recognise a non-unique arguement when he makes one..
     
  22. Vern Humphrey

    Vern Humphrey Member

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    I would advise him to exercise caution upon departure to avoid being impacted posteriorily by the protuberance on the portal.
     
  23. CentralTexas

    CentralTexas Member

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    Desidog

    You wrote
    "Hey, man, I'm wasted. It's 3AM. Whatdoya wanna do thats cool? (burp)"

    "Hic....my roommate has a pistol, and won't be using it at this hour....hicup."

    Yup....i see no potential problems."

    Are you kidding me, that's as bad as the racial; white bubba stereotypes used as reasosn by the left to deny our Second Amendment rights. With friends like that....
     
  24. BhmBill

    BhmBill Member

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    LOL. *wipes tears from eyes*

    We got some comedians on this site.
     
  25. indoorsoccerfrea

    indoorsoccerfrea Member

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    plus if a student can carry on campus...why wouldn't he be carrying it? and even if he left it in the room I would hope he had it secured. I would have absolutely no problem with colleges requiring a certain type of safe, as I would lock it up anyways.
     
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