1911 weight/recoil question

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The Good

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hey guys, i'm looking to educate myself on 1911s before i start shopping for one. I've never fired a 1911. I'm experienced with semi autos but i'm far more comfortable with revolvers.

When the economy went to crap i had to sell m semis.. but now i'm looking to fill the void with what i see as the king of all semi autos.

so i'll probably be asking a lot of questions. right now i'm wondering about weight. i got a chance to hold a couple s&W 1911s at bass pro. one was a full' size 5" barrel stainless model and the other was a smaller round butt 4.25" barrel scsndium frame model. both felt really comfortable in my hands, which I was relieved about because my hands are small. obviously the smaller one with the scandium frame was a lot lighter and really comfortable to hold. however, i'm wondering if anyone can give any insight about recoil. i'm not hugely concerned about recoil but i guess i'd like to know how much of a factor recoil even is. the stsndard size stainless says it's 40 oz. while the scandium is 30. would a gun that much lighter make recoil a lot worse? how significant is recoil on a standard sised 1911? i know it's a lot heavier than the guns i'm used to, but i also know the .45 acp is no joke. i'm not he-man, but my strength is about average. i'm a bit week right now temporarily because i'm coming back from a serious illness.. but thats temporary, and the gun will be there when im better.. so i'm asking, if i go with the lightweight model becsuse it feels more comfortable in my hands and i believe it's light weight will make my aim more steady especially during trigger pull, will i end up regretting it when i fire it and the gun hits me in the face? or is 30 or so ounces plenty of weight for managing a .45 acp? im wiling to admit handling heavy recoil isnt my strong point. it doesnt effect m7 accuracy because i dont flinch from anticipation, but you know. thanks in advance for any insight. feel free to correct me on anything i said that's wildly inaccurate
 
Best advice I can give you is to go to a shooting range which rents out pistols for you to try, then make your decision. The 45 ACP is not really a vicious kicker as pistol cartridges go, but a lighter weight/shorter barrel will have more muzzle flip than a full sized steel framed Government model.

For me, and maybe not you, an all steel full sized model works better for me, the weight helps to steady my aim and I shoot more accurately with it.

I have a full sized Gold Cup as well as a 3.5 inch Officers model, and both are pretty accurate. One thing I have noticed is that on the shorter barreled model, I have to bear down a bit more in order to get the groups I like. That I think is mostly because the sights are closer together and small errors in sight alignment are not as easily noticed.
 
It's all subjective I guess... But to me, the recoil on a full sized steel framed 1911 isn't bad at all.

Shrink that down to a 1911 like my Colt CCO, with a 4.25 inch barrel and a slightly smaller alloy frame, and there is a noticeable difference in recoil and muzzle flip. However, it still isn't what I would consider to be bad. Recoil is still quite manageable and shooting it isn't punishing on my hands or wrist.

Even a 3 inch 1911 isn't bad, but there's a decent amount of muzzle flip. Follow up shots are a lot slower for me.
 
Full size steel 1911 is a pussycat to shoot. I'm female, I've taught many women to shoot pistols, and I think every one of them loved the 1911.
I used to own a Colt Defender, an alloy frame 3" gun, and currently have a lightweight Officer's, 3.5" barrel. Both are snappier than the full size steel gun,(big surprise, huh?), but are not horrible.
What do you want the pistol for? If it will not be carried, get the 5" steel pistol, no reason not to. For carry, lighter is usually preferred, and a shorter barrel is useful as well.
Try to find one to shoot, that will give you a clearer picture of your needs and limitations.
 
Given the choices you describe, you will be happier with a traditional steel 1911. Forty ounces is still light enough to hold steady in a correct stance, but the difference in perceived recoil and muzzle flip will be significant. That includes faster target re-acquisition. Nothing against the alloy models, they may serve better for carry and concealment.

Speaking of recoil, much will depend on the ammo. Semi-wadcutters are usually among the softest shooting, and are used for target accuracy. They will make the 1911 really easy on your hand.
 
The advice to go to a range and shoot a bit is good.

However, compare an M1911 and a revolver. You may notice that revolvers tend to have "Magna" style grips. There's a reason for that -- without such grips a stiff load in a revolver will give you a sharp rap on the knuckle of your middle finger.

Then look at the M1911 -- there is no way the trigger guard can rap your knuckles. The M1911 does not have bad recoil and it's design makes it easy to deal with recoil.
 
What kind of revolvers do you have experience with? My Ruger GP100 in .357 mag weighs in at 41 oz I think and with Federal 158gr JSP .357 rounds kicks more than a full size 1911. When I say kick I am referring to the muzzle flip. That is something you will have to think about.

When you grip a revolver it tends to sit higher in the hand than something like a 1911, well in my experience it has. Meaning that I can get a higher grip on a 1911 as long as it has a BTGS and not the standard, which in turn reduces the flip. You should be fine with a 30 oz pistol.
 
