I recently purchased a really fine example of the 1903a3 springfield rifle. however older eyes aren't handling the peep sights as well as they used to. I see samco sells 03a4 scope mounts, does anyone have experiencewith this modification and what else needs to be done ie bolt bending etc...
scoping the 1903a3
- Thread starter rob4570
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HoosierQ
Member
Rob
I will be the first.
Is your 1903a3 in original military condition? If so, please don't mess with it. Those are getting more and more hard to find and the A3 is an especially desireable variant. Folks all over America are dying to get their hands one of those...in original military condition. Don't do anything to it that cannot be completely reversed.
If it has already been sporterized...then somebody here will probably help.
I spoke up early because lots of people will freak out at the thought of you doctoring up an original A3 so if it has been sporterized (aka Bubba'd) already, say so now, and the conversation will go straight to your gunsmithing question with no emotion.
I will be the first.
Is your 1903a3 in original military condition? If so, please don't mess with it. Those are getting more and more hard to find and the A3 is an especially desireable variant. Folks all over America are dying to get their hands one of those...in original military condition. Don't do anything to it that cannot be completely reversed.
If it has already been sporterized...then somebody here will probably help.
I spoke up early because lots of people will freak out at the thought of you doctoring up an original A3 so if it has been sporterized (aka Bubba'd) already, say so now, and the conversation will go straight to your gunsmithing question with no emotion.
R.W.Dale
Member
Sounds like an excellent way to spend money to make a collectible and rather valuable rifle loose 75% of it's value INSTANTLY
do yourself a favor sell the Springfield and buy some new plastic stocked savremchesterruger and throw a BSA on that
HoosierQ
Member
Told you Rob.
Put down that Dremel tool man, there's got to be another way.
Put down that Dremel tool man, there's got to be another way.
1KPerDay
Member
Rob, check this out...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOiq37YEqMM
apparently S&K Insta-mount makes a mount for the A3 also. Bolts on, no permanent modification to original rifle, no drilling.
http://www.scopemounts.com/index.html?main.html
If you click on the "ex military" and then the "prices" list you see that if you use high scope bases you don't have to grind the bolt.
I second the advice to not grind/drill/modify the rifle. However, it's your rifle. If you don't decide on the above mount, I'd keep the A3 as is and give it to your grandson or something, and buy a sporterized one or a cheap bolt gun to mount a scope to.
Good luck in your search!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOiq37YEqMM
apparently S&K Insta-mount makes a mount for the A3 also. Bolts on, no permanent modification to original rifle, no drilling.
http://www.scopemounts.com/index.html?main.html
If you click on the "ex military" and then the "prices" list you see that if you use high scope bases you don't have to grind the bolt.
I second the advice to not grind/drill/modify the rifle. However, it's your rifle. If you don't decide on the above mount, I'd keep the A3 as is and give it to your grandson or something, and buy a sporterized one or a cheap bolt gun to mount a scope to.
Good luck in your search!
jimmyraythomason
Member
It's your rifle rob4570 do whatever you want to with it. It is nobody's business but your's. I wouldn't want anyone else telling me not to put aftermarket parts on my original '69 Mach-1 Mustang either.
R.W.Dale
Member
What about cutting a hole in the top for a sunroof?
Which is a close automotive equivelant
jimmyraythomason
Member
So,it is MY roof.
R.W.Dale
Member
And that's fine. But friends and family wouldn't be very good if they didn't try to persuade you away from such a foolish decision.
jimmyraythomason
Member
krochus,that is true however the OP asked what was involved not should I do it. BTW,I would never dream of putting a sunroof in a '69 Mach-1,just don't want anyone else telling me not to do it.
I know you've heard this already BUT if it is an original don't mess with it. That would be a travesty to deface a 65 year old American veteran. There are millions and millions of cheap rifles out there to do whatever you need to do.
Having said all that you don't want to use the supposed A4 mount ... they're crap. Get a Redfield single piece mount. The rear site must be removed and it is seriously staked to the receiver from the arsenal. The receiver needs to be precisely drilled and tapped to install it and then you either need to modify the existing bolt or find another bolt that has had the bolt handle already turned down and then have headspace and set back checked. And then you need to install a low scope safety on the bolt.
