Worst Carry Rig Ever?

Right, we should all search this guy out and dump on him so he will know faceless people on the internet are his superiors.

Nope.

Is the rig all that good, no, had one, it is a lesson in what not to buy. Nonetheless the gunstores are full of them. Considering the safety aspects, isn't any holster better than no holster at all? The shooting community tends to emphasize that a lot.

Will he sweep himself or someone else? Yes. Can you draw from most holsters with 100% assurance you won't? No. It's actually quite difficult. We just live with the system that works for us and minimizes it.

All IWB holsters could send a round thru the carry hip, thigh, leg or foot. Same for OWB. Cross draw, the opposite side, plus the abdomen. Shoulder, the upper chest, if you point it down, both legs bringing it across. Thunderwear, yeah sure.

Tell me a carry method that absolutely won't sweep you, or any person next to you in a restaurant, car, movie theater, mall, on and on.

Small of back carry isn't real good if you land on it, thousands have used them on duty with revolvers in plain clothes. They even sell dual rigs for the "NY reload." If you are on foot in urban areas, you aren't sitting around all day, you are working cases on the street.

Not appropriate for range use? Sure - ranges have to have rules, it's an area with a high number of carriers, and each rule had a ND to create it. Practice with that rig - or the previously mentioned SOB's - would be proscribed. But it was done with those rigs, somewhere. Banning it from the range is counterproductive, which is what some ranges take to an extreme. You can't shoot and move at the same time, but that is the preferred tactical method. Standing still doesn't cut it.

Some ranges won't even let you shoot round dots, how realistic is that? Range rules can go too far, too. What I'm hearing are range officials unable to meet the demands of reality and restricting training to avoid liability. Their insurance needs are more important than survival on the street.

In the military, shoot houses are constructed and training is conducted knowing you and your team mates will sweep each other during an operation. That is why practice is mandatory, and unfortunately, why experienced soldiers get shot annually. It's the risk they assume to keep their skills at the leading edge so they are ready to go when the next Pakistani penthouse needs clearing.

People can criticize anything - there's not a lot the pic recommends to me, but in a certain circumstance, it very well could be the exact answer needed. It's less the holster and it's position as it is the user. Easy to make an assumption that's derogatory, it's based on the ever present need for the average male to position his ego in the best possible light and gain a higher social standing. Trash talk is cheap.

You can criticize it for a lot of reasons - but it is a method of carry that is still used. The holsters are still sold. The user may or may not have skills you even know about. And we are likely no better in a lot of ways compared to the skill level of others who practice daily with live ammo in teams with close proximity.

Don't be so quick to condemn unless you know your methods are absolutely correct in every situation. And beware that attitude, it's exactly what we do hear from many in the after action review of mistakes.

Tirod said:

Right, we should all search this guy out and dump on him so he will know faceless people on the internet are his superiors.

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I used to Mexican carry a single-action semi in Condition 3 in the same location that guy is carrying his pistol. Thanks to the denizens of the Internet, I learned why that wasn't a great idea and what some better alternatives were long before I ever took my first pistol class. I don't doubt there are a few people who think that is an OK way to carry a gun and they should understand what the problems with that method are. Personally, if I were that guy I'd rather be movked a bit and educated than ignorant. At THR, the ideal would be that he'd just be educated without the mocking.

Is the rig all that good, no, had one, it is a lesson in what not to buy. Nonetheless the gunstores are full of them. Considering the safety aspects, isn't any holster better than no holster at all? The shooting community tends to emphasize that a lot.

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That's like arguing that if you are going to drink and drive, isn't it safer if you wear your seat belt? Of course, it is safer than not wearing a seat belt. Still doesn't make it a good idea.

Will he sweep himself or someone else? Yes. Can you draw from most holsters with 100% assurance you won't? No. It's actually quite difficult. We just live with the system that works for us and minimizes it.