I own both a S&W Stainless Government and a Pro-Series Compact. Depending upon what you plan on doing with either of these and what you plan on feeding them the difference can be minor or noticeable. The full size frame does indeed reduce perceived recoil but for a carry gun it's a bit large, especially if you are in a state that does not allow open carry.

The first time I fired a compact model 1911 it belonged to a friend who had just purchased it as his first handgun. We went to an indoor range where he could try it out and he handed it to me. I rapid fired a magazine out of this thing at seven yards expecting to have it climb right up the wall and was pleasantly surprised that it printed an acceptable combat accurate group. When my friend fired it his results were pitifully bad. The point to this comment is that it largely depends on "your" familiarity with the weapon and your own experience level. As was suggested above, try to get to shoot both if you can before you buy but in the end what ever you purchase practice, practice, practice.

If you do your own casting and reloading you can adapt different loads to a 1911 and use lower recoil loads and lighter bullets to get familiar. I've been loading 160gr LRNFP's for my Government Model and I love 'em but I wouldn't even think about using them for self defense rounds. They're wickedly accurate in the longer barrel version but I still haven't mastered them in the Compact.

Which ever one you buy you WILL NOT be disappointed with the S&W 1911 platform. Have fun and post pictures of which ever one you decide on.
 
If you had noted which calibers/sizes of revolvers you are comfortable shooting, perhaps we could draw some better parallels.

That said, "wrench" gave you some good advice. A steel 1911 is very comfortable to shoot. If you plan on carrying, a smaller/lighter 1911 is preferable.
 
What kind of revolvers do you have experience with? My Ruger GP100 in .357 mag weighs in at 41 oz I think and with Federal 158gr JSP .357 rounds kicks more than a full size 1911. When I say kick I am referring to the muzzle flip. That is something you will have to think about.

When you grip a revolver it tends to sit higher in the hand than something like a 1911, well in my experience it has. Meaning that I can get a higher grip on a 1911 as long as it has a BTGS and not the standard, which in turn reduces the flip. You should be fine with a 30 oz pistol.
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Yep, if you can handle .357 in a medium frame revolver, I'd say with 99% confidence you'll find a steel 5" government model to be no problem at all. Compared to my S&W 686 .357 Magnum, I perceive the recoil of my 5" 1911 in 45 ACP to roughly split the difference between .38 special +P loads and .357 Magnum. Actually, it is closer to the .38 +P end of the spectrum. Though for me, there is more muzzle rise with the 1911 (with the exception of shooting .357s in the 686, but not be I lot). I grip my revolvers very high up on the frame, to the point where the hammer just touches the webbing of my hand before it falls (in double action) which really cuts down on muzzle flip.
 
I'm with 2wheels on this. Recoil is SO subjective, but I don't find a significant difference between a 5", 4.25" or 3" 1911 in .45. There is a difference; a little more muzzle flip and a little more push, but not significant. I think a comparison of the Glock 19 against the Glock 26 would be similar. But the shorter sight radius does, indeed, make a difference.
 
I have both in steel and don't see much difference but when I carry a 1911 it is the 4.25 and if I have to give one up it would be the 5".
 
Good advice in post #4.

Yes, it's good to go to a rental range and shoot them all, but if I have ever seen a scandium 1911 at a rental range, I don't remember it. If you go there and tell them you want to shoot some 1911s of different weights, they will probably show you all-steel, alloy, aluminum, commander, etc. Scandium is a bit of a niche.

If the weight of a 1911 concerned me for carry, I would get an alloy or aluminum commander-sized gun. But it doesn't. Yesterday it was 100 in Salt Lake, I had a full-size Kimber in my waistband.

As for a .45 recoil, most objective comparisons I have tried are not quite as bad as a .40. The .40 has more snap, the .45 is more of a push. Remember, recoil is relative. I have had rookie female shooters try a 1911 as their first gun, and they shoot it just fine. They have no reference point for "this gun is good or bad."
 
I carry and shoot full-size 1911s. If it's set up properly, you can hold a 1911 just enough to not drop it... and shoot it... and it doesn't fly out of your hand. Very easy.

By "properly set up" I mean a decent Colt. They don't mess around with making a good pistol "better".

I have to say that my Remington R1S worked out pretty well (once I put Colt springs into it).

Tom
 
I've got no intention of carrying it. I dont usually carry but if i do i carry my j frame. The 1911 is something im gonna buy when i start getting healthy enough to spend some time at a range. Im going to be buying a larger caliber revolver soon for home defense because i am 100% comfortable with s&w revolvers.. And theres no room for mistakes when in a self defense situation. I dont see the 1911 as particularly challenging to learn, but the fact that i havent shot one before should explain why i wouldnt rely on one for self defense. Thats why im not getting the 1911 until i have time to spend at a range, and my purpose for that particular gun will be having fun at a shooting range.
When i said most of my experience is with revolvers i didnt mean im totally unfamiliar with semis. Ive spent significant amounts of time with plenty of different kinds of semis in a wide range of calibers. However, the time i've spent on a few smith and wesson revolvers has made me very comfortable with them. Thats why the tool i choose to defend myself and possibly my family will be a smoth and wesson revolver. It's very possible that over the years i'll come to favor the 1911 and make that my home defense gun. Who knows.

