"You should get a lower"

He's saying that you should just get an AR15 lower receiver (the part that's legally considered to be the firearm) and then add the rest of the parts later. If you're assuming there will be a ban on these firearms sometime in the future, then this isn't necessarily a foolproof strategy. For example, during the 94-04 AWB, a lower that wasn't assembled into a complete firearm with enough evil features to qualify as an assault weapon did not qualify under the grandfather clausr and could not be assembled into an assault weapon. Of course, there's no guarantee that any future ban would be similar to the Old AWB. For that matter, there's no guarantee that such a ban would include a grandfather clause, period.

This isn't to say that building an AR is a bad idea though. You'll better understand how the gun operates and you'll be able to start out with exactly the parts you want.

I agree with the gunshop, everyone should have a lower, I have 2 stripped now (have complete ar-15s also). What is posted about previous AWB above is correct, but there was no way to tell if a person completed a lower into a rifle before hand. Those people that had lowers had manufactor SNs that were pre-ban and and the transfers to them that were preban, people were still finishing them after the ban and not a single one of them got caught, rest of the parts were freely available online, at shows, in gun stores. Lowers have came down a lot in price now and are easy to find now. The other beneift is you can buy the parts to complete it and end up with a rifle just like you want, or a standard type rifle that is cheaper than a off the shelf rifle. The reasons this is possible is b/c of manufactor markup, the (~13-18%?) firearms tax that is built into a rifle instead of just a cheap lower, and warranty cost. You can get on the 6month backorder list for a kit from Delton, Model 1, J&T and get a lower now, and have a complete $625-675 AR-15 down the road.

I don't see the advantage in buying a lower at this point. I have a few extras about, and can't get the parts to build on them.

Can't find parts

I've been looking at starting a project rifle for a while. Finally bit the bullet and bought a stripped RRA lower this week. I can't find parts to complete it now.

Since the lower is the only part that is "registered" it is the most important part of the puzzle. Even though parts are tough to find right now, they will calm down & you will be able to complete your build. Even if a ban magically appeared tomorrow, chances are the only controlled part would be the part w/ the serial number

I would say an AWB as a guarantee is perhaps an overstatement. You might take it in an over-under but...guaranteed?

"Another AWB is a guarantee" is a self-fulfilling prophecy. Don't buy into it.

What do you mean registered?

You mean it would be the only way to prove it was made on such and such a date? We don't even register long guns in NY.

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The Stripped AR-15 is the "Gun", it is the registared part, SN part. If you put a Stripped AR-15 Lower in your pants pocket you are carrying a concealed weapon. If your FFL transfers it to you as a rifle you can sale, ship, trade however you are allowed as rifle. If your FFL transfers the same lower to you as a pistol (if you wanted to build a AR-15 pistol you go this route), you would have to recieve a CCW or Handgun permit to resale, could never ship, USPS, etc. Just trying to get the point across that this lower is the Gun itself. LPKS, Uppers, etc are sold over the counter to anyone. Govt will know and can easly find out if a lower SN was producted before a ban or after. If there is a ban similar to 1994 tomorrow, that takes effect tomorrow. Govt would know when it was produced and which FFL it shipped to. Can check FFL records to find out when and to who it was transfered. If you if you already have on in your hands did you build it before the ban or after, can't really be proved unless you give up the information.

i would bet good money that another AWB will NOT happen any time soon. they're way smarter than that now. it's no secret, and i'm not smart for thinking it- the next big bite we'll see will be in the form of ammunition restrictions/taxes/etc.

why take the guns and cause rage and anger, when you can just gradually tax guns into obsolecence.

Voice if dissent here.... Now is a bad time to buy a lower. Most prices are still stupid as the post electio purchasing frenzy still has a little momentum left and many of the sellers haven't really dropped prices off their highs. Unless you have inside information or really feel a huge need to spend too much then wait for prices to normalize a bit more. I visited a bunch of shops this weekend and it seems to me that stock is starting to pile up at the inflated prices. Unless something gives the panic buying a new push I think dealers will start bringing prices down as all the inventory they order to get ANYthing during the panic starts to pile up.

I don't think lowers are overpriced. Some dealers seem to have them in stock and I have bought mine not that long ago for below MSRP. Besides, if the lower costs $150, $200....so what if you paid $10-20 over that....no big deal to me.

However, what seems to be scarece is the uppers.

I finally received my stag carbine upper after a 6 month wait. My two varmint uppers have 6-9 month and 18-24 month wait. So if you don't mind haging on to it and not be able to shoot for a while, I think it's fine to have a few lowers. I belive that the price won't go much lower when they are selling for pretty much MSRP.

Buying a lower and building yourself is an economical way to get what you want.

I agree that parts are hard to find, no doubt, but you can still get the job done, and for much cheaper than buying a complete rifle right now. Once you have the lower, you can pick up random parts as you find them. Gun shows are a great place to find cheap used parts like collapsable stocks, pins and springs, and flash hiders. The online prices are way higher for that type of stuff, but you can get a whole bag of stuff for next to nothing if you look for it.

