.380 as a manstopper?

There are some great little guns in .380. As much as I've tried, I just can't like that caliber for serious protection. It's just not powerful enough for me to fully trust. YMMV

I have never been a believer that you need a 44 to people-stop. That said however I think a 380 slug coming from a good Browning BDA or Beretta 84 would be loads better than from an LCP. Especially the followup shots and the speed at which they can be delivered. That is right. It is not so much I am generally against the 380 as a cartridge. I am just somewhat against the pocket guns they are chambered in. Yeah I know there is a purpose for them and all that.

I have a Keltec P3at, and it's accurate enough if I do my part, but it's no fun to practice with. (It's better since I sanded the sharp edge off the trigger.) Ammo is currently very hard to find, and even tho' I reload it's a problem because it throws the brass so far I always lose a few pieces.

It's great for carrying if you never have to shoot it. That's not necessarily a bad thing. A good .38 Special is a lot better IMHO, but it will be twice as heavy.

If you want a manstopper, get a 1875 Remington (.45 Colt)

Maybe. I'm with rcmodel completely. Picking the 'most effective' man-stopping pistol is flawed on its face. Most people who are hit with a single bullet from a pistol will run away. I will ALWAYS advise people to carry the most powerful pistol they can shoot well, because it's a losing game to begin with, and you need all the advantages you can get when you are fighting for your life.

I USED to say that a .380 is the bare minimum to carry, particularly for people who absolutely must have a deep-carry piece. (NOT for regular guys who are just too lazy to adjust their wardrobe and lifestyle to carrying the weapon they shoot the best.) But then in about 1995 I think, I was blown away by the sub-compact Glock. Suddenly, it was possible to carry a tiny gun in 9mm, .40, .45, or .357 SIG. WOW. concealability AND power. These were followed by a lot of other sub-compacts in bigger cartridges. Now there are Kel-tecs, Ruger, Rohrbaugh, etc. in 9mm that are quite reliable. I've never heard anyone give a convincing reason to carry a .380 INSTEAD OF one of these options.

However, I might steer you toward a Makarov. Cheap, brutally reliable, and I am not afraid to shoot Wolf through it. (I have a rule, Russian ammo ONLY in Russian guns.) This reduces the cost. A good friend of mine has one, and keeps it as his 'floater'. The one he can loan to a friend, put in the glovebox, put in an ankle holster, beat up, etc, and he won't get heartbroken if anything happens to it. I would go to a gun show and get a feel for the market.

But honestly, I am not aware of a problem that the .380 could solve, that can't be better solved with something a little bigger and a lot more powerful.

for people who absolutely must have a deep-carry piece. (NOT for regular guys who are just too lazy to adjust their wardrobe and lifestyle to carrying the weapon they shoot the best.)

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The Kel Tec is cheap, the holster (if they even use one is cheap)

Yee haw im only out 300 some odd dollars now im carrying a gun I havent and probably will never shoot.

$179 J&G Sales; CZ-82 9mm Makarov. Stronger than a 380. About equal to a 38 special. As mentioned, 12+1 rounds. Excellent military round. There is ONLY 1; I repeat ONLY 1 reason i wouldn't recommend the 380. That's because of the availability and price of ammo. A gun is useless if you don't have ammo; and it's DANGEROUS TO YOU if you don't practice. Currently, 9mm Makarov ammo from Silver Bear, ranges in price of $10-$12 a box of 50. (THAT INCLUDES SHIPPING/HANDLING). You can plink all day; get good at it; have fun with it; and have a great defense weapon. And if you have a gun show coming up, so you don't have to order one; you might find the CZ-82 available. (DON'T BUY THE 380 version; CZ-83, you defeat the purpose). And if the CZ-82 isn't available at your local gun show, there are other guns in the same caliber. The Hungarian FEG PA-63 and the Polish P64. I love both these guns. They are a little smaller, and they kick a bit more, but they are still fantastic military guns that are reliable, inexpensive, dependable, and cheap to shoot.

