Another Pizza Hut story with a good ending...

I'm not meaning to derail your thread but this seems weird to me.

Just after closing, the deliveryman said the store manager asked if he wanted a soda from the McDonald's across the street. The deliveryman said no, and continued cleaning while the manager left.

Read more: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2010/09/29/1725241/pizza-driver-hit-by-bandits-i.html#ixzz1171bVXNE

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Why would the store manager of Pizza Hut walk across the street to McDonalds to buy a soda?

Make me wonder if he is the 3rd suspect that got away?

Will Pizza Hut change its policy? Probably not and if so, most likely not publically.

Could/Should he have used his gun earlier? Maybe. Being forced into a cooler leads to being killed fairly often. But with out being there, I reserve judgement. Its a very personal thing deciding when to shoot someone. Everyone threshold is going to be different alone with the circumstances.

The driver is a hero as far as I'm concerned and I certainly won't mourn the passing of the two vermin from this world.

Moved to S&T. All the S&T rules apply.

He says he didn't want to use the gun unless he was forced to... being pistol-whipped seems pretty "forced to" to me. It also seems to me that waiting until your assailant is grabbing your shirt and exposing your weapon to draw and fire is asking for your gun to be grabbed.

dovedescending said:

He says he didn't want to use the gun unless he was forced to... being pistol-whipped seems pretty "forced to" to me.

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Yeah, I would have drawn and fired right then personally, since the apparent level of threat to my life just went way, way up.

dovedescending said:

It also seems to me that waiting until your assailant is grabbing your shirt and exposing your weapon to draw and fire is asking for your gun to be grabbed.

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I guess the deliveryman was afraid that drawing his weapon would have gotten him shot since they "had the drop" on him, so he waited until he had no other choice. I would have done the same thing, only that I would have taken the chance and defended myself earlier, as I said above.

Why would the store manager of Pizza Hut walk across the street to McDonalds to buy a soda?

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Simple: Pizza Hut sells Pepsi products. Mickey D's sells Coke.

Since Pepsi sucks, one would have to walk across the street to get a real soda, a.k.a. Coca Cola

Those meany stupid heads. The driver should have told his mom on them.

It is because of incidences like this that I don't believe that OC is a good thing. Perhaps if he had been OCing the crooks would have left without doing anything but I think it is much more likely that they would have simply shoot the driver as soon as they saw his gun.

IMHO, having the weapon concealed is what saved this man's life.

The two men killed were both 21-year-old convicted felons, one on probation and one awaiting trial on unrelated charges

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Sounds to me like the failed justice system in the U.S. isn't doing anybody any favors...

I think the driver did an outstancing job.... though he did so at great risk.

But it sounds like they got the drop on him, so his options may have been limited.

He kept his piece concealed, which served him very well...
1. he wasn't disarmed
2. his own weopon wasn't used against him
3. he didn't spook his attackers and ratchet their level of violence up

By enduring their physical abuse, he increased the certainty that...
1. he would not be charged for a bad shoot
2. his conscience won't forever be haunted with doubts and "what ifs"

In my mind, this story weighs in on the recent discussions about letting perps. know you are armed, as well as the perpetual OC vs. CCW debate and highlights some benefits of "keeping your cards close" and how it can affod you the tactical element of surprise.

SSN Vet said:

Sounds to me like the failed justice system in the U.S. isn't doing anybody any favors...

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It doesn't matter what you do with these kinds of people--the vast majority of them WILL offend again and again and again. What can we do to stop them besides giving them the death penalty, either in court or by gunfire in self-defense? Life in prison doesn't work because there are far too many of them to contain, and in any case they are useful to the government as instruments for instilling fear in law-abiding citizens. :banghead:

SSN Vet said:

In my mind, this story weighs in on the recent discussions about letting perps. know you are armed, as well as the perpetual OC vs. CCW debate and highlights some benefits of "keeping your cards close" and how it can affod you the tactical element of surprise.

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Agreed. While the danger of getting bushwhacked from behind when open-carrying has been overstated, I think that on an individual basis the overall advantage goes to CCW, and that in a much broader sense it makes things much more uncertain and downright scary for criminals if anybody could be armed at any time, unbeknownst to them.

Simple: Pizza Hut sells Pepsi products. Mickey D's sells Coke.

Since Pepsi sucks, one would have to walk across the street to get a real soda, a.k.a. Coca Cola

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I agree. I'd go to McD's too.

IMHO, having the weapon concealed is what saved this man's life.

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I agree. It gave him the element of surprise in this case. They might not have attacked in the first place if he were OCing. Lot of "ifs" there, bottom line is he's still here. I don't know if his tactics were perfect or not, but they did work. He's wasn't the BG and he's alive, they were and they aren't... given those facts, I'd say he did it right.