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Is it possible that during the day the holster I use will cause the muzzle to point at another person while the gun sits securely in a holster designed for that gun that properly retains it and covers the trigger? Sure. That is possible. Is it possible I might sweep another person or myself during a draw if you put me in a 10'x10' room with 100 people, I might sweep myself or others during the draw? Again, possible. However, in the vast majority of circumstances my pistol is pointed in a safe direction even while holstered and I can draw it without sweeping myself or others - and because I get to actually practice using it from the holster, I can reinforce the good habits that make a safe draw possible.

Aside from the retention issues, aside from whether the soft nylon holster adequately protects the trigger, aside from the retention strap flopping around, you cannot draw that gun without sweeping yourself AND others. It is a 100% guarantee that even with careful, slow, deliberate removal it WILL happen regardless of the level of user care. Right out of the gate, you are saying you will not even try to observe Rule 2. You understand how that is different from saying people sometimes violate Rule 2 despite their best intentions, right?

Not appropriate for range use? Sure - ranges have to have rules, it's an area with a high number of carriers, and each rule had a ND to create it. Practice with that rig - or the previously mentioned SOB's - would be proscribed.

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You miss my point. If you can't practice with what you are carrying it doesn't do you much good. There are certainly no shortage of ranges with unreasonable and unrealistic rules - which is exactly why you would want to avoid a rig that will limit your choice of ranges even more.

And while we're at it, there are many venues where you can work from the holster and shoot on the move - we have several local ranges that offer those kind of facilities as well as IPSC, IDPA, Cowboy Shootng, etc. Not one of those groups would allow the holster in that picture - and that isn't due to some unreasonable bias against cheap nylon rigs; it is because that rig is a bad idea on many levels.

In fact, you can look at the rig and see that despite the fact it appears to be taken on a range, this is not a guy who practices much. If he did, he'd have better gear because he would have already identified a few problems with that set-up. And ironically, you really need a LOT of practice if you are going to use a rig like that because you have a lot of gear problems to overcome to be successful with that rig. Or you could buy a rig that doesn't have those problems and put the practice time towards some other aspect of self-improvement.

People can criticize anything - there's not a lot the pic recommends to me, but in a certain circumstance, it very well could be the exact answer needed.

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Give me one circumstance where that rig is the answer to anything and there isn't a better solution in the same price range.

You can criticize it for a lot of reasons - but it is a method of carry that is still used. The holsters are still sold. The user may or may not have skills you even know about. And we are likely no better in a lot of ways compared to the skill level of others who practice daily with live ammo in teams with close proximity.

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For someone trying to argue a point, you sure spend a lot of time addressing non-sequitrs. One of the whole points of this thread I would hope, is to discuss WHY those holsters are not a great purchase and why that method of carry is a poor choice. Every time someone who legally uses a firearm accidentally shoots someone, it causes problems for all of us - regardless of how responsible we are trying to be. It causes places to ban legal carry by their customers and can be used to create a narrative that such accidents are commonplace.

And I don't understand why you are attempting to minimize the problems with that rig in the picture. If that user has any skill or practice with firearms, he knows what a bad idea that rig is and is either doing it jokingly or he was bizarrely abducted by aliens who took his existing gear for examination and dumped him at a gun range where he managed to dig through the trash and come up with that rig until he could get home.

That rig is a bad idea. There is nothing wrong with pointing that out. Hopefully by pointing out the flaws in that system of carry, someone who hasn't had the time yet to discover these things for themselves will save themselves time, money, and maybe even avoid a potential accident. Like I said, the reason I know that is stupid is because I've been that stupid. I'd like to see others save some time and avoid that process of personally understanding why it is a poor choice. I'm not pointing that out to prove how big my Internet balls are - I'm pointing that out because I don't want people to waste a bunch of time and money on something I know to be a bad idea. I certainly don't want to see someone get hurt - which I think is a real possibility with that rig.

I am surprised nobody had mentioned his stylish cargo JEANS yet. 2:1 they have an elastic waist and are freshly creased from the dry cleaners too. LOL!

Bartholomew Roberts said:

Give me one circumstance where that rig is the answer to anything and there isn't a better solution in the same price range.