In short the venture would be costly, impetuous and not worth the effort.
SO JUST BACK AWAY FROM THE MIL_SPEC 1903A3
I have a number of 1903A3's that have already been debauched that are supremely accurate and extremely impressive visually. Perhaps a trade of some type?
Even though SOME folks don't like being told anything at times it's necessary to keep people from doing obviously dumb things.
Having said all that you don't want to use the supposed A4 mount ... they're crap. Get a Redfield single piece mount. The rear site must be removed and it is seriously staked to the receiver from the arsenal. The receiver needs to be precisely drilled and tapped to install it and then you either need to modify the existing bolt or find another bolt that has had the bolt handle already turned down and then have headspace and set back checked. And then you need to install a low scope safety on the bolt.
In short the venture would be costly, impetuous and not worth the effort.
SO JUST BACK AWAY FROM THE MIL_SPEC 1903A3
I have a number of 1903A3's that have already been debauched that are supremely accurate and extremely impressive visually. Perhaps a trade of some type?
Even though SOME folks don't like being told anything at times it's necessary to keep people from doing obviously dumb things.
jimmyraythomason
Member
In most cases the Springfield receiver will have to be spot annealled to allow for D&T. I installed a set of Weaver 2pc mounts on an '03a3 in the early '80s don't recall having to modify the bolt handle(but it has been 25 years). I wouldn't do it again especially to an intact example.
jimmyraythomason
Member
Why do you feel compelled to stop anyone from doing stupid things? And who determines what it stupid?
R.W.Dale
Member
I didn't say stupid did I?
But it wouldn't be right to allow someone in ignorance to make a decision that had negitive consequences.
IE cheating that little old lady out of her Mach 1 for $500
But it wouldn't be right to allow someone in ignorance to make a decision that had negitive consequences.
IE cheating that little old lady out of her Mach 1 for $500
Boba Fett
Member
As an owner of a 1903A3, I have to cast my vote in for not messing with it in such a way that would permanently alter the rifle.
Certainly it is his rifle and he can do what you want with it. But we would be neglect if we did not strongly urge him to reconsider. And I wouldn't call such a choice stupid (nor have I seen anyone do so in this thread), but I would call it ill advised and not the best choice. Still his to make, but probably wont get a lot of support from fellow 1903A3 owners.
I can sympathize the "old eyes" problem, God knows we'll all probably suffer the same fate eventually. My advice, if you want a scoped rifle, purchase something else and put a scope on it.
Certainly it is his rifle and he can do what you want with it. But we would be neglect if we did not strongly urge him to reconsider. And I wouldn't call such a choice stupid (nor have I seen anyone do so in this thread), but I would call it ill advised and not the best choice. Still his to make, but probably wont get a lot of support from fellow 1903A3 owners.
I can sympathize the "old eyes" problem, God knows we'll all probably suffer the same fate eventually. My advice, if you want a scoped rifle, purchase something else and put a scope on it.
jimmyraythomason
Member
No,you didn't say "stupid" krochus,my bad. I certainly wouldn't alter MY original Springfield permanently(if I had one) but if I chose to and knowing the consequences asked for information I would not appreciate unsolicited advice. Especially advice that intimated that I was being "dumb".
1KPerDay
Member
You must be new to the internet.
DUMB ............. did someone say DUMB? Let's quit being "PC" and quit worrying about being offended and consider the content rather than the intent.
The receiver does NOT need to be annealed to be drill and tapped. NOR SHOULD EVER BE ANNEALED ON ANY SPOT AT ANY TIME!!!!! The trick is to use the premium and costly drill bits for that type of metal drilling and to use the proper drill speed. The taps the same thing. Get the good stuff and when cutting the threads being very patient.
Weaver 2 piece scope mounts are terrible. They're poor quality. Made of aluminium and they make the rifle look stupid
The current Redfield single piece are made of steel and the single piece lends rigidity to the receiver. Both lead to more accuracy potenial.