I hope that they put as much emphasis on the criminal being busted with a concealed weapon and given probation as they will the actual act of SD. In my mind, if they'd focus on that, our dialogue over things like OC vs CC would be considerably shorter.

I would like to think that Pizza Hut will not change the policy, but I surely will keep an eye open to see if they do, even quietly.

I'm proud of this man. I believe the investigating officer, if I remember what my instructor said correctly, stated that there were two less scumbags on the streets now.

I'm also proud that the police are on this guys side. Pizza Hut would be foolish to fire him for self defense.


IMHO, he probably waited to pull his gun out because he really didn't want to use it or was scared of getting fired like previous employees, which is understandable.

Pizza Hut is anti RKBA? huh, guess I will stick to Red baron or somthing.

The driver was either very smart or very dumb. I admit though that letting them get their beat on before yanking his leadthrower saved him from any indictment by Grand Jury. He could have been killed though. Maybe he has little (or no) combat training while under stress and just "forgot" he was carrying for a few mins, or hopeing to fieghn death/injury and avoid haveing to shoot at all, after all ....its Pizza Hut's money right? Not his, and if they don't want him to carry so he can protect his life and money then why should he care?

But they didn't stop..the beating persisted and he did what he did, and I applaud his actions.

While i would like to see OC law here in Texas I would still carry concealed. Felons are notoriously nervous about the unknown, and fear armed citizens more than they do police, police arrest you, they have rules of engagement. Average Joe victim does not care if you are arrested,, and does not have as limited a set of rules for defending themselves from violent perpetrators.

Pulling to soon would have gotten him fired at the least, and its possible charges would have been fired.

Always good to see when the good guys come out on top. This took place just down the road from where I live back in NC.

As soon as they tried to move me to a back room / cooler / etc., I'd be looking for an opportunity to draw and fire. Doubly so if they were physically agressive / violent about it, as in this case. I'm not going to be 'executed' if I have anything to say about it.

I think the guy did everything he could have, under the circumstances. I might have acted sooner, but it's impossible to say. I wasn't there.

It sucks that he's probably going to be out of a job now, but hey, better unemployed than dead.

R

Same as Sgt R.

It looks like this delivery man and his manager were about to be eliminated as a witness. Glad this guy was in a position to do what he had to do. Probably the only reason he was taking the beating is they got the drop on him right at the beginning. Apparently he had no choice except to rolll with the punches until the opportunity to draw his weapon presented itself.

Wonder what sort of IWB holster rig he was using, sounds like it did it's job fairly well.

A lot of people CCW because the gun is a comforting talasmin.

Over the years I've talked to a lot of CCWers that have never really given serious thought to the taking of another life. They take the first step of packing the gun but don't take the next step of confronting the reality of possibly USING the gun.

Unless and until you go through that mental/spiritual self analysis, carrying a gun just carrying a gun and not carrying a weapon.

Killing is something that most civilized people are reluctant to do (thankfully) I seem to recall reading about soldiers in the Civil war found dead on the battle field with 5 or 6 Minié balls and powder loads stuffed into the barrel of their Springfield.

I suspect the pizza delivery guy was suffering from the same thing but thankfully snapped out of it at the last second.


As for Pizza Hut, I haven't eaten at one in years in part because of their CCW policy ... but mostly its because the pizza is lousy

IMO this is another example of emphasizing consequences, as opposed to odds, in order to determine a course of action.

Many would assess that the odds of being killed are smaller should one not resist criminal actions, than if one did indeed resist. These individuals would place their security into the hands of the criminal in hopes of survival.

HOWEVER, the consequences of NOT resisting could prove fatal. This price I am not willing to pay.

I am of the opinion that it is far better to resist, as resistance gives you some control over your survival, and SOME control is better than NO control.

Ike R said:

Pizza Hut is anti RKBA? huh,

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Yes, they are very anti RKBA, even for their drivers, who are robbed/beaten/killed on a regular basis.

This driver is alive, and so are his co-workers. He is also un-employed, as per company policy.

I'm not going to say what I would or wouldn't have done since I wasn't there to see the situation unfold. I am however going to give a virtual pat on the back to the delivery driver. The situation could have turned out much, much worse.
Lesson learned: this guy kept his cool and came out on top.

sounds like the guy did an outstanding job.

The manager asked the driver if HE, the driver wanted a soda.

The manager could have been going to the store for anything, cigarettes, red bull, condoms, Funyuns.

So I've called Pizza Hut's corporate office and stated that if they fire the gentleman in NC I will boycott Pizza Hut til they make it right.
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