Question for FFLs

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Twiki357

Twiki357

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This is just an inquiring minds what to know type of question. Who can or is required to sign a 4473 for a gun sale or FFL transfer? The 4473 in all of the gun shops that I have had transactions with were signed by whatever clerk has handled the sale or transfer. So I’m curious if the FFL is for the store and an employee is acting as an agent for the store FFL or is everyone working in a gun store required to have their own FFL?

Also, how would this apply to a “Kitchen table” FFL when the individual is not immediately available, could a spouse handle a transfer?

I am not an FFL, but have always been curious since there seem to be a number of individuals in my area who do transfers for a lot smaller fee than the shops.
 
Twiki357 said:
This is just an inquiring minds what to know type of question. Who can or is required to sign a 4473 for a gun sale or FFL transfer? The 4473 in all of the gun shops that I have had transactions with were signed by whatever clerk has handled the sale or transfer. So I’m curious if the FFL is for the store and an employee is acting as an agent for the store FFL or is everyone working in a gun store required to have their own FFL?

Also, how would this apply to a “Kitchen table” FFL when the individual is not immediately available, could a spouse handle a transfer?

I am not an FFL, but have always been curious since there seem to be a number of individuals in my area who do transfers for a lot smaller fee than the shops.
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It will depend on how the business is set-up, and who is listed as authorized.

I have an 01 FFL and am a sole-proprietor, therefore I and I alone can sign the FFL as transferor, my wife cant ( and has zero interest in being authorized to do so, which is fine with me.. )

A partnership, or corporation of one flavor or another will/can list employees who are authorized to sign the 4473's
 
newfalguy101 It will depend on how the business is set-up, and who is listed as authorized. I have an 01 FFL and am a sole-proprietor, therefore I and I alone can sign the FFL as transferor, my wife cant ( and has zero interest in being authorized to do so, which is fine with me.. )
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You are confusing a "responsible person" with those who can sign the 4473.
ATF derives its interpretation of the term "responsible person" from 18 U.S.C. § 923(d)(1)(B), to mean an individual who has the power to direct the management and policies of the business entity for which the Federal firearms license is being applied.

Persons who a business authorizes to sign as "transferor/seller are not necessarily RP's. Cabelas and WalMart clerks most certainly are not RP's.


A partnership, or corporation of one flavor or another will/can list employees who are authorized to sign the 4473's
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So can a sole proprietor.;) But there is no "list" for such persons....that's a business decision that the licensee or another responsible person makes.
 
Do the employees for the FFL/Gun Store have to licensed by the State Police?

For what it is worth, if you work for a gun store in New Jersey. You are required to get a permit called "Employee of Firearm Dealer License" and that means getting fingerprinted and submitting to a mental health background check as well as a 'municipal police records check'.

Here is the application (looks almost like a 4473).
http://www.njsp.org/firearms/pdf/sp-641.pdf

And the requirements

"INITIAL WHOLESALE EMPLOYEE LICENSE


An employee who has not previously been issued a Wholesale Employee License must complete the following:

One (1) Application for Employee of Firearm Dealer License


Fee- A single $5.00 check or money order made payable to Division of State Police and attached to the completed employee application.

One (1) Consent for Mental Health Records Search (complete part one only and sign at the X.) Ensure the witness is 18 years of age or older.

One (1) Municipal Police Records Check (complete part one & two only) Your application will not be processed without this form.

In addition to the two forms above the applicant will have to be fingerprinted if he/she does not have a New Jersey Firearms Purchaser's Identification Card or has not been fingerprinted as a firearms applicant. The IdentoGO by MorophoTrust Form will be utilized."

http://www.njsp.org/firearms/pdf/20141007_wholesaleinit_instruct.pdf
.
 
I used to be a dealer in N.J. and Midwest knows his stuff. A bunch of big
stores such as Wally World and a few others got shut down because the
State Police found out that sales were being made by clerks with no license
to sell guns.

Zeke
 
So the takeaway apparently is that individual states can impose restrictions in addition to the BATFE requirements? No surprise here.
 
So the takeaway apparently is that individual states can impose restrictions in addition to the BATFE requirements? No surprise here.
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Not really. State restrictions are a separate issue. They might regulate who can work in a gun store, and might even have their own additional forms to fill out at purchase, but they have no say in how a federal form 4473 is filled out, or who can sign it.
 
TimSr said:
Not really. State restrictions are a separate issue. They might regulate who can work in a gun store, and might even have their own additional forms to fill out at purchase, but they have no say in how a federal form 4473 is filled out, or who can sign it.
Click to expand...

Yes, correct. My post was brief and in response to Midwest's info about gun store employees in NJ. I understand the 4473 is stand alone and inviolate and the requirement for licensing employees has nothing to do with who can sign the form. Thanks for the clarification.
 
May be getting a bit off track, but does Oregon have the right to demand thumbprins on the back of the the 4473, or should they be using a separate form? Or what I'm asking is if a State can ask a seller to collect more information from a buyer than required by Federal law and include that info on a Federal form.
 
May be getting a bit off track, but does Oregon have the right to demand thumbprins on the back of the the 4473, or should they be using a separate form?
Click to expand...

No more than the Oregon State Dept. of Taxation has a right to require you to add information to your Federal IRS 1040.
 
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