I will.....NEVER.....go unarmed again....ANYWHERE!

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Topgun

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Went with wife to chain drug store yesterday. Middle of afternoon. A guy on a bicycle rides up and begins his begging routine.

I had a particularly stressful day and didn't want to be BOTHERED by the usual "wait to hear the spiel and then politely decline " as we were in a hurry and I just wanted to get our chore over with no outside interference.

I told the guy to "get away from us....just go AWAY" and it pissed him off. He started to follow with blood in his eye. Just straddling the damn bike and following us up the sidewalk.

I was not carrying.

I had my "tactical" 3.5" bladed one hand opening ....KNIFE...and that was it. I suddenly realized that a knife is a TOOL and a gun is a WEAPON.

I could just see a bloody mess and him probably having something that would cut or bite, too. Oh great. AIDS from a bum.

So, although we were worried now about what he might do to the car, we went in the store and I asked if they had any security people.

"Well, not unless you have a description."
"OK......that's him at the window peering in at us as we speak."
"Well, I would still need a ...........DESCRIPTION."
AAAAARRRRGH!
"OK....black, skinny, on a bike, dreadlocks, do-rag, dirty blue stocking cap, blue cloth COAT in this heat, and black sweat pants....like HIM outside the window!"
"Well, we'll call someone as soon as we get another register open."

Now, I would not want to have a shoot-out over words and would not do so, but damned if I ever again want to be in a position to have to wait for someone's "store procedure" to hamper my movements again. Probably nothing would have happened if we had simply walked out, but you NEVER know.

I have CCW and would have felt a whole lot better to have been able to manage the situation on MY terms.

NEVER GO UNARMED!

:fire:
 
If that is the amount of concern they show toward their customers--I would find another place to shop.

I would write a letter to managemant also letting them know. I'll bet they will be a little more concerned for your safety while you are at theirv store.

Don't go anywhere unarmed. That is why you got your license in the first palce. Right?

sensei
 
Yep, sensei. Have ALREADY decided to shop elsewhere. Problem is that THAT shopping center is BETTER than most.

Sad thing is.........their "concern" is probably more toward not "offending" a (horrors!) "minority" who ....might.....cause more problems than a beat up couple of customers.

I went to THE shopping mall in my old hometown of Stockton, CA where we used to live not 2 blocks away. This was on Wednesday. I ....was.... armed. And damned glad as while we were at the Hallmark store, I heard commotion and security was chasing a guy down the aisle to an exit.

And the place was FULL of 2-way radio crackle. AND.....they have a "central command" kiosk manned with guards and TV monitors and...oh yeah....a couple of "Information" clerks to direct customers. (Probably to safest cover and concealment)

Times are a-changin.

:barf:
 
Topgun,

I am with you; I have felt the same type of implied danger under identical circumstances. However, the issue seems to be (as you stated in your initial posting) the vagrant did not really do anything that was specifically threatening. He followed you and was menacing to be sure, but he did not produce a weapon, or make an actual threat, or act insanely, or assault anyone. And that is the problem. In most venues, you need to have a “grave and immediate danger to innocent life†to brandish a firearm. Without a compelling threat, you or I – not the bum – could easily be the arrested individual.

Now, NONE of this suggests that being armed would not have been the smart approach, only that the peril must be direct, dire, and instantaneous.

Best regards.
 
Oh my god. You wanted to shoot a poor homeless man who was only wanting money for food. He 's obviously just a poor victim of society who was trying to work through his issues. The poor,poor soul. What's that? Some 9mm compassion?Yeah that might work.
 
I understand your feelings. It is getting to where Metrotactical is needed to go to a ATM. You need a cell phone, GMRS handi-talkie, a multi-tool, baton, Taser, firearm and extra ammunition. No zombies, reality. I would find out who owns the actual complex and complain by e-mail. Documented stalking is not what a management company wants. The best thing to do is call 911. I had a friend who was cut by a homeless bum. He defended himself with a big sandfilled ashcan. Blood was everywhere. The BG escaped. My friend spent a year taking HIV/AIDS tests.
 
So, although we were worried now about what he might do to the car, we went in the store and I asked if they had any security people.
Click to expand...

Having had several cars trashed to one degree or another over the years, I surely wouldn't have left it there. I'd have driven away PDQ.
 
Standing Wolf.

The door to the store was closer than the car. In fact, we were AT the door when the guy was no longer looking for a handout but advancing on us with a hostile "bad look" (if that makes any sense) with finger pointing and saying....something.

The demeanor was (although not audible) "Let's mix it up, XXXX" and we have all seen it.

Now HAD I been armed, I would NOT have escalated the situation nor probably even drawn the gun. But when I have a choice of "seeing if I can get to the car with a possible fight.....or going in a store to call security" I don't care that much about the car.

As I said, I am usually a polite **shole with these bums, but yesterday I just didn't want to be BOTHERED.

