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Thanks I'm not sure what I am going to get just yet, but I am looking into a .50.

Anyone seen one? Have one? Shot one? Any feedback on them? Thanks

The entire site is filled with like stories. Grievously wounded men continue to survive and fight. Sorry Cosmo, but your are ignoring too many factors of the desire to survive and fight that many men have. Read the stories and see how many of these men went on and on, never giving up.

Okay Cosmo, every person ever hit by a .30 FMJ instantly fell down and ceased any activity.... Needless to say, some people rely on hype and Hollywood to make their decisions on firearms and HD. :rolleyes:

Sir Ghalahad has it correct. You can go here to see that many, many people have taken such hits and have gone on to do spectacular things. http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/moh1.htm

I’m not trying to be rude here, but too many opinions seem to be based on Hollywood and not reality. Perhaps in a Rambo movie, but in reality it may not even knock the person down. Vests are designed to spread the impact over a large, flat area. Hence a lot of the energy is dissipated...

Actually, most wear/use the II or IIIA since that is generally considered "concealable" body armor. The III and IV are considered "tactical" and worn external vests over the uniform. Class IIIA will stop most all handgun rounds but not rifle rounds. to get protection from rifles you need to...

Sorry, but I cannot think of a worse way to train or a more suicidal attitude. Put distance between you the BG. Seek cover. There is no way you can "train" or prepare yourself for being shot, and such an attitude, is IMO dangerous. I have never entered into a lethal force situation...

These quotes belie the lack of understanding of terminal ballistics. You can look at paper all you want, but that will not tell you much. The defining parameters of a good SD bullet are in it’s terminal ballistics, not in paper ballistics. BTW, the carbine was designed in the post 1939...

I once covered a shooting where the vic had been shot in the buttoks with a .22lr. The round ended up in his chest cavity after severing his aorta. Needless to say it was a fatal. Still wouldn't rely on a .22 unless I absolutely had to.

According to the FBI Ammo Tests the .45 ACP 230gr. FMJ will penetrate about 33 inches of ballistic gelatin under the "HEavy Clothing" protocol. If you figure a 12" to 18" pentration on the initial taget, you still get over 15 inches of penetration. Figure it this way. Initial...

I spent several years at the academy as a firearms and tactics instructor as well as a couple of years doing the SWAT thing. Like most here have said, there were good, okay and lousy shots. We tried our best, but the most difficult thing was overcoming the attitude of many (should I say...

Depending upon when made they can be great or junk. S&W seems to have gone through several changes in ownership/production quality in the last 25 years or so and some of their stuff is worthless. Yet, you can find some excellent, servicable, reliable S&W.

No. it goes directly to proving that your claims are incorrect. See, this is a good example of the continued contradiction of what you say. Unfair but proves you correct. Once again, you are wrong. The cite goes directly to disproving what you stated and demonstrates that you are not...

BTW, an icepick demonstrates great penetration against a kevlar vest. Does that make it a great "caliber"?:rolleyes:

I guess we totally agree to disagree. So does that mean you are talking about penetration in the terminal ballistic sense, i.e. against human tissue? If so, then you are incorrect that velocity is the key. Agreed, and a bullet that is being driven at such a high velocity that it...

A small example, based on the FBI Handgun Ammunition Tests of 1989-1995 you have the following results FN 5.7X28mm 23.5gr., @ 2855fps Penetration: Bare gelatin = 9.40 inches Steel = 4.9 inches Auto glass = 0.7 inches .45ACP, 230gr., @ 837fps Penetration: Bare gelatin =...

Penetration of body armor is a specialized application. I took your discussion to be penetration in the terminal ballistic sense since that was what you were discussing an alluded to with this question †"What new caliber based on this theory would be a superior police and civilian round?“...

And a small caliber, light, fast moving bullet is PROVEN to be highly effective against hostile/angry/insane/healthy male human beings.

Sorry, but that is incorrect. A 5.56 penetrates less than many 9mm, that is why many SWAT units are using it for CQB/engry guns. Goes through a vest but will not over penetrate on flesh. Again, incorrect. The round in question is the 5.7x28mm SS190 and was designed to penetrate body armor...