Win M70 pre 64 time to upgrade scope

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RMC51

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Ok Guys,
I got the ARs scoped up, got the M1A almost scoped up( I have the mount and scope, just have to mount it) now its time to go back to this Winchester Model 70 30-06 pre 64 1958. Before you guys hyperventilate. It’s a shooter, and it works very well, but it is not a show gun! This is Grandpa’s rifle that went to the woods every year for 30-40 years and got a deer almost every year.

I have on it a Weaver V9-B 3-9AO El Paso. This (30-06) can reach out farther then this 3-9? What do you guys think I should put on it? I would like to mount something that is pretty strong. Maybe (5-20), (6-24), (8.5-32).

I believe I will have to stay with a 1”tube. I have Millet see thru 1” rings on it now. So I can use the irons for up close. I think I will have trouble finding rings and mounts for a 30mm that will fit on this?

I think I have covered everything?

Ok I’m sitting down, I’m braced in my chair, I’m ready. Bring it on.
 
If you hunt with it, you have a proven scope that has worked apparently very well for the past 30-40 years. Why change? Something wrong with it? Most rifles I have seen, have a 3 - 9 on it. Target rifles are a different story.
 
One of the better scopes ever made IMHO . Howsomever with out the serial number first digits it may not be a PRE 64 Model 70 at all. The Super Grades were made up to present with the Pre 64 Style action, so no doubt it is a wonderful gun. Think I'd lose the high see thru rings and put on Warne Maxima bases and use 1" quick release Maxima Medium rings.The you keep things low, quick detachable and bullet proof milled steel re index , for relatively cheap if you shop. The old steel Elpaso weavers made in the 70s and early 80s were extremely robust and good optically, they seem to weather time well also unlike Redfields for instance.
 
High power scopes sacrifice field of view. A 3-9 on an'06 is a pretty classic and effectiver combination. A nicer scope with better optics will set you back 500 or so and will give a nice image and tight adjustments. nothing wrong with the gun as it is. My dad left me his rem 700 '06 with a post and crosshair 2 3/4 widefield that's really a poor scope but I can shoot that gun like no other so it stays on, plus it was his gun and that means something to me. it's taken alot of venison. I own far nicer guns but this one goes out the most, and my 14 year old has taken a liking to it...
 
I really like my pre 64 Model 70 Winchesters. I don't, however, agree with having see through scope mounts on one because I would never find a need to use the original open sights. With a variable scope with around 4 power on the bottom end the open sights aren't needed. The best looking scope mounts on the market for a Model 70 are Leupold dual dovetail. Both the front base and the rear base use rings that turn a quarter turn into the base and lock securely. Both 1 inch or 30MM rings are available for the bases. Also, the matt finish looks best for a Model 70. I personally prefer a 30MM tube because the eye relief is longer and the sight picture is larger and very clear. For the money, a Leupold European is great for about $450 in either 3 to 9 or 4 to 12 power. Even better, if you want a top end scope is a Leupold M3 which is about $900 in 3.5 to 10 power. BW
 
Gordon said:
One of the better scopes ever made IMHO . Howsomever with out the serial number first digits it may not be a PRE 64 Model 70 at all. The Super Grades were made up to present with the Pre 64 Style action, so no doubt it is a wonderful gun. Think I'd lose the high see thru rings and put on Warne Maxima bases and use 1" quick release Maxima Medium rings.The you keep things low, quick detachable and bullet proof milled steel re index , for relatively cheap if you shop. The old steel Elpaso weavers made in the 70s and early 80s were extremely robust and good optically, they seem to weather time well also unlike Redfields for instance.
Click to expand...

Winchester looked it up for me. they said 1958
SN #446xxx

I had the scope mounted with the see thru, it had old weaver side flip over mounts on it when I got it.

I have AR15's 5.56 for 100-300yds. M1A .308 for 300-600yds and this 30.06 for 600+ I think these are correct est. ???

This V9-B 3-9 is not very good out at 500yds, but the gun and the round will work out at 600-900yds???? correct?

The guy that gave me the rifle almost always came back with deer but I dont think he was making 300yds+ shots with it.

The 30-06 ammo is expensive good Federal, Hornady is $20-$45+ per box, so once I have this dialed in it will not be used that much.

I think I’m going to put something big on this (8.5-32) if I can keep the see thru rings I will have the iron sights also, those are good at 100yds

what is Howsomever?
 
shooter5907 said:
I really like my pre 64 Model 70 Winchesters. I don't, however, agree with having see through scope mounts on one because I would never find a need to use the original open sights. With a variable scope with around 4 power on the bottom end the open sights aren't needed. The best looking scope mounts on the market for a Model 70 are Leupold dual dovetail. Both the front base and the rear base use rings that turn a quarter turn into the base and lock securely. Both 1 inch or 30MM rings are available for the bases. Also, the matt finish looks best for a Model 70. I personally prefer a 30MM tube because the eye relief is longer and the sight picture is larger and very clear. For the money, a Leupold European is great for about $450 in either 3 to 9 or 4 to 12 power. Even better, if you want a top end scope is a Leupold M3 which is about $900 in 3.5 to 10 power. BW
Click to expand...

