Bobson
Member
How's that? We have a plethora of rifles with all those things already.
Also, I bet every single one of them would sell like hotcakes on the private market, WEG.
You think Glock could build a helluva good .223 carbine for under $1,000?
- Thread starter StrikeFire83
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Also, I bet every single one of them would sell like hotcakes on the private market, WEG.
mortablunt
Member
If you want a pistol caliber carbine, then get a Beretta Cx4 Storm.
If you want to get a low caliber rifle, then get an AK.
If you want to get a low caliber rifle, then get an AK.
I'm not the first to mention it, and if this thread lasts I wont be the last. Glocks are often referred to as 'the AKs of the pistol world'. If you want an inexpensive .223 that will run clean/dirty, wet/dry, hot/cold, just run, run, run- get a Saiga in .223/5.56. Do the conversion and hang all the polymer and accessories you want off of it.
I recently got one and did the conversion. It works.
I don't expect to win any benchrest competitions with it, but I wouldn't buy an AR for that either. And I'd surely take my Baer 1911 over any polymers I've shot if I were shooting bullseye pistol as well.
I recently got one and did the conversion. It works.
I don't expect to win any benchrest competitions with it, but I wouldn't buy an AR for that either. And I'd surely take my Baer 1911 over any polymers I've shot if I were shooting bullseye pistol as well.
Mid point; IMO low point unless you are people popping or going to combat? Hummmm
Last Glock I had did not have much metal in it and still cost $400
I do not run my guns all that wet but I do use CLP. I just do not have any problems with the BCG or the ARs with FTF or FTE but all I do is hunt and occasionally pop paper.
True I have never fired more than 300 rounds in one day on any AR except the .22 uppers which I have shot approx 550 a day through them on a couple of occasions while wasting time and working on different target ranges and optics.
Plumcrazy has a full polymer lower that has two springs that are metal with everything else being polymer and can be found for 109 to $119 and you know they are not selling them at a loss.
If I were Glock I think I would take care of the gen 4s before I thought about doing anything. To many reports of less than pleased customers with trigger and spring problems resulting in FTF and FTE. Yes there are 10,000 guys who have never had a problem with their Gen 4s but as a percentage the Gen 4 seems to have more problems than those that went before.
http://youtu.be/Mj8Qt8ofCAw
jojo200517
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Humm runs dirty dry unlubed with no maintance you say?
Simple and uncomplicated you say?
I think the item you seek is an AK
. Yeah you can get them in .22lr, .223/5.56nato, 5.45x39, 7.62x39, 7.62nato/.308, .410gauge, 20gauge, and 12 gauge. Granted they don't swap around all willy nilly like AR uppers do but they don't generally cost much more than a high end upper either, sometimes not as much.Now as far as polymer AR's? I know there is a company plum crazy that does make a polymer lower. Not sure but I'd assume there are others. I'd akin this to being like the lower polymer part of the glock I suppose while the slide/upper is still made of metal.
451 Detonics
Member
Could they do it? I am sure they could. Will they? I doubt it. At the Indiana GSSF shoot last year I talked a good bit with the Glock Guys. According to them the folks in Austria completely fail to understand the American market and the American shooter. They simply don't believe that there are as many recreational shooters as there really are. Because of that incorrect believe they are very slow to try to introduce a new product line. I can only imagine the response if they offered a full size in 9X23 for competition shooters...
JohnBT
Member
"You think Glock could build a helluva good .223 carbine for under $1,000?"
Build one for a grand? Sure. But they'd probably charge $4000 for that $1000 gun.
Build one for a grand? Sure. But they'd probably charge $4000 for that $1000 gun.
againstthagrane
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Too bad we can't import those conversion stocks they sell for glocks overseas. they're about $500 and they convert glocks into carbines. not .223, but still cool.
I think the more important issue is if there is a market for a new rifle in .223. Everyone and their brother is making AR's these days. The .223 market is full of high quality rifles for $1500 or less. When you look at other attempts to build a non-AR .223 they have all been a relative failure. I've never seen a kel-tec in person in a gun store, be it the little mom and pop store or some of the biggest in the state. The ACR and SCAR have sold in limited quantities at best. The XCR has been around for a while and is at best a niche rifle. The mini-14 has had good success but if brought up today as an item for purchase, at least most forum posters trash it's performance compared to the AR. There are AKs in .223, but again, far from an overly common item. There are the MSAR and AUG type rifles which made an attempt but didn't do much. The FN options were video game cool but have been a novelty at best.
My point is that, at least in the US, you don't see any other current production .223 really holding a firm market share. While certainly there were other 9mm pistols out when Glock came out with the 17, it had a new twist using polymer when everyone else was using steel or aluminium. They had a unique and quality product that did things better than a lot of other current designs. Not to say that the 17 was the perfection Glock makes it out to be, but it had some advantages over the then current market. Polymer rifles have been made in .223. Metal rifles have been made. Piston rifles have been made. High quality, highly reliable, highly accurate, mildly priced rifles have been made. Unless a new company can capitalize on such a shift as when Glock introduced a quality composite pistol in an all metal world, I don't see another .223 rifle doing much to slow the sales of the AR based rifle. Maybe if the SCAR, ACR, or XCR were priced at $850 we would see them compete, but it doesn't seem like that will happen so I don't personally expect to see the AR system lose much market share to another design.
