.380 as a manstopper?

Status
Not open for further replies.

dukefan70

Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2008
Messages
106
Location
The Communist Commonwealth of Massachusetts
So finances are forcing me to look elsewhere besides my heart's desire (1911 .45) for my first handgun. If I'm gonna get something, I want the ammo to be a little cheaper so I can afford to practice enough to be damn good with it. Also something I can carry when I want to. The PPK came to mind and I like the feel in the hand. I had a retired cop who is now a dealer give me an opinion that .380 isn't an effective manstopper.

1. Opinions on .380 as a manstopper, reasons why, and credentials/experience.
2. Same as above for .380 hollowpoints.

Thanks in advance.
 
I had a PPK .380acp. it was plenty accurate but I have large hands and the slide would hit my thumb knuckle unless I was very careful with my grip. I sold it and got a CZ83.
I sure won't volunteer to be hit COM with a .380acp slug.
 
I want the ammo to be a little cheaper so I can afford to practice enough to be damn good with it.
.380 isn't the choice for you then. It tends to be more expensive than 9mm or even .40.

I had a retired cop who is now a dealer give me an opinion that .380 isn't an effective manstopper.
I can assure you that if you asked enough retired cops who are now dealers about any caliber aside from their favorite, you will be told it isn't an effective manstopper or too much gun and will get you thrown in prison for premeditated murder.

COM is center-of-mass. I wouldn't volunteer to be shot anywhere, COM or not, with a .177 pellet pistol, but that doesn't mean I would carry one.
 
First, No handgun is truly a man-stopper.
And if you ever have to use it, you will wish it was bigger & more powerful, no matter how big it is.

Even a .40 S&W or 45 ACP can fail to stop a man at times.

With that said, many consider the .380 ACP to be the bare minimum for an effective round.

On the other hand, Russia and the rest of the communist empire used basically a .380 service pistol for 50 years (9mm MAK).

European police thought the .32 ACP was perfectly adequate for over half a century too.

SO, who is right.

I carry a Kel-Tec P3AT .380 more then any of the other 25+ handguns I own.
Why?
Because it is the smallest, lightest effective caliber handgun you can buy at any price.
Load it with any good JHP SD load and it will Get-R-Done if you can shoot it.
Even Atila the Hun would fall down with 7 .380 JHP in the chest I betcha!

As for a steel-frame PPK or other .380?
Today, you can buy a number of 9mm pistols that are smaller, lighter, and doesn't kick as hard. The PPK kicks right smartly with hot SD ammo because it is a blow-back action.

And 9mm ammo is the all-time champ when it comes to plentiful & cheap everywhere.

rc
 
.380 Ammo has been a little scarce around here. Cost more to shoot than 9mm's. Buy some good defense ammo that will cycle in your pistol and then use Win-White Box to practice with. Shoot a mag or two of the defense ammo through your pistol about once a month. To make sure you and your pistol are working together as planned.
 
i carry a .32 ACP Tomcat its plenty enough firepower with 7+1 shots , i am sure a .380 ACp with 7 shots is plenty too as long as you dont miss ... thas same with any gun. i also carry a PT92c 9mm when i go into dangerous areas.
 
I can assure you that if you asked enough retired cops who are now dealers about any caliber aside from their favorite, you will be told it isn't an effective manstopper or too much gun and will get you thrown in prison for premeditated murder.
I've never heard of someone suggesting that a certain caliber constituted premeditated murder, or in other words first degree homicide. Perhaps that was an exaggeration.

I've been around both working and retired officers, and "favorite" among LE tend to be from the gun they found most accurate or were first trained to use. So some like .38/.357, some 9mm, some .40 S&W, and some .45 acp. You will find a few that love .41 mag, and .44 special. (I am very tired of the "European" argument..., "Hey .32 ACP worked for years for European police". Sorry, the mind-set where the .32 acp was used, is skewed to something other than dropping an armed assailant first, and all else secondary. In those countries where the .32 acp was the norm for police, the "political" concern was about how much damage the police might do to the poor criminal (first), and then protection of the officer. Not the other way round.)

ANY of the rounds I mentioned will do the job with reasonable shot placement, as opposed to "perfect" shot placement, which is something else that cause LE officers to prefer certain calibers. Some, OK more than half, are mediocre shots. Perfect placement will work for any round and a .22 LR is then a "man-stopper". REMEMBER too that LE Officers will also judge a round based on their confidence in being able to go toward a suspect, confront, and engage (that's what police do) while most civilians have the option (in some states the "duty") to retreat, and only need a round to halt a fight, and cause a suspect to flee, for it to be "effective".

It also depends on where you may need to use the handgun for SD. One school of thought is that you using a lighter caliber handgun inside a home even if not immediately effective on impact, will encourage the assailant to retreat and flee. Outside the home, some consider it a good round to injure an attacker to allow you to escape. Some think it's a great round, in that it hits hard for its size, and its size allows you to carry it in hot weather and light clothing, so you DO have a gun when the fight occurs.

I am LE, and I think the .380 acp round is lighter than what I would call a minimum, with a 9mm HP or a .38 +P HP as the smallest that I would go, but again, I have had 20 years of training plus 4.5 years active military service, and my viewpoint is skewed from that. I know of an older lady who has a Colt 6-shot, .32 Long, snub-nosed, detective special her late police-detective husband left her..., and at 70 years of age, she can hit a 4" disc at 25 feet. I don't doubt that she would win an encounter vs a badguy in her home. .32 long is NOT my choice for SD but the first part of the equation is can YOU shoot it well, and hit what you need to hit when under stress? Get what you can shoot well, then practice practice practice.

OH btw .38 is cheaper than .380. I just got a 7 shot 2" Taurus, for an extra gun around the house. You want small try SP 101.