I seem to be stuck in no-mans land, I would like to keep the see thru so I have the the iron sights and I would like to put something like a Leupold Mark 4 LR/T8.5-25 but everything is 30mm now. I'm still looking around.
 
Ditch the see thru mounts and put Leupold bases and rings 1" then get a Swarovski Z3 3-12X50 and go hunting.:eek:
 
What are you trying to accomplish with the rifle? Are you wanting to use it for hunting or long range target shooting?

For hunting I'd ditch the see through rings and take a look at something like the new Leupold VX6 2-10x scopes. You will have lower power for close in shots in brush or woods and a highish power for open country shots.

If you want a long range target rifle I'd put this one back in the safe and use the M1A. I mean you could get a new high power scope and a new target stock but the M1A will do pretty much everything a 30-06 will. 900y shots are easy on the internet.

If you want a 1000y rifle go here:
http://www.accuracyinternational.com/
 
rmc51, you're missing the point about the see through mounts. If you use the see through mounts you're placing the line of sight so high above the stock that it's a detriment to accuracy and long range shooting. Why would you buy a long range scope and then hamper your ability to shoot long range with the see through mounts? By having the scope mounted low over the receiver you are able to put pressure on the stock with your cheek which helps hold the rifle still during the shot sequence. BW
 
FWIW; There is an outfit that will go through your Weaver 3x-9x and recharge it with nitrogen and put new seals ect.

I would also put the swing over Weaver Rings back on it. These were/are some of the few "moveable" mounts that WILL go back to orignial zero.

Most all of the "see-through" mounts are a soft aluminum and will allow zero to drift. Hence you replaced a "good" set of mounts with "junk"....imo.

My younger brother has a pre-'64 Mod-70featherweight. He has the Leupold rings that match the finish and finally, after several ruined hunts from "cruddy" scopes put a Leupold "Rifleman" scope on his. The matte finish matches the finish on the reciever and is an attractive and effective rig "now"...

The Mod-70 "as-is" as your ancestor wisely knew, was/is a superlative big-game hunting rifle. As such I would consider anything more than a 3x-9x to be "over the top". Most of my rifles, even a .257wby and .300RUM wear nothing more powerful than a 3x-10x scope as they are "big-game" rifles.... The levers wear a 1.5-5x or 2x-7x... I've even shot prararie dogs to 400+yds with a 2x-7x Leupold.... on a .257Roberts. Hence, 9x is more than enough for a '06 "hunting" rifle. In the case of your rifle, If I didn't put the Weaver scope and rings back on it, I'd get a Weaver 4x Classic and a set of Leupold "Weaver style" base and rings and call it good.

I have/could/would do some amazing things with that rifle with "just" a 4x scope.......
My '06 is a 6lb Colt Lt.Rifle with a 2x-8x Burris scope on it. It looks like it "grew" there. A friend took a nice 38" 4pt (Western count) muley with it at a "lased" 385yds. He "missed" the first shot, as he didn't believe me when I said "hold on the top of his back". He held ~18" high, and shot over the deer....! Second shot, he held as I told him and broke the deers back.
He had left the scope on 2x !!!!
enough said....
 
You're getting good advice...if you're going to hunt with this rifle, a 3X9 is plenty, and the see-through mounts are unnecessary.
 
I like a 4-14 on a higher powered rifle. I also like a ballistic reticle of some kind. The Leupold Boone and Crocket is good, so are some of the Kahles. There are many more but if you intend to shoot past 300 yards having one may help.
 
shooter5907 said:
rmc51, you're missing the point about the see through mounts. If you use the see through mounts you're placing the line of sight so high above the stock that it's a detriment to accuracy and long range shooting. Why would you buy a long range scope and then hamper your ability to shoot long range with the see through mounts? By having the scope mounted low over the receiver you are able to put pressure on the stock with your cheek which helps hold the rifle still during the shot sequence. BW
Click to expand...

Nobody explained it like that, now I understand. All I got was "get rid of the see thru's, because I said so" Thank you, Shooter5907. I will start looking at this without the see thru's

GooseGestapo said:
FWIW; There is an outfit that will go through your Weaver 3x-9x and recharge it with nitrogen and put new seals ect.

I would also put the swing over Weaver Rings back on it. These were/are some of the few "moveable" mounts that WILL go back to orignial zero.

