Disturbing Question

I travel to and from Canada about a dozen times a year. Mostly through New York. The CCW question started last year. Answering untruthfully is reason for detainment. They already know the answer prior to asking the question. I was once asked what makes of vehicles were registered in my name. I forgot about a jeep that was a project and torn down to a rolling chassis in my garage. After not naming the Jeep the USBPA asked "Do you own a 1987 CJ-7 Jeep?"

Honestly, the USBPA's I have delt with since 1999 have been a******s. They could certainly learn a thing or two from the Canadian Agents whom have always been courteous and professional.

T2E

Flying into Miami from Brazil last week I got to use the new re-entry computerized system. Scan your passport then tap the screen to answer 6 standard questions. The machine takes your picture and prints out your replies. You hand this receipt to the border agent who looks at it and waves you by. No questions about guns, only about agricultural products, and exposure to cattle. Other than the long lines, it was pretty simple.

Let's make this simple, as simple as possible. While for the most part my days of extensive international travel ended years ago I remember a few things. While the name has changed their job remains the same.

I have seen many comments in this thread where people come up with all sorts of things they would tell a CBP agent or officer. Talk is cheap, it really is. While in a customs area you are in their sandbox and you will play by their rules. Piss an agent off and you can figure they will make your life a living hell. They will hold your butt till they are ready to let you go. Try a pissing contest with them or the IRS sometime, you will lose.

You enter the US Customs holding area, you answer their questions (that does not mean answering a question with a question) and you move along. Really pretty simple. You lie to them and your life will become a living hell and yes, they really can do that. They are trained to be suspicious so don't give them a reason to be suspicious. In most cases they likely already know more about you than you know about you.

Ron

Asking about guns and CC permits are reasonable questions, especially when entering a non gun friendly location.

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There's NOTHING "reasonable" about asking about a concealed carry credential when you're not armed.

It's asking about a LAWFUL activity, and has NO innocent interpretation, certainly no more of one than questions about your religion, sexual preference or party affiliation.

It's nothing more than, AT BEST, an attempt to intimidate, or at worst, to collect information for future illegitimate use.

Try a pissing contest with them or the IRS sometime, you will lose.

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I'm sure fawning, servile submission produces a MUCH better result...

^^ It does, actually, if you simply want to get thru the check.

The only time I reverted to my "I'm a US Citizen with a right to enter" line was after I was asked the same question 5 times in a row driving back from Canada. I had a piece of military quality sonar equipment in my van and the CBP guy simply didn't believe that it was for personal shipwreck hunting use. It was a US product and I finally got frustrated with the questions, bearing in mind that there's no declaration needed for US goods being returned to the USA and that as a citizen I have a *right* of re-entry.

But basically the fastest way to clear in is just to answer what they ask. Noting that their training includes looking for micro-expressions as a reaction to the questions they ask. Your body language speaks louder than words.


Willie

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^^ It does, actually, if you simply want to get thru the check.

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Bullies ALWAYS escalate when they get what they want that they're not entitled to.

Eventually, they'll start asking for whom you voted... if they haven't started already. I wouldn't bet my life that they haven't asked that or similarly improper questions.

But hey, the IRS never targeted anybody for their politics either.

If they were EVER our "friends", those days are OVER.

Based upon the posts so far on this thread I would assume that this is not a new standard process being used for returning U.S. citizens. I wouldn't be surprised if it is just a NY thing. Every time I go to NY (to visit my mother, who is 9) I feel like I am entering a foreign country. Legally I could not even have a firearm unloaded and locked in a case in my car, so even though I can legally carry in several states while coming from my home to NY, once I cross the PA/NJ border and go on to NY I am in hostile territory. I assume that if I was stopped for a traffic violation, the LEO would be able to determine that I am an IL concealed carry license holder, and I would not want to risk being arrested by having a firearm somewhere in my car. So I have to travel unarmed the entire trip. I guess if I went to Canada and then was asked that question upon my return I would feel just as I do every time I go to NY.

Isn't lying to a federal agent a crime?

Y'all bitch about the border and then moan when there are people checking those who cross it.

I would hope that questions are asked that help determine who is a threat to the country, not about citizens exercising their lawful and constitutional rights.

"Y'all bitch about the border and then moan when there are people checking those who cross it."

How does asking me if I have a LEGAL concealed carry credential "protect" the border?

If so, how does it do so more than asking my sexual preference or party affiliation?

I would hope that questions are asked that help determine who is a threat to the country, not about citizens exercising their lawful and constitutional rights.

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These days, exercising ones lawful and constitutional rights arouses more and more intense animosity in government than membership in ISIS.

But hey, the IRS never targeted anybody for their politics either.

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Really?
Wasn't there a recent incident with tax-exempt organizations?
Obama has his hand everywhere.

There's NOTHING "reasonable" about asking about a concealed carry credential when you're not armed.

It's asking about a LAWFUL activity, and has NO innocent interpretation, certainly no more of one than questions about your religion, sexual preference or party affiliation.

It's nothing more than, AT BEST, an attempt to intimidate, or at worst, to collect information for future illegitimate use.

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You seem to have a chip on your shoulder. I spent 23 years dealing daily with folks with bad attitudes and chips on their shoulder. Those that did very quickly learned how much aggravation and unpleasant I could make their life.

