the new tactical shotguns...

If you do a little searching on YouTube you'll discover problems with the SRM 1216.

The SRM is an auto-loader, and I think that puts it in another category.

I don't think the UTS has gotten into people's hands to test...

IMO the best bang for the buck is the Mossberg 930.


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This: http://www.stoegerindustries.com/firearms/stoeger-double-defense.php

I'm sticking with the tried and true for over 50 year Mossberg 500 platform. I'd feel just as comfortable with the Rem 870 platform as well. I seriously doubt anything new will come along in my lifetime and change my mind.

I would be shocked if there was anyone here that had kind of meaningful trigger time all three.

The Kel tec from what I can gather appears to be typical kel tec, nigh unto impossible to find and of relatively low quality (yes I own kel tecs).

The UTS-15 is still vaporware. Atlantic was claiming availability in July. I guess the still have a couple weeks to hit that date.


Basically they are three totally unproven guns. Two of which you'd be hard pressed to buy if you wanted to. I am pleased that the UTS-15 looks to be a real improvement over KSG. The only advantage the KSG offers is legality in anti gun Democrat controlled states like CA.

Some searching online and I couldn't find a place to buy any of them so it seem kind of a moot debate if I can't even buy one.

On paper I like the UTS-15 the best.

I remember the UTS distributor or importer or whatever had 20 for sale on GB s few weeks back, ready to ship (or that's what their ad claimed).

Looks like they have 40 more ready.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=296934550

People have been able to get the SRM 1216 and from the feedback that I've read - the SRM 1216 has problems feeding. Hopefully SRM will get the problems ironed out.

The MOA on it is unique and would, IMO require a lot of training with it. You'd really have to train to turn that mag. You also have to train yourself to turn it in only one direction - since it can be turned both ways.

When I watch the You-Tube videos of new shooters with it, you can almost see the wheels turning in their heads - the mag runs dry, they lift their head from the stock, sort of "What the...?" then they realize they have to turn the magazine, and they do, then they commence shooting again.

I'm sure it can be overcome with training

I'm not sure training up on the SRM can be done cheaply.

With the UTS - it's pretty conventional, when you run it dry, you've run it dry, But the difference between the two is you're going to get 4 shots with the SRM 1216 and then you have to take action to reload. With the UTS you have 15 uninterupted shots.

I don't see these weapons being suitable for police or military applications. There are so many shotguns that are quite adequate the officers can use with the basic training the received with their current weapons.

Other than situations where officers are trying to shoot down a block wall, I don't see higher ammo capacity as a huge advantage. In most tactical situations the shooter has time to slip a few shells in the magazine. Most experienced shooters will top off the magazine instinctively.

I know this is not suppossed to be a thread about Mossberg / Remington / Bennelli et all...

But I was just thinking, I'll bet you can get 8 rounds on target quicker with the 930 SPX than any of these three shotguns.

9 rounds if you ghost load it...

What about 10 rounds, Count?

If you do not turn the magazine in the SRM prior to firing the 4th round, would you need to manually load the first round from the next tube? It's an interesting idea, and certainly more compact than a Saiga with a 20-round drum, but I think that if you need a shotgun for police/combat use, you want a pump-action so you can use special rounds without worry.
A civilian has no need for those special rounds, but I think at that price range, an AR-15 would offer a much better platform than a shotgun. More support for it and a much simpler MOA. If capacity is required, the AR beats the SRM or the Saiga by far, and reloads are easier.

The Kel-Tec I've heard has had some serious QC issues. I do like the look of the UTS-15 - especially if you alternate magazine tubes (no requirement to manually swap at that point) but I still think at that point, an AR would serve better.

Here is how I've seen the SRM work, if I'm wrong I'm sure someone will point it out.

After the last shot in a tube is fired the bolt locks back. Rotating the magazine will feed a round from the fresh tube and release the bolt.