LD
 
I am a retired cop 30 years and the 380 is a fine defense round. We are not doing police work here anymore. Police rounds need a vastly wider range of duties than just a civilian defensive carry gun. The 32 will do the job but lets not fool ourselves the 9mm, 40 or 45 do it better of course. I would carry my 32 PPK without hesitation, because I know that shot placement is what it's all about. I'm not shooting through cars or barriers anymore. It's a gun to save your family and your life, up close and personal. A lot of 32 or 380 bullet holes through someones body will make their day get ugly real fast. The ppk is super handgun I like it better in 32.
 
Right up front, I am no pro operator, LE trainer or any of that.

That said, I am a bit of a fan of the .380; I have 3 at the moment. I feel that the cartridge is in the grey area between "perfectly acceptable", and "a bit light".

Aside from tactics and shot placement, yes, I'd add that the .380 is somewhat load-dependant; as in, I'd *personally* be happy with double tap, buffalo bore or corbon JHPs (all of which are pretty hot out of the *relatively* longer barrels of my beretta, bersa, or even the PPK), or a high-tech bullet like Federal's Hydra-shok from the same guns. (Long barrel relative to a kel-tec or LCP, by the way). I don't feel unarmed with, say, the bersa and the Federal round.

So if you want to carry the PPK and it feeds and ejects everytime, and you can get the hits, and you are using the best JHPs that are available, I don't see a big problem. (for whatever my opinion is worth)

That said, my next gun will definitely be a subcompact 9mm for the reasons mentioned by others: same size and weight range as my .380s, a more powerful round (though still *somewhat* load dependant, just with a more good options available) and cheaper/easier to find ammo.

Hard to justify the .380 as a carry gun at this point, unless you are talking about the 10oz micro guns.

Or... you just like the classic blowbacks, as do I.

Other opinions may certainly differ.
 
Opinions on .380 as a manstopper, reasons why, and credentials/experience.

The .380 is a great carry round because it is found in some great carry guns...Sig, Beretta, CZ, Sphinx, P7K3, Walther, Browning, Makarov, etc.

My credentials... Professional/retired mall ninja with 36 years active service. Constantly read only accurate appraisals of firearms on the internet. I've seen and fondled dozens of guns in my life and my friends have told me about many more. Loyal gun show attendee...I love beef jerky. ;)

...but I am serious about the first line. Personally, I carry a HK, but I'd feel perfectly safe and adequately armed with any of the pistols I mentioned chambered in any high quality .380acp ammo. Ball or hollow point, I carry that which feeds best and I shoot best. The bullet is the least of my concerns. I worry more about being able to consistantly hit what I aim at.
 
Nobody has mentioned in any detail the bargain that is the CZ82. 9mmMak is a bit stiffer load than most .380 and can be had in decent condition for under $250. With a capacity of 12+1 and the fact it is made of steel, it gets pretty heavy for hot weather carry. But I read on here yesterday that somebody is considering a hot load for the 9mm Mak too, maybe 250 fps/300 lbs or so, maybe Buffalo Bore ?

Have to agree with those that say .380 is on the light side, but when wearing shorts and a tee shirt, it beats going unarmed by a huge margin.
 
I've worked in some capacity (private investigator, prosecutor, defense lawyer - primary or consulting) on a couple hundred (my office handles almost all of the criminal defense appeals in my state) handgun killing cases (as well as others in which the handgun shooting failed to kill). Almost 20 .380 cases in there.

I've seen that, given proper bullet selection and shot-placement, the .380 seems to work every bit as well as any other handgun. I'm not going to launch into a treatise on wounding mechanisms, but .380 FMJ is a penetrating SOB and has shut down a number of people right away in cases I've seen. Requires that the vitals be hit, of course.

I've now worked on two cases in which .380 JHPs failed to adequately penetrate to effect a stop. (Both people were later stopped with follow-ups.) I've worked on several in which .380 JHPs worked fine, but I personally would use ball if I were carrying a .380. Although . . . then there are the overpenetration concerns to address.

And I have worked on an overpenetration case involving .380 ball . . .
 
Last edited:
Well, I might as well name-drop a little, Evan Marshall, who has written quite a bit on this subject says: "Don't underestimate this round!".....:cool:
ConcealedWallyWorld002.gif
 
Another one of these?

Carry a .454 Casull revolver if you want a manstopper, otherwise make your own decision on the compromises between concealment, power, ammo cost, and ergonomics.

These threads are getting tedious.
 
I have no insecurity complex carrying my 7-plus-1 Bersa Thunder in .380ACP. When I worked in law enforcement, I carried as a BU/OD gun the last year or so a Walther PPK/S. Nice piece, very accurate for its intended mission. I find today though, that the Bersa, among just these two pieces, makes for a more "natural" fighter. It's a little bigger (which, admittedly, can be a concealment hindrance) and fills the hand, and it's longer sight radius makes it more "pointable" in defensive combat. The extra barrel length may even give a little more push to the projectile. Also, its larger beavertail does a better job at keeping the hand out of the path of the slide.
I have no doubts in the caliber's ability to get me out of the type of trouble I'd be most likely to get into. I don't do LE work anymore, so I don't need to carry something powerful enough to shoot through vehicle doors, windshields, or over greater distances than typical SD situations call for.
 
Imo you need a 9mm for a bit more power and its alot cheaper and readily available.
Will this be a home defense gun or for concealed carry?
If its for home defense id suggest an XD or a Glock 9mm.
If its for self defense and carry id say look at 9mm Kahr,Taurus,Keltec.
A .380 is ok as a cartridge,but way to expensive for what you want.Especially since more powerfull 9mm can be had for cheaper.
Id carry a .380 as a back up gun,but a 9mm id carry as a main gun if i had too.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top