There are a volume of regulations a Customs Officer could use to cause you lots of aggravation if they want too. Since he is following the regulations to the letter their ain't a dang thing you can do about.

Let's make this simple, as simple as possible. While for the most part my days of extensive international travel ended years ago I remember a few things. While the name has changed their job remains the same.

I have seen many comments in this thread where people come up with all sorts of things they would tell a CBP agent or officer. Talk is cheap, it really is. While in a customs area you are in their sandbox and you will play by their rules. Piss an agent off and you can figure they will make your life a living hell. They will hold your butt till they are ready to let you go. Try a pissing contest with them or the IRS sometime, you will lose.

You enter the US Customs holding area, you answer their questions (that does not mean answering a question with a question) and you move along. Really pretty simple. You lie to them and your life will become a living hell and yes, they really can do that. They are trained to be suspicious so don't give them a reason to be suspicious. In most cases they likely already know more about you than you know about you.

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Well said. Be courteous, treat the Officials like you like to be treated, answer their questions and save your smart remarks for the Internet.

Deanimator, if you want to piss them off then have at it. Me? I just want my butt through and done as quick as possible. I remain calm and friendly and that seems to work. I am not about to question their questions.

Ron

Deaminator, if OH didn't link CCW to your DL maybe CBP wouldn't be asking that question. If someone were not you using your documents they would have a 50/50 chance of answering the question correctly. There are a lot of people other than ISIS we (including you) don't want in this country.

CBP needs to determine people are who they say they are and what, if anything they are really bringing into this country. Thats how they are protecting this country. Don't think that arrogance and refusing to cooperate is going to make them back down. There really is no 4th amendment at the border and if you want to invoke the 5th remember that's to protect you from self incriminating not for not identifying yourself to the inspectors satisfaction.

Isn't lying to a federal agent a crime?

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It isn't if your name is Hillary Clinton.

Isn't lying to a federal agent a crime?

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It isn't if your name is Hillary Clinton.

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Who killed Vince Foster?!

/threadjack

Up until very recently, I was crossing the border between the U.S. and Canada (driving) a minimum of 2 times per month. I also have a Nexus card, so I know the drill! I have been asked far more times about gun ownership going into Canada by CBSA versus into the U.S. by CBP. It is always wise to be polite and respectful, but the border is a "Constitution Free Zone" and you can be brought into secondary for any reason. Reasonable suspicion and probable cause standards do not apply for detainment or search. Concerned citizens and congress have recently pushed for suspicion of wrongdoing before electronic devices are searched or copied, which is still a gray area.

Ultimately, you cannot be denied reentry into the U.S. as long as you are a U.S. citizen, have proper identification (identity established) and complete the customs declaration. You are absolutely not required to verbally discuss details of your trip or ownership of firearms.

I'm all for giving our border patrol the technological tools to see who is coming to our border. I want them to know if the guy in front of them has been popped for smuggling drugs before. I want them to know that the other guy has known terrorist associations. Etc.

However:

When you hassle someone just because you can, or with no cause other than to "see what comes up", that's called being a prick. Doing it and getting away with it because you have governmental protection makes you even more of a prick. Thinking you need to do this for your job means you're not very good at your job, which makes you an incompetent prick.

I've met both types, used to travel to Canada somewhat frequently as I have cousins there. If you have an issue or suspicion about someone, deal with it. Asking about inconsequential crap hoping for Suzy Homemaker to make an honest mistake or get a little nervous is not doing anything to protect this country. If you suspect illegal activity, address it and watch for reactions. If not, put your ego away and keep the line moving. Not all of us have time to waste on some low level functionary's self importance.

Maybe I've got a chip on my shoulder. It's due to reading responses here that seem to imply there are two classes of citizens, those that have a badge and gun and those that do not. Just because Uncle Sugar will back you up does not give one carte blanche to be a professional ass.

tango2echo said:

I travel to and from Canada about a dozen times a year. Mostly through New York. The CCW question started last year.

Honestly, the USBPA's I have delt with since 1999 have been a******s. They could certainly learn a thing or two from the Canadian Agents whom have always been courteous and professional.

T2E

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Bummer. The CBP in Texas haven't been a******s at all in my experience.

I haven't traveled internationally by air in a few years so I have no experience with the CCW/CHL question being asked.

Deanimator said:

If so, how does it do so more than asking my sexual preference or party affiliation?

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When did the CBP start doing that?

"Personally, I don't don't think it is any of their business either, but here in Arkansas if you are stopped and asked for ID you are supposed to show your CC permit also. Whither you are carrying or not."

This didn't make any sense so I looked it up on handgunlaw.us and this is not true, you need to inform only if carrying like in any other must inform state.

Here's the link to the handgunlaw.us page, look in the "Must Inform" section.

http://handgunlaw.us/states/arkansas.pdf

You seem to have a chip on your shoulder.

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You seem to enjoy power for its own sake. That's a bad trait in "law enforcement".

A concealed carry credential when I'm not carrying is NONE of your business. The fact that you seem to think it is, points to particular attitudes and motivations on your part.

Yeah, you can violate my rights... for a while. Then it gets expensive. After a certain point you get too expensive to employ.