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Someone with a wrist or shoulder injury that limits their range of motion/rotation and wants/needs to carry at the small of their back.

I currently have a shoulder injury, fairly minor. Drawing from the pictured holster would be easier than from a tradition small of back holster. Someone with more serious injury, could make a huge difference.

Is that the case here? Maybe, maybe not, we can't know either way from one picture.

To this crowd…

David E said:

The guy pictured is a totally clueless dumb-cluck and deserves all the derision coming his way.

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Old Dog said:

Irresponsible is putting it mildly. Let's just stop sugarcoating this: the guy is a tool, and stuff such as what's depicted in the photo makes all gun owners look bad.

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No, to the general public this would not make gun owners look bad or good any differently than any other holster. Only people already in the gun community would even recognize anything amiss with this rig.

What makes gun owners look bad is gun owners being judgmental, pig headed, inconsiderate, and generally mean spirited toward anyone whose opinions and methods vary even slightly from their own. That is the reputation that keeps people away from the gun community.

I currently have a shoulder injury, fairly minor. Drawing from the pictured holster would be easier than from a tradition small of back holster. Someone with more serious injury, could make a huge difference.

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I am having a difficult time imagining how wrist or shoulder rotation problems are helped by this rig as compared to any of the DeSantis/Galco/etc. SOB holsters. Can you explain that for me?

The other question I would ask is wouldn't a traditional strongside IWB/OWB, appendix carry, or crossdraw be a better solution than a small of back holster in that situation?

Ah, I see -- so, basically, it's NOT all right to call out gun-owners for displaying irresponsible and unsafe modes of open-carrying their firearms. Let's just leave that for the anti-gunners, after all, we would not want to risk offending "one of our own." Is this the new RKBA political correctness?

Look, if we as a group don't say anything about people with guns being unsafe or not doing things the right way, then it will certainly appear that we condone these actions.

And I have had two major shoulder injuries, both to my shooting side, and I cannot imagine having to reach behind my back to draw a handgun from a straight horizontal position.

It's not being mean-spirited or judgmental, Mr. Pizza, it's enforcing safety and encouraging training.

You know, just in the short time I've been on THR, I've seen people treat purse-carry as "worst carry ever", too.

EVERY carry method has it's pros and cons, and some quite obviously have more of one than the other. However, they are ALL carry methods. But, like the guns and ammunition they holster, everybody's got an opinion (justified or not) about what's the "best" or what someone should "never" have or do.

Personally, I see some pretty powerful detractions with this carry method, and some have pointed out others that I never even considered. As a result, I will not likely ever purchase such a holster for myself or anyone else.


Bad designs have a way of either going extinct or at least fading away to some minimalist level. However, the best way of encouraging this is to professionally promulgate the cons and the relative seriousness of them for each given product. Stay away from making statements about the people who may use them and rather consider their reasons to be the result of being uninformed and inexperienced.

When I was younger, this type of holster may have been attractive to me over other types for a variety of reasons because I would not have had a thorough grounding on the mechanics behind safely carrying and drawing my weapon that various styles of holsters offer. My training and experience then was extremely low and tended to be biased by more superficial factors than nowadays.


In fact, after doing a little searching, I noticed that THR doesn't have a thread on carry method pros and cons in which people discuss the various styles of holsters and carry positions. So I started one where we can discuss all kinds of holsters and carry methods ("Holsters and Carry Methods: pros and cons")


I learned a bit about this particular type of holster, how the gun is carried in it, and where the holster is carried. I wouldn't mind seeing more of the like on other holsters.

Old Dog

I am quite ok with criticizing a carry technique.

But...

"The guy pictured is a totally clueless dumb-cluck"
"the guy is a tool"

Has nothing to do with carry technique. They are childish lashing out at a random person that you know nothing about with no context.

Criticize the technique, encourage people to improve and learn, but leave the personal attacks out of it, especially if the ONLY information you have is that they wear jeans, a blue shirt, and a holster you don't like.