Again, I love the 380. It definitely will get the job done. (Let's NOT debate that). But the reason I wouldn't recommend it, is strictly financial and logistics. You said that because of finances, you can't get your 1911A1. Well, at $25-$50 a box for 380, you won't be able to afford to shoot the 380. With the 9mm makarov, you can save approximately $10-$15 a box of ammo. In 10-15 boxes of ammo; you've PAID FOR THE GUN!!!!!!!

If I'm gonna get something, I want the ammo to be a little cheaper so I can afford to practice enough...

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Sounds like you could use a 9mm pistol then.
I carry the Kel Tec P11, and I highly recommend it.

I was planning on getting a P3AT or LCP, but decided against it. The lone reason being the availability and price of .380 ammo.

Earlthegoat2,

You're carrying a gun you haven't tested?

.380 will cause a fair amount of damage if you hit somebody in a vital area. It won't stop a person square in their tracks, but a .45acp won't always do that either. A person needs to take into account that adrenaline does wild things for criminals, it gives the same characteristics as being intoxicated. A couple of well placed shots in the chest or the head will stop somebody even if the shooter is using a .22. Bottom line is no hand gun round is a great manstopper but a .380 in your pocket will do you a world of good compared to a much larger caliber weapon that you don't have readily available. I have always been trained that your side arm was not your primary weapon...it is only there to fight your way to your long gun, be it a shotgun or an assault rifle of some sort. I have carried (for duty use) .45acp, .357 sig, and now 9mm, I feel no less safe or prepared with the 9mm than the other calibers, because when something goes wrong I am going to use my 9mm to get their heads down and when I re-emerge I will have an AR or 12guage in hand to solve the problem. As far as, "well you don't always have a rifle/shotgun in hand" if I thought a situation may go badly I DID HAVE IT IN HAND, and if I didn't I kept it close by. If someone is attacking you or somebody you care about by all means shoot them if the law permits, then get you butt out of there. Don't hang around to get in a drawn out gun battle unless you are equipped, trained, and or required to by your sworn duties. Shoot center mass to stop/slow your attacker, get you and anyone else you care about out of immediate danger of another attack and call for help. If the attacker comes back for more, give them all they want but don't hang around to ask him what he wants to do. Carry a good reliable .380 with some good ammo in it and feel as safe as you can. As far as affordability/availability of .380 ammo, all ammo is hard to come by these days and costs a premium, but for some reason .380 is some of the hardest to get and highest priced. Actually it always has been rather pricey compared to the standard 9mm,.40,.45, ammo.

I've worked in some capacity (private investigator, prosecutor, defense lawyer - primary or consulting) on a couple hundred (my office handles almost all of the criminal defense appeals in my state) handgun killing cases (as well as others in which the handgun shooting failed to kill). Almost 20 .380 cases in there.

I've seen that, given proper bullet selection and shot-placement, the .380 seems to work every bit as well as any other handgun. I'm not going to launch into a treatise on wounding mechanisms, but .380 FMJ is a penetrating SOB and has shut down a number of people right away in cases I've seen. Requires that the vitals be hit, of course.

I've now worked on two cases in which .380 JHPs failed to adequately penetrate to effect a stop. (Both people were later stopped with follow-ups.) I've worked on several in which .380 JHPs worked fine, but I personally would use ball if I were carrying a .380. Although . . . then there are the overpenetration concerns to address.

And I have worked on an overpenetration case involving .380 ball . . .

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i agree. .380 is the one and only caliber where i use FMJ for SD purposes. it just doesn't move fast enough to reliably expand. and if it does expand, the penetration is insufficient.

i also agree with those who say that if you're going to carry a gun as big as the PPK or PPK/S, there are now excellent options in that same size for 9mm. the .380 at this point should really be reserved for the truly small pocket pistols: LCP, P3-AT, seecamp, the new sig 238, and so on. heck, a glock 26 is probably just as concealable as a PPK/S, but with twice as many of a more powerful round. for a single stack, check out the STI LS9. man, i want that gun!