My point is that, at least in the US, you don't see any other current production .223 really holding a firm market share. While certainly there were other 9mm pistols out when Glock came out with the 17, it had a new twist using polymer when everyone else was using steel or aluminium. They had a unique and quality product that did things better than a lot of other current designs. Not to say that the 17 was the perfection Glock makes it out to be, but it had some advantages over the then current market. Polymer rifles have been made in .223. Metal rifles have been made. Piston rifles have been made. High quality, highly reliable, highly accurate, mildly priced rifles have been made. Unless a new company can capitalize on such a shift as when Glock introduced a quality composite pistol in an all metal world, I don't see another .223 rifle doing much to slow the sales of the AR based rifle. Maybe if the SCAR, ACR, or XCR were priced at $850 we would see them compete, but it doesn't seem like that will happen so I don't personally expect to see the AR system lose much market share to another design.
I like your idea. Personally, I'd like to see a seriously revised AK that does away with the removable dust cover in favor of a permanently mounted rail, but still keeps the parts count down to an absolute minimum and still uses a stamped receiver.
I can live with the rest of the AK's deficiencies, but optics mounting will always be third rate so long as it field strips by removing the top cover. To me that's a real problem.
If a halfway decent manufacturer, say Izhmash, were to make something like this and retail it for under $800, I would be all over it.
I can live with the rest of the AK's deficiencies, but optics mounting will always be third rate so long as it field strips by removing the top cover. To me that's a real problem.
If a halfway decent manufacturer, say Izhmash, were to make something like this and retail it for under $800, I would be all over it.
I think I should rename myself "threadkiller" but here goes. Who wants a half plastic, half steel, half _ssed rifle. Plastic guns with steel inserts where needed are not that great. The metal alloys will be with us for a long, long, time. If I could just get my glock 20 with and aluminum frame like my sig 226 40 I would be a happy camper. HA on me.
It's a fine rifle. No complaints really whatsoever. About the only piece that feels like plastic is the forearm when deployed as a bipod, but even that's workable for what it is. The rest is rock solid in hand and on the field. And you're right. It's an AK-AR hybrid of sorts.
I'd say it's a great success. The biggest issues is that Keltec just can't keep the two gerbils running their manufacturing lines running fast enough to keep up with demand.
WardenWolf
member
I'm going to be frank: Glock has enough problems with high-pressure pistol rounds, and their .40 caliber pistols are operating right on the edge of what's safe. It doesn't take much to push a .40 caliber Glock over the edge and cause a kaboom. Would you REALLY want them designing a .223 weapon? I REALLY wouldn't want to have a polymer rifle receiver blow up in my freaking face while I'm leaning over it to sight. The AR-15's are metal and blow out the magwell for good reason. Crap happens. On a pistol, it usually just causes some cuts and stitches. On a rifle, it can be fatal or cost an eye.
OP
OP
StrikeFire83
Member
^ Yeah, okay, all .40 Glocks kaboom in people's hands...in fact, 25% of them are known to blow up within 1,000 rounds.*
Honestly, for every picture you can show me of a blown up fortay cal glock I can show you a picture of a blown up 1911, a blown up Sig, and a blown up HK. Weak sauce.
*89% of quoted statistics are made up on the spot.
Honestly, for every picture you can show me of a blown up fortay cal glock I can show you a picture of a blown up 1911, a blown up Sig, and a blown up HK. Weak sauce.
*89% of quoted statistics are made up on the spot.
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StrikeFire83
Member
Panzercat, thanks for the first hand input on the Kel-Tec. Seems like they need to stop coming out with new designs and produce what they already have...but in quantity.
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Exactly. nothing wrong with their firearms save the fact that Keltec has a terminal case of attention deficit disorder 
Oh yeah. The famous torture test video.
Oh yeah. The famous torture test video.
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Maple_City_Woodsman
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forget the .223 carbine - I'd like to see a Glock PCC.
They could even use some of their existing tooling and parts if they modeled them after the Buckmark type rifle.
They could even use some of their existing tooling and parts if they modeled them after the Buckmark type rifle.
I'm sure they could, but the problem is this:
Glock's big thing is military and police contracts. If they can sell a few to American pistol shooters, it's just a little bit of gravy on the side.
There is no reason for Glock to design a 5.56 carbine just for this incidental sliver of the market.
The best we can realistically hope for is for Glock to build a service rifle that sees widespread international adoption. If that happened, then semiauto versions would filter down to us. That's pretty much our only hope at this point, and is quite a bit more of stretch.
Glock's big thing is military and police contracts. If they can sell a few to American pistol shooters, it's just a little bit of gravy on the side.
There is no reason for Glock to design a 5.56 carbine just for this incidental sliver of the market.
The best we can realistically hope for is for Glock to build a service rifle that sees widespread international adoption. If that happened, then semiauto versions would filter down to us. That's pretty much our only hope at this point, and is quite a bit more of stretch.
Zerodefect
member
1.) What would make a Glock carbine better?
2.) Could it compete with the AR15?
3.) Is there a market big enough for this weapon?
I don't think Austrians can answer these questions. Without something huge that would set it apart from the others, it would flop.
A lightweight Masada with a Glock name would sell like a hot cake. When the Masada was nuetered down into the ACR it flopped. And Flopped hard, becuase it has nothing better to offer than the AR's we allready have.
2.) Could it compete with the AR15?
3.) Is there a market big enough for this weapon?
I don't think Austrians can answer these questions. Without something huge that would set it apart from the others, it would flop.
A lightweight Masada with a Glock name would sell like a hot cake. When the Masada was nuetered down into the ACR it flopped. And Flopped hard, becuase it has nothing better to offer than the AR's we allready have.
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