Tin Foil Hat Topic: Buying "under the table".

Discussing logically:

I don't worry about buying on or off a 4473, I just look for a good deal. I don't think it matters. Here's why: (Note, I don't think this is actually, reasonably going to happen. We're deep in fiction territory here)

If the US government start's coming door to door for weapons, crossed checked against 4473's our country is dead. That's the point that we need to take up those weapons and remove that government. There's no point in turning most weapons over to the troops, and saving a hold out. What, at that point, are you saving it for? There's someone on here's sig line that says, in response (I assume) to the omnipresent boating accident and questions like this: If it's time to bury your guns, it's time to use them. And they're right. At the hypothetical you're proposing, don't hide one or two guns, start shooting. The revolution is here at that point. So given all that, what do I care if the troops that knock on my door have a list of what's about to shoot at them?

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what he said!!!

I don't think they would have to fight to get most gun away from people because as some have already said, just keep raising the price of Ammo and tax onthe gun itself,
plus there will be really tight new laws to make sure most people would give up their guns, lets face it if it could get you 20 years prison just for owning one or life for using it, 90% will just give up..

...lets face it if it could get you 20 years prison just for owning one or life for using it, 90% will just give up.

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That's the heart of the matter and probably reality. Of course, the "hunting" rifles and shotguns would be excluded.

edit by hgn

The one time the "paper trail" is useful is if your gun is ever stolen and recovered or for whatever reason it gets locked up in the evidence locker. They are going to want proof of ownership for you to be able to get your gun back. So if you do a FTF buy/sale/trade at least get a bill of sale that includes the date and serial number for your records purpose. If the jackboot ninjas come knocking throw the paperwork in the fire and claim all your firearms were lost at sea in a tragic boating accident.

In CT it's not required to disclose the sale of long guns, nor is it required to register them. I obtain a bill of sale with the information relevant to the rifle and parties involved, and that's that.

If it comes to confiscating guns then this country is down the crapper anyhow and I don't and won't live in a socialist environment! The phrase " you can pry my weapons from my cold dead hands " takes on a real clear meaning.

Most gun owners I know would politely but firmly ask you to leave their premises if you showed up at their door wearing a tinfoil hat with an antenna made of paperclips trailing down your back not matter how much you might offer them for the chance to a firearm "off the books"!

back 5 or more years ago in Connecticut, the State Police sent out letters to gun owners threatening that they had 14 days to prove what they had in their possession. included with the letter was a list of what they said we had. lots of panic especially as many people believed that their was no gun registration in CT cause thats what those in power always told the media.

turned out that the lists the state had, had many errors (transfers not recorded mostly) and it was up to the individuals to prove they did not still own a great many items. eventually we the ones threatened, started noticing gaps in the dates and the state came clean ( well, they explained) that a disk got wiped and to cover their blunders, they tried (successfully) the strong arm tactic of threating owners with felonies.

years later, all is still good in Corrupticut...registration lives.

and 'we' found out that even though there is no required paper work on the sale of black powder items, stores were writting up and sending in the transfer forms after the purchaser left the store anyways. they all ( all i am aware of) lied to the customers. though embarrassing, the store owners never apologized to anyone i am aware of.

If you believe Dick Morris, he claims that the UN Small Arms Treaty (being negotiated by Hillary and Obama) would in fact affect US citizens and would be a back door approach to registration in the US. The approval of the treaty would require registration in order for the US Government to comply and restrict the export of small arms outside our boundaries. That is the first step... So, make of that what you want to.

In PA, there is a registry maintained by the State Police and they claim that it is not registration because it is just a data base.

22-rimfire said:

Not trying to be flippant, but if the government tries to confiscate guns in the manner the op suggested, getting proper documentation from citizens will be the least of their worries.

I have, however thought of this scenario. What are they going to do ? Arrest all the people who say they don't have documentation for guns they sold decades ago? Does the government actually still have a record of the first gun I bought as a teenager over 35 years ago? Or actually believe I still possess it? I rather doubt it.

On the other hand, folks may want to think twice about creating a paper trail for firearms they've inherited (informally) or purchased from private parties without documentation. I'm talking mostly about having them insured or keeping repair receipts.

It's hard to know just how totalitarian our government will end up being, if at all.

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What they would probably do is first require registration. After a period of time where registration is mandatory, if you are found to be in possession of a gun that you don't have paperwork for, you go to jail.

That means, post-registration, that you need to put them on paper, seriously risk facing legal consequences, or at the very least stop actually using the un-registered gun (no carrying it, toting it around in your car, taking it out shooting, having it in your home or business, etc). Basically bury it somewhere and never use it again.


A lot of you guys are already in the registration phase, especially for handguns. States like Pennsylvania and Michigan...handgun registration. And I'm sure there are plenty of others as well. New York...yeah, you're already halfway screwed there.

The first sign of registration/confiscation will be the regulation of ammunition and reloading supplies.

copy & past above was partial......

with a restraining order, the police come to your home with a list of every gun you have bought and sold to confiscate them, or sometimes you are given a day to get them out of your hands ( requires 4473's). my neighbor is a shooting buddy and his ex went vicious on him, got a RO and thats how i ended up holding his stuff for over a year. and thats how we discovered the failure to enter sales still is happening; more than 1/2 of what they said he had, he still had. and he had to sigh some 'felony if your lying' statements to appease the court.
than the policeman happens to say, if he had just left them at a friend before they showed up, no transfers would have been necessary.
how can we respect a system that allows the police to play loose like that?