If you don't need to turn the bolt handle down then the scope is WAAAAAAAY too high
The scope needs to be as close to the rifle centerline as possible for easy of use and accuracy.
When these rifles are basically blueprinted and completely gone through they have tremendous long range and accuracy potential.
Here's a few pics of my most recent project I just completed.
And yes it was bubba'ed before I got it. I rescued it from the pawn shop. It looked like Goober's deer rifle
But the barrel and receiver were like new except they had been drilled and tapped for not only Weaver mounts but also Lyman type rear peep sights. I pitched the junk Weaver mounts and installed the Redfield one piece. It's a Smith Corona. I said, self I could make this into a 1903A3 hybrid sniper rifle. You know, a little marriage between something old and something new.
I think it came out pretty well and it's a beast. It was with relative consistancy hitting gallon size water jugs at approx. 800 yrds.
168 gr. Sierra MK, 56 gr. Reloder 19.
Wuddahya think
The receiver does NOT need to be annealed to be drill and tapped. NOR SHOULD EVER BE ANNEALED ON ANY SPOT AT ANY TIME!!!!! The trick is to use the premium and costly drill bits for that type of metal drilling and to use the proper drill speed. The taps the same thing. Get the good stuff and when cutting the threads being very patient.
Weaver 2 piece scope mounts are terrible. They're poor quality. Made of aluminium and they make the rifle look stupid
The current Redfield single piece are made of steel and the single piece lends rigidity to the receiver. Both lead to more accuracy potenial.
If you don't need to turn the bolt handle down then the scope is WAAAAAAAY too high
The scope needs to be as close to the rifle centerline as possible for easy of use and accuracy.
When these rifles are basically blueprinted and completely gone through they have tremendous long range and accuracy potential.
Here's a few pics of my most recent project I just completed.
And yes it was bubba'ed before I got it. I rescued it from the pawn shop. It looked like Goober's deer rifle
But the barrel and receiver were like new except they had been drilled and tapped for not only Weaver mounts but also Lyman type rear peep sights. I pitched the junk Weaver mounts and installed the Redfield one piece. It's a Smith Corona. I said, self I could make this into a 1903A3 hybrid sniper rifle. You know, a little marriage between something old and something new.I think it came out pretty well and it's a beast. It was with relative consistancy hitting gallon size water jugs at approx. 800 yrds.
168 gr. Sierra MK, 56 gr. Reloder 19.
Wuddahya think
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Boba Fett
Member
^^^^^^^^^
That rifle and that scope together...uh...it looks like someone put a supercharger on a Model T.
No offense; it's just how it looks. My compliments on a good find though and rescuing it from the pawn shop before someone could do something worse to it. If it is already setup for a scope then you might as well scope it and have fun.
That rifle and that scope together...uh...it looks like someone put a supercharger on a Model T.
No offense; it's just how it looks. My compliments on a good find though and rescuing it from the pawn shop before someone could do something worse to it. If it is already setup for a scope then you might as well scope it and have fun.
Bob I do have fun with it. After all though it's just an old beater that was cobbled together by some idjit and it just happens to shoot sub-MOA groups and will hit gallon jugs at 800 yrds. with a nearly perfect fit and finish and state of the art mil-spec scope ......... other than that it's just an old beater 
jimmyraythomason
Member
I am definitely NOT new to the interenet. Nor am I surprised by so much unsolicited advice of forums. I don't like it here or in a gunshop or even a hardware store. I don't mind someone telling me the bridge is out but don't tell me I can't jump in if I want to. BTW,in 1980,2pc Weaver bases were all I could find and spot annealling was recommended by the sporterizing manual I was using. I don't remember doing anything to the bolt or safety but that doesn't mean that I didn't.
b-square makes a mount for the 03a3 that requires basically no gunsmithingit replaces the factory magazine cutoff which i would think is easily switched back out and returned to original military condition...heres the link http://secure.armorholdings.com/b-square/springfield.html
Boba Fett
Member
I think you're gonna need T-Shirts made if you really want people to stop being nice to you.
Something like, "Back the hell off and keep your well intentioned advice to your stupid self."
Nice! What ammo do you feed it?
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