I am pretty sure I've seen people on YouTube manually loading a shell with an empty tube presented. If an empty tube is presented, the bolt will lock back with each shot, so load a shell, release the bolt, pull the trigger, repeat...

I agree with Sheepdog.

I can't see myself using those compared to a mossy or remmy but YMMV. Maybe I'm just too old?

How long has the UTS shotgun been out on the market? How reliable does it seem?

I keep hearing gun stores talking about buying up several of them at discounts to sell them for 1200

AA12 ala "The Expendables"

Othewise, for mere mortals like us (known as non-NFA folk) the Mossberg500 or Rem870 will do. Or maybe the Benelli M4. Nothing like working your own action

I prefer to let others do the pay-for-the-privilege beta testing, myself. I'll stick to what I'm familiar with for the time being, old stuck-in-the-mud that I am.

Now, if one of those manufacturers wanted some reasonably objective feedback, and were willing to supply a shotgun and quantities of ammunition...

I asked the Gunsite instructors earlier this month if anyone had gone through a shotgun class yet with a KSG. No one had. That will be a good test, IMO, but there's no telling when it will happen. My KSG has about 25 slugs through it so far. Not nearly enough to make a judgement, but so far so good.

The one negative thought Cory had about it was the fine motor control necessary to switch mag tubes. In a fight, that fine motor control might not be there for you.

I also learned it is unwise to keep more than one or two shells in a mag tube long-term, since the constant spring pressure will, over time, compress the plastic hulls and cause them to expand and get stuck in the tube. Being new to shotgunning, that was a new revelation to me.

About as tactical as I get is putting a shellholder sleeve on the butt stock of my Mossberg 500. If I have to go to it I am short friends on either side of me.

There was a KSG in my 1-day Shotgun Refresher class with Louis Awerbuck earlier this month. AAR is posted at http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=676207, here's the bit on the KSG-

The KSG was interesting, the first one I've seen for real. I'd say is just too complex for most folks, especially those already accustomed to other shotguns. Not just IMHO, but Louis thinks so too, and he's shot one (I haven't, I just watched when I could in class). Too many controls, too many options (two magazine tubes and a magazine selector to choose between them), just too much to keep track of under pressure. And mainly, the worst thumbs down of all for me from the getgo, it's too hard to load on the fly, since it's a bullpup and the loading port is behind the pistol grip. I had a bullpup for years, a semiauto at that, a High Standard 10-A. Sold it, but bought another example a couple of years ago. Great shotgun - for five rounds. Then forget it, dump it and go to something else.

Same deal with the KSG - if your gunfight is shorter than 15 rounds, and you can remember how to run the gun through a mag change without something bad happening, you're golden.

Louis described the typical mag tube change when under pressure in the KSG from empty tube to loaded tube, and I saw it happen in class:

"CLICK! (bad word) RACKRACK CLICK! (bad word), decide to change mag tubes, push button, try to pull trigger, nothing happens (many bad words), remember you have to pump it again, RACKRACK, BOOM!"

Granted that will probably change as a given shooter gets more familiar with the gun over time and with practice, but it's painful to watch in live fire during a range drill. It adds a whole new dimension to 'floundering.'

Call me crazy

But I still prefer a good old fashioned Pump Action like the 500/590 series of shotguns. Not the crap with the chain saw handles but synthetic stocks would be OK. 18.5 inch smooth bore and an extended Mag tube. Alternate the rounds in the tube for and your good to go.
Pumps seem to cycle better under stress for me and have less to go wrong if the situation is in fact dire and you need reliability.

I think all of these new shotgun designs will have to be improved further, with plenty of real world feedback, before they may be worth starting to consider as a replacement for a more conventional setup.

Like Fred said, and based on what I have read about the KSG, they are too complicated compared to my Ithaca 37s and Rem 870. At age 72 , why change when what I have, has served me so well over the years. Frankly, I can't see a scenario where I would need 14 rounds.