Ammo, as already mentioned is not cheaper for .380 (it is a very popular round these days). Last week I bought 50-rnd WWB 95gr FMJ for $26.99. On the same shelves was various 9mm FMJ for as little as $12.99 for 50-rnds.

That said, I have a SIG P232 (all stainless .380) and love it.

It won't stop a person square in their tracks

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Oh, I've seen cases in which it has . . . and cases in which .45s did not.

Go back and re-read the sentence, I qualified it by saying a .45 won't always stop a person in their tracks either.

One shot stop may be possible (with any caliber) , but it all depends on shot placement and the individual who is shot. You might not hit a vital organ or some don't realize they are dead yet. (shock). That's why you don't fire just once, you never know what will happen. I have a snub nose 44 mag. That doesn't mean I will expect one shot to do the job. I will keep shooting whatever is in my hand until the bad guy is down for good.

A brick wall directly in between you is a manstopper. No handgun is.

Sure! The .380 is a great man (and woman) stopper!
Here's six that got stopped: http://www.newnation.org/NNN-wichita.html

My home guns are Sig 230/232. Like Groucho used to say...You Bet Your Life.
I do mine with these. Loaded with Federal Hydro Shocks.

Go back and re-read the sentence, I qualified it by saying a .45 won't always stop a person in their tracks either.

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No need to get snide - I was making a point to agree with you on part of what you said after having to gently point out that you had said something incorrect.

I know a former vietnam vet who's primary sidearm in the war was a .380. He successfully survived no less than 20 individual encounters with this caliber...the enemy combatants did not.

Battle testing is good enough evidence to me that the caliber is an effective SD round. Another plus is that most guns chambered for the round are very well made and attractive.

I had a Bersa Thunder and liked it until it went south on my after about 400 rds. Guess i got a lemon. Haven't bothered getting it repaired as I got a Bulgy Mak for $200 soon after that and haven't looked back. Hornaday makes some premium SD loads for it but I suspect the current offernings in Silver/Brown bare or even Wolf would be good enough.

Chambering a beefier round than the .380 in a package thats absolutely relaible and amazingly accurate...whats not to like? You can find ammo available for it!

IMHO,9mm.I've had a Glock 19 since they first came out eons ago,and it hasn't given me any trouble.

Ruger LCP .380 $300-$330 6+1 ammo,Ruger p95 9mm luger (9x19)$325 15+1 or 10+1....................lcp is the size of a deck of cards.P95 a little smaller the 45...I kinda think it looks like a 1911 in 9mm.I own both a they are great together or alone..............happy gun hunting.

M&PVolk said:

I know a former vietnam vet who's primary sidearm in the war was a .380. He successfully survived no less than 20 individual encounters with this caliber...the enemy combatants did not.

Battle testing is good enough evidence to me that the caliber is an effective SD round. Another plus is that most guns chambered for the round are very well made and attractive.

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what gun did he carry?

I know a former vietnam vet who's primary sidearm in the war was a .380. He successfully survived no less than 20 individual encounters with this caliber...the enemy combatants did not

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I don't believe this, not for one much less twenty.. what was your former vietnam vet's secondary sidearm?

Man stopper ???

This phrase is constantly being used or should I say misused when speaking about handguns. It does not matter too much what the caliber is as much as the shot placement. Recently I read in the American Handgunner an article where a young man had to defend himself in a restaurant restroom with a .45 caliber ACP handgun. He shot the man twice in the chest and the guy ran 300 yards before he fell to ground near a bank. The police found him and he lived. It really isn't about size as much as it is about shot placement. That said, the 380 ACP is quite adequate to do the job if you do your job. A head shot or shot between the chest pockets will put a man down even with a 32 ACP.