I fully realize I don't HAVE that right in this great country, but sometimes I hallucinate and THINK I do.

:D

edited to add that if I had been ARMED, I could have used all the OTHER things at one's disposal like hitching up my pants or having some other innocent "oops" thingie that usually sends idiots in search of easier pickins.

Hell, I may go to McDonalds and get some damn $1 ....FOOD....coupons so I can play out the whole damn silliness and when they lie an tell you they're "HONGRY" I can whip out a coupon for .....FOOD!

REALLY piss em off. Heh.
 
Use your cell phone, call the cops. What do you think the security guards will do, other than call the police themselves? Break off the encounter, if he doesn't go away, call the police and let them handle it. They are probably on a first name basis with the guy already.

I had been ARMED, I could have used all the OTHER things at one's disposal like hitching up my pants or having some other innocent "oops" thingie that usually sends idiots in search of easier pickins.
Click to expand...
And if the bum is really crazy and decides to try and grab your piece? :uhoh:
 
You were armed. Don't underestimate a knife. I am all for having your gun with you at ALL times. But, you need to expand your definition of "armed".

I have my Glock 27 with me 97% of the time.
I have my ACFK knife with me 98% of the time.
I have 10 years of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, and Karate with me 100% of the time.

I wish I only had my wits about me more than 50% of the time....
 
If your only tool is a hammer…

I do not see that you met a nail.

What I do see is that you attempted to order an adult stranger’s behavior in a public place: COME! HEEL! SIT! STAY! as if he were an unruly dog. Of course he was annoyed! There was nothing surprising, illegal, or, in my reading, particularly threatening in his responses.
 
Huck says: "What I do see is that you attempted to order an adult stranger’s behavior in a public place: COME! HEEL! SIT! STAY! as if he were an unruly dog. Of course he was annoyed! There was nothing surprising, illegal, or, in my reading, particularly threatening in his responses."

I think any rational person would consider the bum's demenor threatening. Don't overlook the fact, that Topgun had his wife with him also. Telling the RastaMan to bug off is not demeaning, and even if it were, so what? The guy was ACTING like an unruly dog, so addressing him in that manner is fine with me.

If someone comes that close to me and my wife, and displays that kind of attitude, there is gonna be trouble for sure.

Guess you guys out there on the left coast just think differently than we do down South.
 
Greeting's All-

Topgun my friend- I know exactly where you are
coming from. With today's state of affairs, I NEVER leave
home without my CCW. I try to avoid places in which CCW
isn't permitted. That applies to friends residences, also.
If MY firearm isn't welcome; well then, neither am I. :( :D

Be careful out there folk's; and train yourself to have
eyes in the back on your head! As there are too many
no good scumbag's floating the streets.:uhoh: ;) :D

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
 
Living in the liberal septic tank that is Olympia, WA the downtown is full of homeless people and the local shelter recently closed so a lot of them have nowhere to go.

Panhandling and begging is practically on every block and those that get money usually spend it on dope or liquor and then go asking for more money.

The last time I was wakling downtown, some homeless person asked for money and I just kept walking. He yells at me to ask if I had heard him and then begins to follow me. I walk a block with this guy right behind me asking why I can't "help my fellow man out with a few bucks" So I turn to him and proceeded to tell him to get lost and he goes ballistic.

I saw a police car coming up the street and I step out into the street to flag the cop down and the guy takes off running. The cop says he can't really do a lot as the jail is too full to hold beggars (the county jail is extremely overcrowded and they turn people loose all the time for fear of lawsuits from the liberal lawyers and advocacy groups). So I ask the cop what I should do next time and he says "just give them a couple bucks and they will go away". What a great response from the local police!! It's hard to say what this guy could have done if the cop didn't show up (outside of moan and groan and bleed on the sidewalk if no police were around).

So now I avoid walking around downtown whenever possible and never at night (other problems with kids with more jewlery in their face than most people own). Then last month there was a bar fight followed by a fatal shooting; the BG was caught in Vegas a week later.

Not a fun town anymore.
 
Humphh. Well, I wasn't there, so anything I say is Monday morning quarterback stuff. I can see where you would be concerned. On the other hand, it was a public place, in the middle of the afternoon, and the guy seems from your description more annoying than truly threatening. I imagine that I have had similar experiences with aggressive beggars a hundred times in my lifetime and none ever actually attacked me. That's not to say it never happens, but it is extremely rare for panhandlers to get violent. I agree with the reply suggesting that you may have been a little brusque with the guy. Yeah, it's irritating to have people approach you and ask for a hand out, but snapping his head off maybe isn't the best idea either. I wonder, what would you have done differently had you been armed? Would you have drawn on him or would you merely have felt better having a gun? I don't really carry all that often but when I do I am far more likely to run from any trouble because I don't want things to escalate. Walking away and leaving him on the sidewalk sounds like the right to do whether you have a gun or not. Like I said, I wasn't there.
 
have em all over here at USC.