And used parts are just as good as new ones in many situations. Stuff like a bolt carrier can cost you close to a hundred or more new, but can be found way cheaper elseware, and you won't lose any quality from a used one unless someone used it as a hammer.

To give you an idea, I just finished a build on a DPMS rifle in 308 last week that took me about a year to build. I bought the receiver last spring before prices went up. I didn't start buying major parts until after the election, and trying to buy the already scarce parts for a 308 type AR rifle is hard enough during the good years. Despite the craziness in the wake of the election, I was still able to find parts.

It takes patience, but it can be done.

+1 on the upper receivers being hard to find right now. When you find one, jump on it.

I see plenty of lowers but no parts, no uppers, and of course, no ammo. There's some sitting on a shelf for $139. marked down from $179.

It's just my opinion, of course, but if ever there is another ban it won't be anything like the previous full of loopholes and stupid definitions assault weapon ban, it's be a complete ban and it won't happen in my lifetime because I'm over half as old as Old fuff.

I always hear you can build one cheaper than you can buy one, so I would assume that if you buy the parts individually you will come out the cheapest b/c you are doing the labor of putting it together yourself.

With that said and based on the prices on the RRA website, if you buy a complete mid-length upper half, ready to go to snap on your lower, it would be $475*. I just priced out the individual parts to build my own mid length upper with the same specs as the fully assembled upper half based on parts from the RRA website and I was in the high $500's. That doesn't make much sense to me.



*I know that is not the current market price if you were to find one somewhere without a wait, but it is based on their pricing on their website at this time.

A lot of guys buy the AR-15 lowers, and buy the build kits as cheap as they come just to have an AR-15. My belief is that if you get the cheapest parts possible, you're going to have the cheapest gun possible (both in craftsmanship, and quality).

I think the other reason is some guys like to do it themselves because they know it's going to be put together correctly, or they just like to know how it works and the "I did it" factor.

So if you go this route, I recommend you only buy quality parts from a reputable manufacturer. They have DVD's on how to build your AR-15 from a parts kit, however there are a lot of how to guides with pictures on The High Road, ar15.com, and the internet in general.

nc76, we're talking about lowers, not uppers.

Buying uppers in little parts don't make sense as individual parts are more expensive than the complete upper. As for lowers, there is only lower parts kit and stripped lower and you can probably assemble those 2 things for cheaper than getting an assembled lower, most of the time.

If you buy a stripped lower, lower parts set, stock, and complete upper, you will *probably* come out ahead than the whole rifle, especially now. But there are circumstances in which you can get the whole gun for cheaper or that it doens't make much difference.

1. During a 1994 ban, the only thing the ATF knew was that the lower left the manufacturer as a stripped receiver before September 1, 1994 - so whether or not the rifle was assembled in a pre-ban configuration is a little less obvious.

2. Currently, your FFL has to check on the 4473 whether the lower was sold as a complete rifle or a stripped lower. So now the ATF knows what condition it left the FFL in.

3. In 1994, the credit card tracking and data-gathering capabilities of commercial information services were almost zero. Today, they are much more advanced and Uncle Sam can buy that data the same as Midway can. It would make it a lot easier to pinpoint when a person had all the components necessary to assemble a firearm in a banned configuration.

4. If the law is written where the grandfather clause is a "defense to prosecution" then all the government has to do is show that you possessed a weapon in a banned configuration, it will be up to you to introduce the evidence that it was built prior to the ban.

5. Given past ATF interpretations on excise tax and the big gray area on building on a stripped lower without paying that tax, you could be opening a whole new can of worms by building on a stripped lower if you later resell the rifle.

For all of those reasons, I don't think the advice to buy a lower/receiver is a good one. I think a complete rifle is a much better way to go.

got a lower and glad I did vs the pro's and con's on it for the cost it did not make sense to my not to do it....

Forget the ban, I want to see one of these folding AR-15 stocks!!

I dont think people should be worried about excise tax payments because even if they wanted to pay them, the ATF will only accept them from an FFL. Paying the tax means you've manufactured the gun with the intent to resell, so they can't require or even allow a non-licensee to pay the tax, because then they would be knowingly accepting a tax from a non-manufacturer that only manufacturers can pay.

Also even FFLs aren't required to pay the excise tax until they've manufactured more than 50 firearms in one year.

For what it's worth AIM has lowers in stock, if you just want something because you are worried about a ban then pick up this one for $90. It's forged and should be just fine stocked away for a rainy day.

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Superior_Arms_S-15_AR15_.223_Receiver.html

lvcat2004 said:

I don't think lowers are overpriced. Some dealers seem to have them in stock and I have bought mine not that long ago for below MSRP. Besides, if the lower costs $150, $200....so what if you paid $10-20 over that....no big deal to me.

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I'm not too worried about the money so much as the principle of the thing. Why pay a premium to gougers who have tried to corner markets?