SpentCasing said:

How did the post-Katrina confiscations go down? Were old 4473 forms checked and houses were searched? Did they go door to door "asking"? Or did they just send jack-boot thugs to perform illegal searches of all homes like Fallujah?

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That is exactly what they did. George w. bush sent blackwater mercenaries in with no badges, no name tags, m4's, and no accountability. And yes they were kicking doors in and searching for people who wanted to be left alone on their own property. I have a number of friends who kindly asked to be left alone, to no avail. Fortunately one of them is a foul mouthed old lady who was able to shame a few of them into behaving before they "evacuated" her from her house where she was comfortably sitting on high ground above the floodwaters.

Outsourcing government work to blackwater and their ilk is Crony capitalism and totalitarianism run amok. Their right to earn profits at the expense of the general public is greater than all of your constitutional rights combined.

anchorman said:

That is exactly what they did. George w. bush sent blackwater mercenaries in with no badges, no name tags, m4's, and no accountability. And yes they were kicking doors in and searching for people who wanted to be left alone on their own property. I have a number of friends who kindly asked to be left alone, to no avail. Fortunately one of them is a foul mouthed old lady who was able to shame a few of them into behaving before they "evacuated" her from her house where she was comfortably sitting on high ground above the floodwaters.

Outsourcing government work to blackwater and their ilk is Crony capitalism and totalitarianism run amok. Their right to earn profits at the expense of the general public is greater than all of your constitutional rights combined.

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Pretty sure you're wrong there pal - If I'm not mistaken it was NOPD and National Guard doing the confiscating along with a few deputized members of other sheriff and police departments that had volunteered to "help keep the peace".

Lets not try and make this a political rant.

I know the most popular video was LEO tackling the little old lady. Not blackwater.

AEA said:

The first sign of registration/confiscation will be the regulation of ammunition and reloading supplies.

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I'm sorry, but we are way past the "first sign of registration". We have states that already have mandatory registration of all firearms.

We are one Supreme Court Justice away from having confiscation become a likely reality...

Rail Driver said:

Lets not try and make this a political rant.

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BWAHAHAHAHAHA! that is funny. this whole thing is one big political rant.

I'm just going on what my friend was telling me she saw, men without badges or ID, driving around in black vehicles, ramming down locked doors with railroad ties in order to "save" people who were hiding from them intentionally. would you come to the door and say hello if the jackbooted thugs were knocking it down? Sure, no I.D. no badge, it's hard to say who they were, but they definitely weren't uniformed police or national guard.

The black helicopters came, but they turned out to be black suburbans, at the behest of George W. Bush. This isn't me trying to be political, it's me trying to point out the crazy in some people's arguments, thinking the current administration is somehow 1000x more evil than the last because they think that this one's a socialist, and this one is scarry and going to take our guns. Under the watch of a president who was supposed to be Grade AAA rated from the NRA, they came and they illegally confiscated people's guns. Yet no one cried that george bush was the antichrist... I don't care what your politics are, but at least be consistent in how they are applied. George Bush (both of them) were gun grabbers. Obama has done nothing of the sort. Even if he secretly is, he's too smart politically to make an issue of it, since he knows it is a non-starter... I don't like obama for a number of reasons I won't go in to, same as I don't like george bush for a number of reasons I won't go in to, so Let's look at evidence and actual occurrences, not at fantasy land stuff here, and focus out attentions on the real threats to our liberties, which is totalitarian leaning types of all political stripes.

I hear what you'r saying, but your words don't make sense

I'm not trying to instigate anything here, but if "THEY" came around to strip you of your constitutionally guaranteed right to bear arms, a right which, beyond all others, is the literal foundation of this entire country (American Revolution,) then would you peacefully give up your arms?

I have both registered and unregistered weapons, but I fail to see how this is even a relevant quandary in the eyes of the informed. Ammunition prices will go up, it is the only way guns will stay legal, if you haven't noticed that trend then you should pay better attention to recent history (last few decades.)

Personally, I would honestly rather be a criminal with the freedom to protect myself using the most efficient arms available, then a citizen stripped of his right to personal defense using modern technology. However, I pray it never comes to that.

longstandingletdown said:

However, I pray it never comes to that.

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Don't just pray, do something... celebrate "teach a liberal to shoot day". It is a great holiday, because you can celebrate it every day. The best way to ensure that the second amendment is not ignored our outright gotten rid of is to take your friends who are scared of guns and people who own them, and teach them firearm safety while introducing them to the joys of shooting.

Theres just too many to keep track of, from 1998 to 2009 there was over 110,000,000 NICS background checks to purchase firearms. Just the logistics of storing that much information are crazy.

http://cdn.ammoland.com/files/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/nics-background-check-2009.jpg

I'm not worried, as the general consensus above states, if its time to bury your guns its time to use them.

Please dont make me use the frog and boiling water analogy please.
If you think the government or some crony is going to go house to house and kick down doors to get your guns you have a screw loose.
With the cost of fuel you can be certain they will have you deliver them to a disposal facility on your nickle. Do we even know how much that many guns weigh. How's the mileage on a 6x6 these days.
Told ya I had to adjust the chinstrap on my foil headware.
T

I have noticed if I use a credit card to buy ammo I have to input my zip code but not when I use it to but house hold items. Anyone know what the deal with that is.

Is anyone selling the guaranteed high speed tin foil hats my homemade ones don't seem to be working?

Grmlin: Where are you referring to?