I just say no.

And ignore them
 
Friend's kids went to USC - one still there. Lost one car and other one thoroughly picked over. Talk about a nice place in the middle of a cesspool! Down here by the coast in the south end of Redondo Beach, the place I bank has been robbed several times per month for some time now. Wife missed walking in on it by 20 minutes, one of my tenants arrived 5 minutes after the fact. Son was on camera with his boss at another bank across the street 5 minutes before a takeover robbery. All the bank stuff was within a 2 week period. It's all just a shout away.
 
What you were missing that night was not the gun, but the "zen of the gun." Ironically, the 'zen' only comes when one is armed. :)

It is that 'zen' which gives you a peaceful feeling in a possibly dangerous situation. It allows you to continue life on 'your' terms instead of making you take the 'safe route home.' Numerous times it has been the zen of the gun that has allowed my wife and I to enjoy a nice summer evening downtown, or walk around the block for that matter. :rolleyes:

I know you wouldn't have pulled a gun on some bum who's pissed at life and his own mistakes (only pointed out by you, not caused by you), but the gun tucked safely in your holster that night would have allowed you to continue feeling at peace and void of any fear that a "bum" might visit violence upon you.

My wife knows the "zen" a lot more intimately then she knows the gun. You see, the 'zen' is with her too, even though the 'gun' is with me. :D

There's nothing more romantic than a wife telling her husband that she has never felt fear when he is with her. Carry a gun, for your family!! ;)
 
Well put J. Wise. Never thought of calling it "zen", but the explaination fits. Armed people have a feeling of calm all the time even when things don't look right. Perhaps that look of confidence in one's eyes or the way they carry themselves when armed goes a long ways in diffusing threats. Heard in a movie once: Peaceful outside, warrior inside.
How does that psalm go.......

Yea though I walk through the valley of death,
I will fear no evil for I'm the meanest SOB in the valley.
My Glock (insert HG of choice) and my S&W Special Tactical tanto (blade of choice),
They comfort me. :D etc, etc,........
 
Guess you guys out there on the left coast just think differently than we do down South.
Click to expand...

Not all of us...

Sometimes, being armed is the difference between a peaceful encounter and a violent attack. Predators sense fear and unease. I don't get bothered by this sort very much, but then again, I've been told I look like a dangerous person.....
At 5'10 and 300+ pounds, not many people will even talk to me on the street.
 
So I ask the cop what I should do next time and he says "just give them a couple bucks and they will go away".
Click to expand...

Wrong! Every time we reward bums with money—not so-called "homeless people," but plain old-fashioned bums—we encourage them to continue refusing to accept responsibility for themselves.
 
Uh, me thinks that it's not exactly a public place. A shopping mall, drug store or what have you is owned by an individual or a corportation but is not owned by the public (in the context of being paid for by tax dollars), or at least any of them I know of. Now when I took out liability insurance on my farm, I talked with the agent of how one retard on a snowmobile was out on a farmers field that was posted, hit a rock and filed suit against the farmer because he didn't pick that rock and should have known that a snowmobiler might hit it. Insurance company settled out of court over it from what I was told. What I'm getting at here is that it might be a good idea to send a letter (preferably registered) to the mall and/or store owner detailing the incident and remind him that the owner is liable for any damages done to you while on their property. See what kind of eyebrows that will raise!:evil:
I do also agree with you that carrying 100% of the time is not a bad idea where legal. The wife sometimes looks at me funny when I pack here in ND when there is little chance of anything happening to me. I simply tell her that I can no more guarantee that assaults won't happen to us any more than I can no more guarantee that a tire might blow out on the truck while I'm on the road. If we all had the gift of fore-sight, the argument of "carry when you think you'll need it maybe like in a bad part of town or something" might fly but since we never know who, what, when, or where anything like that can happen to us, it's only prudent to carry all the time and hope you never need it than to think you're not going to need a sidearm just this once only to find out that you do need it..AND NOW!!!:what:
 
I have had experiences with these people before and,,,,,

I have never had that type of problem before. I usually use the polite but asertive "man, I really don't have anything I can give you, sorry" response. That has always worked for me. Bad day or not, I use the polite approach first. No matter how meager or vagrant someone may seem, they're owed that much. Don't create a situation when there really was none. The guy was asking for a handout and not your wallet.

Robert
 
I had a similar incident not long ago. I was stopped at a RR crossing, and I saw a bum go to the vehicle in front of me. As a feelgood, I placed my revolver under my thigh, with my hand on it. Sure enough, he came to my car and started his speil. I told him "no", but he kept it up. I pulled up to avoid any further contact, but he started walking back up to my window, and beginning to act aggressive. Fortunately, a security officer from the business there came out and ran him off.

Was I scared? No. Annoyed? Yes. Threatened? Not yet. the possibilty was there, though, and it felt good to be prepared, and BETTER not to have had to take action.
 
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