Disturbing Question

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CBP needs to determine people are who they say they are and what, if anything they are really bringing into this country. Thats how they are protecting this country.
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How does them asking about a CHL "protect" the country?
 
There's a difference between a police officer or customs agent asking if you have any guns with you and that officer/agent asking if you own any guns and/or have a carry permit. Very few if any organized crime members, smugglers, terrorists, and traffickers legally own guns and have carry permits.

A carry permit being a government document doesn't mean that you are obligated to reveal your issuance of one to every government agent that comes along. Customs and Enforcement Agents are supposed to be ensuring that there's no smuggling, illegal persons or criminals crossing our borders, not fishing for people who fit their individual political ideology of bad guys.
 
Deanimator said:
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Yeah, you can violate my rights... for a while. Then it gets expensive. After a certain point you get too expensive to employ.
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Or if the agency or state/local government feels that guns and their owners are viewed as a "problem", it's a different case. Then even if a lawsuit eventually makes it through the the court system, and maybe wins it's no big deal. To these entities ... it's the price of doing business. Said differently if CBP agents are told that the permit holders "may constitute a threat", then taking extra time with them may be advantageous to their carer. But there will be many who are detained, held and charged without lawsuit.

Another semi-related case is when a state (in this case Maryland) targets out of state drivers who have an issued carry permit and then subsequently treats them as a threat. IF the story is true, it's not just one officer acting on his/her own. Their would need someone at a computer to say "permit holder" and another to chase/detain/search. The 1st link is the "media embellished" early report of the targeting gun owners story. The 2nd is a follow up, but inconclusive.

http://theconservativetreehouse.com...nt-maryland-coordination-and-analysis-center/

http://frontlinestate.com/?p=2193

chuck
 
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A different thought...

Would the fact you have a concealed carry permit mean, to the agent, that you are not a "person of interest" due to the process of obtaining a permit in most states? It could signal the agent that you are a good guy because you have the permit, not a bad guy.
 
Would the fact you have a concealed carry permit mean, to the agent, that you are not a "person of interest" due to the process of obtaining a permit in most states?
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Anything is literally POSSIBLE. What's LIKELY is entirely different.

If they're not going to check, you could just lie and cruise though.

If they've already checked, why ask?

This is about a political agenda and harassing people for engaging in lawful activities which they don't like.
 
1911guy nailed it with his post:

I'm all for giving our border patrol the technological tools to see who is coming to our border. I want them to know if the guy in front of them has been popped for smuggling drugs before. I want them to know that the other guy has known terrorist associations. Etc.

However:

When you hassle someone just because you can, or with no cause other than to "see what comes up", that's called being a prick. Doing it and getting away with it because you have governmental protection makes you even more of a prick. Thinking you need to do this for your job means you're not very good at your job, which makes you an incompetent prick.

I've met both types, used to travel to Canada somewhat frequently as I have cousins there. If you have an issue or suspicion about someone, deal with it. Asking about inconsequential crap hoping for Suzy Homemaker to make an honest mistake or get a little nervous is not doing anything to protect this country. If you suspect illegal activity, address it and watch for reactions. If not, put your ego away and keep the line moving. Not all of us have time to waste on some low level functionary's self importance.

Maybe I've got a chip on my shoulder. It's due to reading responses here that seem to imply there are two classes of citizens, those that have a badge and gun and those that do not. Just because Uncle Sugar will back you up does not give one carte blanche to be a professional ass.
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My standard answer to the US CBP is: "I'm a US Citizen with the right of return to the United States. May I proceed?"
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Willie always has the best answers.



Grew up in Detroit, used to travel to Canada almost weekly for a good chunk of time. Never got asked about a CHL. Was many moons ago, however.
 
Personally, I've always been a fan of "if I'm not doing anything wrong I have nothing to fear." Answering a question makes no matter to me and does not, unilaterally, describe the questioner as harassing. Seems like a lot of hairs being split in this thread over "what ifs" when most here already know the law. Asking questions does not violate any of those laws, especially at a border.
 
Asking questions does not violate any of those laws, especially at a border.
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Asking the question is not the point. Whether you can be compelled to answer is the question.

So, if you're near the border, do you have to tell them:
  • your religion?
  • your political affiliation?
  • your sexual preference?
  • for whom you voted in the last election?
Whether you have a concealed carry credential [but aren't carrying] has no MORE law enforcement relevance than any of the above.

Asking any of those questions at gunpoint, literal or figurative, has NO innocent interpretation.
 
Deanimator said:
Asking the question is not the point. Whether you can be compelled to answer is the question.



So, if you're near the border, do you have to tell them:

  • your religion?
  • your political affiliation?
  • your sexual preference?
  • for whom you voted in the last election?