Bartholomew Roberts said:

I am having a difficult time imagining how wrist or shoulder rotation problems are helped by this rig as compared to any of the DeSantis/Galco/etc. SOB holsters. Can you explain that for me?

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Bartholomew,

Basically, the only information we have is a picture, there is a ton we don’t know. I work with individuals with disabilities, I have for years, so I am very keen to not make assumptions about anyone. In the spectrum of what the human body can and cannot do, I've seen a lot myself and most anything is possible, especially if you are dealing with major mechanical injury. Someone in an accident who has had major rebuilding of their whole right arm could have any number of ranges of motion that do and do not work and they don’t always make sense.

In particular, I am thinking of someone who had to have rods inserted in their wrist or fused bones, making rotation from palm down to palm up impossible, but the specifics aren’t super important.

I am definitely dealing in hypotheticals, the point is, there could be circumstances and yes, they are hard to imagine, but there are a lot of people out there that have had a lot of hard to imagine things happen to them with unpredictable results. People who end up in these situations have to find ways to make things work that the rest of us would never choose, but it works for them and their circumstance.

With all that said, there is a good to very good chance that this is just someone with a bad rig, but there are other possibilities.

I'd like to see how he draws that without muzzle sweeping himself and 6 or 7 other people as well.

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I'd like to see how he draws it period (from behind cover of course). I think my rotater cuff might seperate. Can that happen DR Sandman?

Right, we should all search this guy out and dump on him so he will know faceless people on the internet are his superiors.

Nope.

Is the rig all that good, no, had one, it is a lesson in what not to buy.

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I didnt know squat about guns when I started last year...but I knew not to go with that setup.

Hate to pile on but...

Someone with a wrist or shoulder injury that limits their range of motion/rotation and wants/needs to carry at the small of their back.

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I have a shoulder injury and this rig would make it hurt worse, not help it.

Bartholomew Roberts said:

I am having a difficult time imagining how wrist or shoulder rotation problems are helped by this rig as compared to any of the DeSantis/Galco/etc. SOB holsters. Can you explain that for me?

The other question I would ask is wouldn't a traditional strongside IWB/OWB, appendix carry, or crossdraw be a better solution than a small of back holster in that situation?

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+1

Sorry , Didnt see this post til after my last one (36) but its very true..this rig would KILL my shoulder.

With all that said, there is a good to very good chance that this is just someone with a bad rig, but there are other possibilities.

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Like what? Why would someone need a pistol velcroed to their ass? So he can draw it when he's bent over, looking behind him between his legs? Or playing Twister with the kids?
Ridiculous. Im goin back to the reloading forum where good sense prevails. Sorry so many back to back posts.

Potatohead said:

I have a shoulder injury and this rig would make it hurt worse, not help it.

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Oh, gee, well, i guess that means you can speak with expertise on every possible shoulder injury that any human could possibly suffer.

:banghead:

Criticize the technique, encourage people to improve and learn, but leave the personal attacks out of it, especially if the ONLY information you have is that they wear jeans, a blue shirt, and a holster you don't like.

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I think that this is a fair point - the personal insults are a distraction from the very pertinant commentary in this thread...

He's a dumb-cluck.

There, I said it again.

He has not thought that carry rig thru one iota.

What makes gunowners look bad isn't calling one a name, it's the guy who shoots himself or others because of his inane carry technique. Maybe it will just fall out of his holster. Maybe on the bus and some kid finds it and…

You defenders of this guy, I wonder how ardently you will defend him when the inevitable happens.

If he MUST carry SOB due to physical reasons, then he should buy a good holster that was designed for it.

9mmepiphany:
3. It is a "clip" holster which offers iffy security even when attached to a belt...it will likely come out with the gun

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I had to look at this picture several times to realize it--he's running his belt through the holster and not using the metal clip, so there's no chance of that happening. Worst case would be the holster slides along his belt until it hits the next belt loop on his pants.