Most all of the "see-through" mounts are a soft aluminum and will allow zero to drift. Hence you replaced a "good" set of mounts with "junk"....imo.
Click to expand...


When I got this it had a old 4x scope with a straight tube and the scope was messed up inside (rust). The flip over weaver rings are very low and this Weaver V9-B was resting on the barrel at the front objective with the flipover mount. that is why I started with the high see thru's. Who is FWIW. This V9-B is in very good sharp, I do not think that it needs to be regased, but I will check on it.

Gus McCrae said:
If you want a long range target rifle I'd put this one back in the safe and use the M1A. I mean you could get a new high power scope and a new target stock but the M1A will do pretty much everything a 30-06 will. 900y shots are easy on the internet.
Click to expand...

When I look up the stats on the 308 and the 30-06, I think it said that the 06 was flater and longer flight pattern then the 308 ????

Thank you guys for taking the time to talk to me about this. I am learning
 
I would leave the Weaver scope on it, unless it is broken, and put the Weaver tip off rings back on the rifle if you like to use your irons for close up moving targets. I find the Tip Offs to return to zero very well, maybe not good enough for a BR gun but plenty good for a light weight hunting rifle.

I don't trust glass or batteries in the field either. I've had too many scopes fail on me over the years.
win70e.jpg
 
Gus McCrae said:
What are you trying to accomplish with the rifle? Are you wanting to use it for hunting or long range target shooting?
Click to expand...

Sorry I forgot to address this question:

Yes,

I guy that I have been introduced to has a farm/ranch up by the Florida border. I have been invited to go up there to shoot. They have up there, wild hog problems. I have been told that an AR 556 is not always enough for these little piggy’s so;

I now have the AR’s set up with ACOG’s TA31, TA01nsn. The M1A will be mounted with a TA01B just got the GDI G1-OSM mount Thursday and if these are not enough, out comes the 06. I am going to be prepared for these little piggy’s, no matter what it takes.

I’m not sure why XM855 5.56 62gr. green tips would not be enough to take down these hogs, but if I have to go and find a M1A1 tank, I will get one. I WANT THOSE LITTLE PIGGY”S. Sorry

That is what I am up to.

Again Thanks Guys for the help and advice. I'm listen to you, I just didn’t understand why.
 
Heck I used a 45-70 for the Hog I took in TX with Iron sights. How long are the typical shots on his place? A high power scope may be way over power for the area. I would stick with your 3-9 and call it a day. I think you'll be very surprised at the shots you can take with a 9x scope.
 
I have a 10x steel tube Weaver on my 243 that I built back in the 60s. It works just fine for any distance I wish to shoot. I have a Weaver 2-7x wideview on my Remington 700 and it works just fine at any distance I wish to shoot. An increase in magnification will not overcome a lack of shooting skills at long range. I see it all the time at the range. Stick with the 3-9x scope and learn to shoot it. What do you expect to shoot at 500 yards? chris3
 
Hey Vern, ole Jack O'Connor of gun editor fame said in his writings that a fixed power 4 power was all that was needed for most big game hunting. I followed his writings and in my earlier years everything I shot had 4 power scopes. About 1985 I shot at a big whitetail buck in the late dusk and although I saw him kick his back legs high which indicated a hit I lost the animal. I realized that to better see the animals at long distances in low light I needed a better scope. I hunt in open country and now I carry my variable scope on 6 power and consistently shift to 10 for a long shot. I've only missed one deer in the past 10 years and that was a 250 yard shot on a moving deer. The learning process has never stopped. BW
 
My dad hunted in Etheopia in the '40s. He used a 99 Savage with a Weaver K2.5 and killed literally hundreds of head of big game (he was there for two years, heading up an oil exploration crew.) I have two centerfire rifles, a 6.5 Swede and a .30-06 Ruger M77 push safety, with K2.5s. I have two additional centerfire rifles with 4X scopes, my pre-64 Model 70 in .30-06 and Bigfoot Wallace, my custion '03 Springfield in .35 Brown-Whelen.

I've been hunting over 50 years and never needed anything more -- although I have used variables, they were never moved off the lowest setting.
 
Hey Vern, I completely undersand your logic. Clint Eastwood in the movie Josey Wales said wanted something that gave him an edge. For shots on game up to 200 yards there is nothing better for me than a Leupold M8 4 power. But with the hunting conditions today where there is so much money, time and long distances traveled and the scarsity of trophy animals I also want to have advantages. A variable power scope can make the difference between being successful and driving home with an empty Jeep. BW
 
Vern, with the long range optics and lazer rangefinders that are available today there is no more guessing. The first thing I do when I get to my stand is range several objects in my field of view to know the shooting distances before the animals arrive. When I shoot an animal I check the range to know the shooting distance. If you're not shooting more than 150 yards it don't make any difference. BW
 
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