Whether you have a concealed carry credential [but aren't carrying] has no MORE law enforcement relevance than any of the above.



Asking any of those questions at gunpoint, literal or figurative, has NO innocent interpretation.
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Time and energy, my friend. Congratulations on having much more than I do. :)
 
Deanimator,

The point you are missing is if you want respect you have to show respect. Are there Customs Agents with poor attitudes? Sure just like in all Agencies and private companies.

In Government the employee can NEVER go wrong by following written policies and procedures. They are human and have feelings also. Be a jerk, expect to be treated like one. I hate to think about how many rules they could use to cause you aggravation and delays.

TRX,

I am dang proud of myself. I worked for 23 years with the worst, most violent criminals in the entire State. Prison culture is based on mutal respect. I showed respect and they showed respect and we got along fine. But every inmate I supervised understood that if they caused problems for my officers then they had a big problem with me.

I personally don't like going through TSA checkpoints when I fly. I have seen them do really stupid things like enhanced searches on 80+ year old lady and her 60+ daughter who was pushing her mother in a wheelchair. I personally don't have respect for that officer but I show respect for their position and authority.
 
I can't prove it but while passing Canadian Customs the first time this summer the agent got pretty chatty about what kind and how many guns I had after scanning my passport.
I got the feeling that my CCW info showed up on his screen.
The discussion was friendly and I passed without incident but he definitely seemed to know that I was a gun guy.
 
I have to wonder of what use it is to ask questions when the person asking does not already know the answer.

If I am trying to see if someone is lying or not to me I ask questions that I already know the answers too.
 
We do want these guys to do their jobs, correct? And catch folks that are up to no good before they get a chance to do worse inside our country, right? Just checking.

I would think that may or may not entail asking people questions that they deem "uncomfortable" from time to time.

It's not just people of Arab descent that terrorize.
 
I think the issue and concern of border patrol or any other gov't officials asking about guns is that they are building a dossier/file on you and your personal habits. The profile the gov't builds on you can and is used to determine access and suitability for certain things such as health care, travel etc, etc.

If you own guns you are a high risk for government health insurance. If you own guns you may fit the profile of an anti-government type and therefore will have your taxes scrutinized more closely and/or be denied entry into govt buildings/property etc. You may eventually be denied a passport or access into other countries. Unfortunately we are already owned by the gov't from birth to death so there really isn't much they can't do or don't know about you.
 
CBP can probably find out if you have one if they know who you are.
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Maybe, maybe not. If you are an Alabama resident with an Alabama pistol license you are somewhat protected from such information being made available. Alabama state law forbids pistol license information being released to anyone except during an ongoing criminal investigation (a fishing expedition doesn't count). Al. pistol licenses are issued by county sheriffs and are not connected with our driver's licenses. It would be difficult for CBP to obtain that information.
 
I guess your faith in this statement would depend on how far (legally or otherwise) you think the federal government's tentacles reach into other government agency's databases.
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True enough but I don't see CBP or anyone else expending the time and energy it would take to get that information without a reason other than just wanting to know.
 
From my standpoint if the CCW (CHL, CCP, etc) is connected to your license in your state, I could see that as a bonified way of checking identity. The guy who stole your license/passport and somehow inserted his picture is highly unlikely to know that information. Double-check on identity, that is all.
 
I have not traveled internationally and the last time I flew at all, I was in a wheelchair and getting frisked in lieu of metal detector, X-ray, and shoe exam was the least of my worries.

A friend had a lengthy encounter with TSA and managed to maintain what the radio shrink calls the "dumb and cheerful" persona. She was as well treated as the system allowed. Maybe a little better.

I would keep it simple. I would answer the question asked and no more. No (apparently) casual conversation with a government agent, just yes sir, no sir, three bags full.
 
So, if you're near the border, do you have to tell them:

your religion?
your political affiliation?
your sexual preference?
for whom you voted in the last election?
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No, and I don't know of any instance where those questions or that line of questioning was ever asked.

Early in this thread I mentioned that these agents can and do ask questions on behalf of other agencies. Has it occurred to anyone that a line of questioning regarding CCW could be on behalf of another agency, especially when entering the US through NY?

Finally, I am pretty sure that for the most part the guy asking the questions is merely following orders of a superior. While they likely have some latitude I would venture the guy asking is not dreaming the questions up. Not of his own accord anyway. While I don't disagree there can be and is abuse of power within any government agency or that abuse trickles down to state and local agencies on a regular basis, I have never heard of the line of questioning quoted above being used. Should those questions be asked, then yes, there is cause for pause.

Ron
 
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