Inappreciate the answers so far, but i guess i'm getting some mixed opinions. Even though i dont want to conceal my 1911, i did like the feel of the 4.25" scandium smith i held and found it to line up perfectly when i pointed it.. I also loved the heavier stainless model, but i guess i'm still wondering if the large size will take away from the comfort of handling the gun. It wasnt uncomfortable to handle, but the smaller one was very comfortable. What attracts me to the larger gun is that the weight will prevent "muzzle flip". I guess id say my weakness in shooting is the follow up shots. It takes me a little time to line up that 2nd shot
 
Have you any experience with the .45 Auto or the 1911? I think if you rent some guns and try them out you'll find the recoil isn't that bad. I find it has more of a feeling of a sharp push than the "snap" of .40 S&W, let alone the violent kick and blast of a .357 Magnum revolver with magnums. :)
 
Physics is physics. The full size 1911 is easier to shoot as far as controlability and the longer sight radius is an advantage. The difference between a full size steel gun and a Commander (or smaller) lightweight gun can be significant for many shooters when shooting full boat loads with multiple shots on multiple targets in warp drive against the clock..
 
Good, go ahead and get yourself a 1911 platform of some type....youll get into shape picking up all them empties in a hurry!
 
I owned a Colt. There was nothing magical about it.
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Roger that. I grew up in CT, first pistol I ever shot was my dad's WWII Colt 1911 (age 7, back in 1964). He took me to visit the Colt factory as a young'un.
First handgun I ever bought was a Colt 1911 in 1982, followed by several others, last one as recent as 2006...
Plus three Colt AR15s.

Yeah, the "Colt magic" is vastly overstated, and wore off a bit at a time for me.

These days, I sure like my 4 1/4" Scandium S&W 1911.
Mostly because...it is an actual improvement on the 1911 design, it is well built, it works, and if it ever quits, S&W actually has a CS that is the envy of the industry.

I still have a steel 1911, but it hasn't been out of the safe in a year or so. May get sold one day soon. Just like my steel j-frame...redundant and unnecessary.
 
These days, I sure like my 4 1/4" Scandium S&W 1911.
Mostly because...it is an actual improvement on the 1911 design, it is well built, it works, and if it ever quits, S&W actually has a CS that is the envy of the industry.
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Hey first of all thanks for the input. Second, could you elaborate on what you said about it being "an actual improvement" on the 1911 design? I can see aeveral differences but knowing very little about 1911s, i dont know what makes certain things more desirable so i'm interested in what you think is better about that particular gun. The scandium 4.25" 1911 has been my favorite to handle at the shop, but nothings really as important as how well i handle it at the range. The general idea i seem to be grtting is that any 1911 will push rayher than snap, but is the push much harsher on the little guy? The 4.25" may be my favorite, but not by a lot. I think the 5" models are really awesome too, and would be more than happy owning one if that means i'll have more fun at the range. This is to be my range gun and i plan on firing it a lot.

I guess now would be a good time to ask.. How are smith 1911s, or 1911s in general with wear and tare? How about in scandium?
 
A full-size 1911 kicks so little you can shoot them with nothing more then your thumb depressing the grip safety, and one finger pulling the trigger.
Rapid fire if you want to.

I've done it a hundred times or more demonstrating that fact to Army troops in weapons classes who were afraid the 1911 would hurt them during weapons qualification.

A lightweight alloy gun will kick harder and sharper.
But still nothing an average man cannot learn to control and shoot very well with.

What hurts is the alloy .357 mag and alloy .44 mag revolvers with full power ammo.

It's like getting slapped in the palm with an aluminum baseball bat.

A 1911 of 30 or 40 oz weight on the other hand, is like catching the fastball in a padded baseball glove.

It pushes for sure, but it doesn't slap you in the hand like a light magnum revolver.

rc
 
Even in the smaller and lighter Glock 36 the recoil isn't bad. I actually shot rather well with it. (This was a rental gun.) Naturally, an all steel 1911 will have less kick than an aluminum-framed one. I personally like the "balance" of Commander-length guns better than the five-inch "GI."
 
Delmar said:
Good, go ahead and get yourself a 1911 platform of some type....youll get into shape picking up all them empties in a hurry!
Click to expand...

Ain't that the truth but on the other hand....

I've found new uses for kids and grandkids.;)

I too would be interested in hearing from somebody who owns S&W 1911's with the Scandium frames, specifically the wear aspect of the alloy. I've got two of them and to be honest I'm pretty hooked on S&W 1911's.
 
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