Pizzapinochle said:

Oh, gee, well, i guess that means you can speak with expertise on every possible shoulder injury that any human could possibly suffer.

:banghead:

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Im the foremost authority on shoulder injuries in my area .

Seriously, I cant really see how SOB carry would put less stress on a shoulder injury. It's more the place not to carry if you have a hurt shoulder.

I see what you were trying to say though, dont burst a blood vessel.

For the fellas taking up for the guy...

green5594 said:

Found at http://gunsafetyblog.com/2014/01/24/whats-wrong-with-this-carry-rig/

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Just look again.


I think he'd be better served putting one of those gigantic pockets to use. Ok, Ok, Im done...

I'm not defending the guy at all. I'm suggesting that pointing out the (numerous) issues with this form of carry WITHOUT name calling and insults might just be the most effective way to actually, you know, make this thread useful.

I'm sure that name-calling is emotionally satisfying for some, but it is rarely profitable.

Look, if the guy wasn't trying to make a "Hey, look at me, I carry a gun!" statement, he wouldn't be open carrying that Hi-Point like he is.

As such, he's tacitly agreed to be judged and criticized.

I'm amazed no one knows idiots that own guns. Further amazed if you don't call them that when talking about what they said or did as you discuss it with your friends.

The arrogant know-it-all at the Gunshop who tells the old 95# lady the only gun that'll do the job is a Smith & Wesson Model 329 .44 magnum with full loads.....is an idiot.

The guy on YouTube that carries his Glock upside down on his belt (pointing the gun at the entire length of his body each time he draws)......is an idiot.

The DEA agent who gave a gun safety class to elementary kids WITH A LOADED GUN (and finger on the trigger).....is an idiot.

And so is this guy.

Now, if this guy posted that picture and asked for feedback, no one here would call him names. If he showed for a class wearing that rig, I'd take him aside and discuss safe holster options with him. If he refused, I'd give back his money and not allow him in my class with that holster set up.

But if and until this guy asks for help, my statement stands.

I actually read through most of the posts about this object of derision.... the longer posts just lost my interest -but I'm getting cranky and my attention span isn't what it used to be (that's my excuse...)

I can't criticize whoever this is without thinking of all the dumb ways I carried sidearms over many years when I carried 24/7 if I was awake and up and around. The worst rigs for me were shoulder holsters of any kind. They look good, they actually carry your weapon - but I could never live with one. A few years later I'd see another shoulder rig... but after a while they no longer tempted me.

One thing is for sure about carrying weapons -the more you carry the more you'll know what meets your needs and actually works for you. The one carry style I learned to avoid and counselled my officers to avoid was the old "inside the waistband without holster" carry. That was something I did for many years when off duty... until one afternoon when I got involved off duty and it was two good guys trying to detain two bad actors. As we danced around a parked car my sidearm (an S&W short barrrel model 64) slid out of position, then hit the ground -open to anyone. The best I could do at the time was to kick it under the car so the bad guy couldn't get it.... I survived that day, mostly by luck, but it was a hard lesson learned...

Like I said, I can't criticize anyone else about the way they carry their sidearms. I do like to see constructive advice for anyone willing to learn, though... Me, I always learned the hard way....

Look, if the guy wasn't trying to make a "Hey, look at me, I carry a gun!" statement, he wouldn't be open carrying that Hi-Point like he is.

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You mean like the guy who takes a look at a single, close-up shot and says "Hey, look at the guy showing off that he's carrying a gun like that in a close up shot that could be anyplace, like a the grounds at a local shooting club or maybe in his own back yard with other gun-carrying friends"?

Methinks the point of several of these posts has been served up in spades: take the picture for what it is and quit reading more into it than is called for AND try to make the points for/against the method of carrying something more professionally minded and helpful...you know, THR?

OK, the guy MAY be ignorant, but that still doesn't quantify WHY he may be ignorant. So far, about the best and most helpful comment posted is post #39 by 9mmepiphiny. He discusses the draw from this holster/position AND covers some of the cons of carrying this way.

THAT'S useful information.